62 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Homeskilit, on 07 January 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

Lol right? If your getting Lrm'd to death, odds are it is because of a UAV, but no one ever seems to look up.

You don't even need to look up if you are the dummy sniper back 1k+ meters, you can see the entire sky unless you are looking at a wall or the ground.

[Homeskilit]

sycocys, on 07 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

You don't even need to look up if you are the dummy sniper back 1k+ meters, you can see the entire sky unless you are looking at a wall or the ground.

Touche

[SQW]

I'm seeing a lot of gripes about my pt 4.

Here's the thing: I never said charge out on your own to brawl. Always flank if you can and if your team isn't full of pub snipers or vet PSRers, then your damn well SHOULD charge in to coincide with your team's flankers. And the rest of the team better follow you as well.

This isn't the Omaha beach were one shot will end you. You can last 2-3 hits (more if you torso twist) and even if you die, the team mates who are definitely following behind would also likely take out one of theirs too. All I hear from the detractors is "Oh, but I will die if I leave my safe corner." This is the type of thinking that turns an ASSAULT (it's in the name!) mech into a turret.

Here's one from my game two nights ago: my team vs a sniper gun line. Half of the team was ready on flank, the other half got as close as possible out of view. On queue, I charged in with my Griffin (our Assaults went flanking and I was the heaviest left) into their whole team. Got cored in 6 seconds. But in those 6 seconds, every one of the Reds turned to face me exposing their side/back as the rest of team piled in. Score was 12-4. I got the 2nd lowest game score but it felt great. Not all games will have situations like this but it just shows how weak peek a boo is to a moderately coordinated team.

Oh, just to clarify, this only applies to quick starts. CW is another kettle of fish. Some say the snipers are mostly vets. Unless vets are using the trial KGC and DWFs, I say a there are lots of new guys who just want the biggest toy but don't really know how best to use the tonnage.

[Trauglodyte]

Coward sniping is what you're talking about and that is namely done by the flocks (pun) of douche Ravens. I've been gone over a year and in the week and a half that I've been back, the only thing that has really changes is the addition of a bunch of new mechs. Still, every game there is at least one, if not a lot more, Raven pilot cruising around with double ER Lrg Lasers. Why is that? Because ECM is hard as balls to see at range, they're small, and ER Lrg Lasers are too freaking heat efficient - how you go from 12 heat in table top to 9 here is beyond me. Once poptarting got hammered and PPCs in general took it on the chin, it was simply natural progression for people to gravitate to the next easiest thing. With ER Lrg Lasers, you don't even need to be a good shot because you can splatter at extreme range. I was sitting up on the extreme back side ridge in River City tonight popping people at the citadel. Not for practical damage but it was enough to cause them to move.

The kicker is that doing what you term as peek-a-boo is easy to do. LRMs are hard. Using PPCs is hard. Gauss Rifles are hard and take too long to recharge. And al three of those weapons come with bad down sides, either in restricted range, velocity issues, or just down right weird clunkyness. Sitting the way back blasting away with lasers is easy, requires no ammo, and is just as good within 90m as it is at 700m and beyond.

[LordBraxton]

SQW, on 07 January 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

snip

OP. I totally feel your pain. But youre barking up the wrong tree. My earlier post really says it all.

Ive been flamed on this forum before for bashing 'sniper' gameplay, and its selfish nature. However, i was just in denial. Brawling is dead.

Brawling. Is. Dead.

I played ~500 matches in the middle of this year with an Executioner, and managed a solid kdr and damage profile while still playing like a berzerker... but after the side torso and heat nerfs to clans, its now a solid mech but it cant quite go crazy like it used to. Even then, brawling was a 10-20 second orgasm after 3-8 minutes of carefully poking and positioning. Sometimes you go on a roll and slaughter 4-7 mechs in 40 seconds. But not often.

Back in the golden age of closed beta, brawling was king and could last for minutes at a time. The window of efficient infighting has steadily gone down. First when my Heavy Metal started outperforming DDCs within 200 meters... Then later with laser vomit and the clan Armageddon. At this point brawling is dead, and the Executioner I roll with is less of a brawler, and more of what might be labeled an assassin, as it is designed to kill in seconds with 6SPL and a UAC20 double tap to somebody's XL engine.

People will talk about 'brawling' when they really mean corner poking at 200 meters will a pulse laser battery. That's not brawling. Brawling is prolonged mech fisticuffs, while multiple mechs twist like crazy and shred each other's armor piece by piece.

Today, a 'brawler' is simply a shorter ranged mech that can rip a side torso off in ~2 alphas.

Youre dealing with the same frustrations that have driven me farther and farther away from MWO.

Lightning fast TTK is NOT fun. Id rather play a tank game than MWO at this point. There is little difference.

Edited by LordBraxton, 07 January 2016 - 07:11 PM.

