60 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

Satan n stuff, on 07 January 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

Considering drop callers for Davion public groups usually specifically request assaults and lights for specific waves and the Battlemaster 1S is by far the most common IS mech in CW, you couldn't be more wrong.

OP stated the "anemic state of assaults," then recommended reducing drop tonnage. Are you arguing that that wouldn't reduce the number of assaults on the field?

[Wintersdark]

What really bothers me is how its "bad" for players to want to bring assaults, how for some reason players are expected to bring nothing but lights and mediums.

Variety isn't an answer. There will be common drop decks no matter what the maximum tonnage is (See: Clan drop decks that consist entirely of Arctic Cheetahs and Stormcrows) and that's natural.

But nobody is forced to use the full tonnage amount. Someone who loves running 4x lights/mediums always can. This only affects players who like Assaults, really, Heavies too IF the tonnage is very low.

Even at 255, I rarely brought assaults despite loving the class overall. Realistically I could have brought one, but I strongly dislike playing lights. So instead, I primarily brought some combination of Heavies and Mediums.

Which, in all honesty, seems a pretty reasonable set of mechs to bring for planetary conquest to me.

[Wintersdark]

Forcing 1/1/1/1 makes CW even harder to get into for a newer player, as well. While I do thing *new* players don't belong in CW (and trials should just not be allowed in drop decks), 1/1/1/1 basically forced a player to have 12 mechs to play in CW as opposed to 6 currently. That's a huge difference for a relatively newer player getting going with the game.

[Bud Crue]

Disagree with comment about Battlemaster's prevalence...at least in PUG drops...there all I seem to encounter are newer players in Stalkers and Atlas, with a few King Crabs thrown in. It has actually been kind of nice. I've had the opportunity to run some of my odd fatties without feeling like I am slowing or hurting the team. Alas, when I run with organized groups, we almost always go with "fast heavies"...not that I mind.

As to the points being made in re deck weights. I am in agreement with those who assert that lower deck weights are more desirable. I think a weight of around 225 would force players to learn a variety of mechs and then make tougher choices about what to bring on specific maps and for specific modes.
If I were in charge what I would prefer is variable or even random (within a range of say 200-300 tons) deck weights per match...of course with extra time (1 min is not enough) to re do your deck once the map and tonnage is known. Now THAT would force some variety.

Edited by Bud Crue, 07 January 2016 - 05:48 AM.

[Karl Marlow]

I like it how it is. I currently bring 4 heavies at 260 tons.

[jss78]

Lord Creston, on 06 January 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

I'd prefer:
You must have a mech from 3 different weight classes in your deck. This would limit any deck to a maximum of 2 of the same weight class.
Heavier pilots can favor 2xAssault, 1x Heavy, 1x Medium.
Lighter pilots can go 2xLight, 1xMedium, 1xHeavy.

That combined with a weight limit (like 280 tons) would have some good variety.

This sounds really good to me. Possibly I'd make it slightly less restrictive, and make it "no more than 2 mechs per weight class".

I'd still pair that with varying the max tonnage allowed though, to encourage people to live a little in terms of mech choice.

I think the current max. tonnage is just a bit high though, above 65 tons for the average mech just feels like too much. But simple reduction of max tonnage won't be sufficient, as then we'd still get some monotonic, stale meta like running all Blackjacks, which wouldn't be much of an improvement over the current Heavywarrior Online meta.

[Love in an Annihilator]

Maybe you should have several options:

• 240, no restrictions
  
• 2 assaults, 2 lights, no weight limit
  
• 1assault, 2 mediums, 1 light, no weight limit
  
• 1/1/1/1, no weight limit

Could bring more variety.

[sycocys]

Given the 1 game mode and the only way to drive up rewards (because they won't actually reconfigure the system) heavies and above only makes the most sense. It's a base assault, you probably wouldn't use many lights for that.

Now that being said I still say it would make far more sense to remove the respawn nonsense, reduce the drop weights and have at least 4 completely seperate drops that culminate with a one shot attempt at the current CW maps with advantages/disadvantages gained from the first 3 drops. It would just make for a far more interesting mode with some actual replay value.

[Lily from animove]

Mystere, on 06 January 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

Reduce the maximum drop weight, eliminate the minimum weight, and remove the 4-Mech hard limit by making it a maximum instead. If someone wants to bring only 3, and all locusts at that, I'm not going to stop them.

At the same time, have different drop weights for different planets. Heck, why not make the weight differential between opponents dependent on some criteria like distance to a capital or strategic planet? I really do not understand this obsession with "same here" "same there" "same everywhere". <smh>

great then we wil soon see the noobs having no idea drop with a single light.

Rick Sanchez 1895, on 07 January 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

Maybe you should have several options:

• 240, no restrictions
  
• 2 assaults, 2 lights, no weight limit
  
• 1assault, 2 mediums, 1 light, no weight limit
  
• 1/1/1/1, no weight limit

Could bring more variety.

this would be so meta friendly, LOL

2A 2L on clanside means 2DWF 2 ACH.

1A 2M 1L means DWF, SCR, SCR, ACH.

the clans own chassis imbalance paired with their best mechs in each weightclass also being the heaviest of that weight class just destroy most variety of choice.

