62 replies to this topic

[DrxAbstract]

Aresye Kerensky, on 07 January 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

Tis true, but let's not kid ourselves here, the rest of the team isn't usually going to win the match.

Ehhh... Hmm...

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You might have 1-2 solid vets on each side per game, and they're going to not only do a ton of damage, but they're going to be doing effective damage, either by coring mechs to the point they're 1 shot away from dying, or stripping one-sided mechs of their important weapons.

That may or may not be why whenever I leave cover with the team, whether it's 3 people with me or 11, I'm still getting shot at by the majority of the firepower that can see us regardless of what Mech I'm in. Fairly annoying, actually.

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For example, if I'm playing CW and I end up facing Fission from EmP playing with a bunch of pugs, my #1 priority for that game is to take him out ASAP, while his priority would be to take ME out ASAP.

We'll let the team soak the majority of the damage, but we're definitely not hiding 3/4 of the match. That's a surefire way to lose, and we don't like losing. We're just not stupid enough to put ourselves out in front, because if we go down early, 99% of the time that means game over for the team (at least in solo queue and solo CW).

Going out in front, no, definitely not good... But is that really your priority - To take out their 'best' player first? I mean the only reason they're a 'threat', if you could call it that, is they have 44 other Mechs to stand on that gives them the power to do anything. A vet's biggest asset and weakest link is their team. If I had the opportunity to kill a vet over 3+ of his teammates that, comparably, pose less of a damage hazard and would be easier to dispatch, I'd take out his teammates and go from there. A 'vet' without legs to hold him up is just another guy dropping in his last Mechs alone, surrounded by a rather hostile enemy team. My priority would be wiping out his teammates while keeping mine alive.

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Yes, this is an elitist viewpoint, and I likely sound like a douche saying it, but if 3/4 of my team could actually pull their weight and do fine without me, I wouldn't need to play conservatively.

The whole 'wolf among sheep' feeling kinda sucks, doesn't it. Eat your wheaties, grab your big boy Mech and don't forget to wear the extra long coattails--them broad shoulders have work to do.

[Trauglodyte]

Krivvan, on 07 January 2016 - 11:03 PM, said:

One: Good ERLL Ravens don't use ECM since the Raven 4X and 2X have better bonuses for ERLL. ECM isn't important enough.

Two: That's exactly what those Ravens should be doing and it's a good thing. Granted, if they can get alternative shots that force enemies to turn or move, then that's the optimal thing that they should be doing.

Poking and not taking real damage but taking attention is 100% what those Light mechs should be doing.

Well, given that I've been gone for a year, I'm still catching up on the perks additions and some of the mech changes. Having two variants come with Lrg Lasers and perks to support them would explain what I've been seeing.

[Lensman Prime]

Navid A1, on 07 January 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

One of my unit members runs sniper assaults exclusively... you won't believe the things we can often achieve with one sniper watching over the place we choose to brawl.

Yeah, a sniper in god mode overwatch is pretty valuable....

[Satan n stuff]

sycocys, on 07 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

You don't even need to look up if you are the dummy sniper back 1k+ meters, you can see the entire sky unless you are looking at a wall or the ground.

You'd be surprised how many snipers can't hit a UAV at that range. It's usually because they don't have advanced zoom.

[Yosharian]

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1. Picture a 6v6 scenario. On one side, the mechs are poking their heads out to snipe a few at a time while the other side marches forward line as a unit. Which side can bring the most damage onto a single target?

Cos of course all MWO games are like that

Edited by Yosharian, 08 January 2016 - 02:26 PM.

[KHETTI]

wow, so using cover and your weapons in an intelligent manner is now wrong, jeez, who thunk it, i play like a boring noob!.

[Yosharian]

KHETTI, on 08 January 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

wow, so using cover and your weapons in an intelligent manner is now wrong, jeez, who thunk it, i play like a boring noob!.

No no you have to push and tank, that's what all assaults are for. Some guy told me earlier that when I'm in a Dire I should push and tank - that's my job.

[KHETTI]

Yosharian, on 08 January 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

No no you have to push and tank, that's what all assaults are for. Some guy told me earlier that when I'm in a Dire I should push and tank - that's my job.

What! even in an XL400 Wumaster! My mind is blown!.

[Rokuzachi]

Yea ppl c'mon man up and be manly men with your assaults and charge into the enemy deflecting their lasers with your bristling chest hair and as you grow closer you're sure to force them to back down with your blazing aura of testosterone.

[Michael Abt]

Odd, my observations are very different compared to those of some of the posters here. Usually peek- a-poo snipers fail to make a worthy contribution to the general result. No, they do not weaken enemies so much that brawlers just rack up the kills, it is vice versa - brawlers do all the work and those vultures get the kills. Seriously, how often did you see a brawler as last man standing of your team and how often snipers with >80% armor as last mech, finishing off enemies?

Each hidden peek-a-poo sniper means more focus fire for the rest of the team, and that means increased chance of the domino effect. What makes it worse that several snipers think they are such great sharpshooters that they are able to shoot into a brawl without hitting friendly units. If your job is to supress enemy snipers why am i losing back armor when only friendly units are behind me? It is so much ´fun´ getting the back cored from dual gauss because your snipers wanted to get the kill.