[WarPickle]

Ughhh I feel like I was hit with a stupid stick reading the OP.....

Learn the game before you tell everyone how to play.. not every heavy and assault are brawlers.... there are roles within the classes.. light, medium, heavy, assault... are just that classes not roles..

Damn I need therapy now from reading that garbage... you'll die quicker using cover than charging the enemy.... are you for real.. have you played this game?

[SQW]

Trauglodyte, on 07 January 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

Coward sniping is what you're talking about and that is namely done by the flocks (pun) of douche Ravens.

It's one of the stock Trial Raven and with set up like 2ERLs and ECM on a light, you can't do much BUT snipe. Sniping harassment is fine to me. As frustrated as i get, it just meant the Raven pilot is doing his/her job. I'm more angry if all our own lights are busy running around chasing glory and no one's screening our own back line.

I do learn most Peep a boo players react on instinct to back off so whenever I see a Raven stick out of a corner at 500+m, I chain fire a steady stream of MLasers at it. 80% of the time they duck back without firing a shot even though green laser does no damage at that range. Yes, you can say they are backing off after being spotted but without even shooting at least once?

[SQW]

BasicInfantry, on 07 January 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

Ughhh I feel like I was hit with a stupid stick reading the OP.....

Learn the game before you tell everyone how to play.. not every heavy and assault are brawlers.... there are roles within the classes.. light, medium, heavy, assault... are just that classes not roles..

Damn I need therapy now from reading that garbage... you'll die quicker using cover than charging the enemy.... are you for real.. have you played this game?

And I lose faith in humanity when people like you reads half of my post and immediate came to the wrong conclusion. I said CHARGE to coincide with a flank and only charge as a group. You and a few higher up posters must all be lone wolves if you think when I advocate basic unit tactics, it applies to just one mech. I'm not asking to risk your mech in a solo charge princess but your cover hugging does paint your arse with a bulls eye for any team that flanks.

You might think you are smart config your mech with long range weapon that other might not be able to shoot back at you but only idiots or someone who's equally well equipped will play your own game of peek a boo.

[GrimRiver]

I think the SHC ppc poptarting is the worst, ran into 3 of them in last match and they wiped our assaults is seconds.

[Commander A9]

What's the problem?

It's what you do in armored warfare; bound up, fire, bound back down. Sames as you do on legs now.

You don't like it? Flank him. Fire upon the hill to keep his head down. Force him to move.

Done.

[Aiden Skye]

What the hell is those poorly written thread about? In any case I think this deservers a

[Krivvan]

To the OP: You are wrong.

If the entire team is focused on poking, then it very much is the right thing to do. It's only when your team is going for a push that you shouldn't be poking. Otherwise, yes, please poke, don't just stand there.

[Krivvan]

Trauglodyte, on 07 January 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

Coward sniping is what you're talking about and that is namely done by the flocks (pun) of douche Ravens. I've been gone over a year and in the week and a half that I've been back, the only thing that has really changes is the addition of a bunch of new mechs. Still, every game there is at least one, if not a lot more, Raven pilot cruising around with double ER Lrg Lasers.

One: Good ERLL Ravens don't use ECM since the Raven 4X and 2X have better bonuses for ERLL. ECM isn't important enough.

Two: That's exactly what those Ravens should be doing and it's a good thing. Granted, if they can get alternative shots that force enemies to turn or move, then that's the optimal thing that they should be doing.

Poking and not taking real damage but taking attention is 100% what those Light mechs should be doing.

[Soultraxx]

When Im in an assault I have no choice but to snipe as invariably everyone else has Nascar'd off, so shooting from a distance is my only option as I follow along at the back like an abandoned puppy.

[The Lost Boy]

Yes, you know who you are - especially the heavy and assault mechs configure for 'long distance' who are just closet turrets.

I guess because ducking around corners/crates and firing off a few pot shots or iron-sight snipe has been so ingrained in FPS, it's inevitable these 'skills' are carried into MWO.

DON'T.

STOP RIGHT THERE!!!!!!

Look dbag op. NO ONE, has ANY right to tell ANYONE else how to play, or enjoy MWO as long as they dont violate a TOS. You may not like it, it may be flawed strategy, whatever.

YOU play your way. And STOP trying to take the fun from others.

[Lykaon]

sycocys, on 07 January 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Most of the snipers aren't new players, they are vets trying to get everyone else to sacrifice their armor while they score PSR passable damage then blame the loss on everyone they sacrificed while hiding for 3/4ths of the match.

If by "sniper" you mean anyone playing the hidey pokey style of combat than I am going to call B.S. on this claim that "Most of the snipers aren't new players"

I am going to say that Most of the players are this type of combatant at least in the solo queue.