More interesting would be a dynamic "in war choice" system. 240 tons available, up to 4 mechs, but you can only choose the initial mech and then choose a mech of your hangar when this one is dead. This way people coul react more dynmicaly to the needs of the battlefield. Given they have the mechs available. But that would probably also cater too much to veterans over newbies who already have a laod of mechs in their hangars ready to be chosen from.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 January 2016 - 06:56 AM.

[sycocys]

Lily from animove, on 07 January 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

great then we wil soon see the noobs having no idea drop with a single light.

That is true, but if they keep with the 1 deck 1 match system - it could add an interesting layer of strategy and risk vs reward for vets IF there was a feasible way to lock it out until a certain requirement is met (like 100 CW drops or something).

[Love in an Annihilator]

Lily from animove, on 07 January 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

great then we wil soon see the noobs having no idea drop with a single light.



this would be so meta friendly, LOL

2A 2L on clanside means 2DWF 2 ACH.

1A 2M 1L means DWF, SCR, SCR, ACH.

the clans own chassis imbalance paired with their best mechs in each weightclass also being the heaviest of that weight class just destroy most variety of choice.

More interesting would be a dynamic "in war choice" system. 240 tons available, up to 4 mechs, but you can only choose the initial mech and then choose a mech of your hangar when this one is dead. This way people coul react more dynmicaly to the needs of the battlefield. Given they have the mechs available. But that would probably also cater too much to veterans over newbies who already have a laod of mechs in their hangars ready to be chosen from.

And you think (2DWF + 2ARC) or (DWF + 2SCR + ARC) is superior to 240tons?

It would be something different, that's all.

I'd still prefer (TBR + 2HBR + ARC) or (3HBR + SCA), in most scenarios.

In any case, it's just a suggestion to do something other than provide a strict weight limit.

[Mystere]

Lily from animove, on 07 January 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

great then we wil soon see the noobs having no idea drop with a single light.

That's a player education and training issue. A properly designed UI with the proper notification can also take care of that. It's not rocket science.

[Mystere]

AssaultPig, on 07 January 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:

I would like to see them go back to 230 or 240, with a slight tonnage edge for IS maybe. The current 'bring four heavies' dominant style of deck is pretty blah.

This was recently brought to my attention in relation to testing 10 Clan vs. 12 IS:

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

uhm it was opened several times on the testing server.
I personally have approximately 50 or so drops in that format.

IIRC the IS win rate through those tests were up over 80%

They did this 3-4 times and every time it was the same result. Clans were stomped relentlessly

Holy Cannoli! The Clans were stomped relentlessly.

If true, I think the Clans are the ones that need buffing more so now than ever.

[Wolfways]

Tyler Valentine, on 06 January 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

It only forces two, and just taking an assault each drop and saying it's because you're an "assault pilot" seems lazy and uninspired to me. Take one assault and be forced to pay for it with a med and a couple lights or go with heavies and mediums. This take an Atlas and 3 medium/heavies thing seems too easy.

It's "lazy and uninspired" to play the mechs you like?
I don't like speedboat online so pgi already forces me to have 3 mechs i like and a "suicide" light (not actually suicide but I just can't force myself to care if I do well in it).

[Sandpit]

Russ stated yesterday on Twitter that these aren't permanent. They're just adjusting and testing

[Almond Brown]

Mystere, on 06 January 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

Reduce the maximum drop weight, eliminate the minimum weight, and remove the 4-Mech hard limit by making it a maximum instead. If someone wants to bring only 3, and all locusts at that, I'm not going to stop them.

stuff

Can you imagine the RAGE and QQ that would erupt on CW when (new) Players started dropping with only 2 or 3 Locusts in their Drop Kit...

Well OK. I concur. I would also allow it but with a caveat. ONLY if those Drop Decks could only EVER be on the OTHER Team...

[Mystere]

Almond Brown, on 07 January 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

Can you imagine the RAGE and QQ that would erupt on CW when (new) Players started dropping with only 2 or 3 Locusts in their Drop Kit...

Well OK. I concur. I would also allow it but with a caveat. ONLY if those Drop Decks could only EVER be on the OTHER Team...

Mystere, on 07 January 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

That's a player education and training issue. A properly designed UI with the proper notification can also take care of that. It's not rocket science.

[Khobai]

Quote

I would like to see them go back to 230 or 240, with a slight tonnage edge for IS maybe. The current 'bring four heavies' dominant style of deck is pretty blah.

I wouldnt mind 240 drop limit if a 100 ton assault was ~50% better than a 65 ton heavy

But its stupid that a 100 ton assault is actually worse than 65 ton heavy most of the time

[Tarl Cabot]

Sandpit, on 07 January 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Russ stated yesterday on Twitter that these aren't permanent. They're just adjusting and testing

It should be setup to be rotating every 2-3 weeks, from a low 230-240 to 250-260, etc.

[Sandpit]

Tarl Cabot, on 07 January 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

It should be setup to be rotating every 2-3 weeks, from a low 230-240 to 250-260, etc.

I wouldn't mind something like that

Anything to keep it from getting stagnant.