There is a distinct lack of trust in the solo queue and getting players to support a push is nearing on impossible. I frequently get frustrated by solo puggers for this lack in confidence. When someone decides to call a drop and they order a push YOU BETTER PUSH. and I mean all available mechs.

Here is what happens when most of the team lingers in cover instead of aggressivley persuing an attack. Every second your team sits in place is a second that is given to the opposing team to formulate a response to your tactics. Sit in one spot to long and the enemy may just decide to flank you.

Here is what happens when you aggressivley attack. Your team advances towards the enemy enmass presenting numberous potential targets.If there is no one on the enemy team calling focus targets (highly likely in the solo queue) the enemy will not likely be capable of focusing your team mates down one by one.Instead a few of the vanguard mechs take damage on the approach and maybe a couple are crippled or destroyed. The rest of your team has displaced the enemy from their comfort zone and removed the option of playing hidey pokey. Your team has dictated the terms of the battle.Your team has dictated the battle will happen NOW and will occur in their FACE and on your teams terms.The enemy is left with split seconds to formulate a reaction to being suddenly pushed out of cover and engaged.You have created a great deal of psycological pressure.They wanted to sit back and poke but your team says NOPE it's a brawl and it's happening now.

And here are some rookie mistakes when it comes to pushing and assault.

Stopping when the enemy is visable and immediatley returning to hidey pokey combat. This is not an assault or a push it's simply changing he possition you perform the same tired old tactic.

Stopping the moment you see a target and begin shooting even when you are blocking other friendly mechs from advancing or engaging.

Not advancing far enough. The idea is to create enough space for other friendlies to follow in behind you and create a situation where more of your team is shooting at less of their team. By stopping to soon you may limit the available lanes of fire and prevent your team from reaching the desired result.

Failing to focus damage on the same target as other team mates or failing to remain on target and switching targets to frequently.

Taking to much damage "on the chin" as you advance. If you are not currently shooting you should be twisting to spread damage out on your mech. if you just pulled the trigger and will have 4 seconds of weapon cooldown DO NOT keep your CT facing the enemy. Do not stop moving. Spread damage as much as possible to increase your survival time under fire.

[dario03]

Krivvan, on 07 January 2016 - 11:03 PM, said:

One: Good ERLL Ravens don't use ECM since the Raven 4X and 2X have better bonuses for ERLL. ECM isn't important enough.

Two: That's exactly what those Ravens should be doing and it's a good thing. Granted, if they can get alternative shots that force enemies to turn or move, then that's the optimal thing that they should be doing.

Poking and not taking real damage but taking attention is 100% what those Light mechs should be doing.

It amazes me that so many people don't get that. I can't tell you how many times I have had somebody complain that I'm not helping my CW team because I was at distance (sometimes not even much really (800-1000m)) shooting at long range. Even though I have ~4 mechs shooting at me and I'm winning the exchanges. Meanwhile half of my team will be ~250m from the enemy but will be putting out almost no damage because they are to busy hiding behind a wall or each other.
I've even explained what I was doing a few times but it doesn't help. I can top damage and kills and kills+assists but they will just say I only did because I wasn't helping the team. Funny thing is my 3 other mechs are usually brawlers and mid-rangers that were at the front of every push. But I think they figure I'm lying about that, since anybody that snipes at any time must be the most selfish person in the Inner Sphere...

Edited by dario03, 08 January 2016 - 02:38 AM.

[Valdherre Tor]

ehem! dual erll raven with a wopping 19pt alpha I remember running that build back in 2014. Have you tried tripple cerll hellbringer?

[Lily from animove]

sycocys, on 07 January 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Most of the snipers aren't new players, they are vets trying to get everyone else to sacrifice their armor while they score PSR passable damage then blame the loss on everyone they sacrificed while hiding for 3/4ths of the match.

sad truth. But hey mediums are so nice tanks it's bets to send them in first.

[Random Carnage]

SQW, on 07 January 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

team mates who are definitely following behind...

Not sure what drops you're getting but I can tell you from a dedicated Dire pilot in PuGlandia, this very rarely happens. I read your OP, but as soon as I read point 4, meh. That right there told me you've never been a Dire pilot in any meaningful capacity.

My 110 odd points of CT can get vaped in 1 second flat as soon as I break from cover (at 52 kph), because everything looking my way can hit my CT with everything they've got. Faster mechs tend to have an easier time of it because much of the incoming fire either misses them, or what partial damage that does hit gets spread across multiple locations.

For a 100 tonner to be up close and leading a "charge", an Atlas may get away with it, but not a Dire. A Dire is fire support, not a tank. The ones leading any charge should be fast heavies and mediums, allowing the 100 tonners the time and space to use their fire power without getting murdered immediately.

I'm far to jaded to have any faith in PuG's these days. Every drop is pretty much each mech for themselves, in whatever capacity works for each player.