Furthermore, players complain about lrm boats, and the general advice for them is to somewhat stick to the team for various reasons including additional target for spreading damage, but for snipers it is ok to hide several hundred meters away for the entire battle why?

Anyhow, i adjusted my playstyle to reckless solo flanking with primary mission to take out enemy peek-a-boo snipers, and my AC20 gets my point across.

Sometimes i wonder about odd stuff, though. Why don't those snipers just run a 100STD when turret is all they play? And do they use some kind of module which allows them to run backwards faster than forward? And why are they faster when they are legged? Questions, questions.

/rant off

[VinJade]

wanna stop this type of fight? make it a negative hit to the PSR as they are trying to conserve it by staying as far away as they can from actual combat while the rest of their team does all the heavy lifting.

I now own a Stalker, sure it's a missile support unit but I have Ranged energy weapons(ER PPCs) that allow me to fight back and still wade into the middle of the fight to try and ease some of the pressure off my unit(even if it is only a few moment) even if my ammunition isn't gone..

Snipers in the end are cowards as they don't want to fight with the rest of us and only forced in direct combat when another unit gets close enough to take them out.

had a sniper on my side a few times who whined that it was us that lost the match for him and throwing the slur noob all over the place when it was his fault for not helping the rest of the unit out.

Edited by VinJade, 08 January 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[BD RAIDR]

I think the biggest hole in the OP is that it is being addressed to public queue.

In public queue you don't know who you'll be dropping with, whether or not they are experienced/skilled, and what mech/loadout they will be bringing and how they'll be using it. Also, in my experience communication is sparse in public queue, and few people read the minimap and think the same thing. In other words, there's very little team coordination.

My friendly advice is, use public queue to master your mechs, play how you like, have fun and don't worry about what happens in the matches so much. Then once your mech is mastered, play in the group queue or CW with people that you like playing with and work/coordinate well with.

Edited by F6Pete, 08 January 2016 - 08:17 PM.

[Rhent]

It really depends on the map. If I'm in an assault and I get the **** drop for Frozen City, instead of going up the path to be ***** by the lights, I'll take the path around the lower canyon and then wait 20 seconds and start with the back kills. I normally can get 1 to 2 quick back kills and then they storm me, by then they've lost 2 mech and taken 550+ damage and turned their backs to my team. Most of the time, people don't peek over the cliff, because who would be stupid enough to take that approach? Many a Dragon has made that mistake.

[SQW]

F6Pete, on 08 January 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

I think the biggest hole in the OP is that it is being addressed to public queue.

Er...I DID say my post was aimed at Pub queue and for the benefit of new players who are trying to play MWO like a FPS. Heck, when I first started, I was doing the same peek a boo because most of the players were doing the same thing.

I find CW has even lower skill ceiling (team wise) than pub queue. Either you are in a pre-made team that stomps a pub team or you get rolled in which case the map design/objective is so limited you can't really turn the tide.

[BD RAIDR]

I guess I just see public queue as too unorganized and uncoordinated to ever get much better, even if we make constructive posts such as yours, SQW.

[SQW]

KHETTI, on 08 January 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

wow, so using cover and your weapons in an intelligent manner is now wrong, jeez, who thunk it, i play like a boring noob!.

Sigh.

When you duck out of the way 'intelligently', you removed yourself from your team's fire power and at the same time, allow the other team to concentrate their fire power on your team mates that are actually shooting.

One or two snipers IS deadly but not if half of the team choose to peek a boo and the VAST majority these 'snipers' are just thinking of themselves when choosing to play this way. In a team fight, sometimes it IS better to get shot at because it spread the damage across all 12 mechs. Remember my 4th point? That's the difference between FPS and MWO - the former is one-shot-kill so *** saving is better for your team while the latter is about combined damage threshold where cumulative damage usually wins out over individual survival.

In a pub queue, sometimes you don't get to pick what role you want to play - sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and put your gauss DWF to tank the shots that may have killed your medium team mate. A true vet should be able to adapt to different scenarios instead of just being good at sniping 600+ dmg but require situation to be just right.





I said SOMETIMES! Idiots who think this is me telling them to march out in the open every time needs to go back to school.

[Homeskilit]

SQW, on 09 January 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

I said SOMETIMES! Idiots who think this is me telling them to march out in the open every time needs to go back to school.

Welcome to the MWO forums, everything you say will be taken to the extreme (especially by those who disagree with you).

Edited by Homeskilit, 09 January 2016 - 01:26 AM.

[SQW]

F6Pete, on 09 January 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

I guess I just see public queue as too unorganized and uncoordinated to ever get much better, even if we make constructive posts such as yours, SQW.

Yes, but pub queue has also given me some of the best matches too - someone has to tell the new guys (or even some suborn vets) how to play MWO like 3 lances of mechs instead of 12 one-shot-and-i-am-dead soldiers. I've always thought of myself as a good team player but chancing upon the Tactic 101 comics in the forum showed me just how much better matches can be if all of us are just a little more aware of the options available other than BANZAI or spent the entire match peeking over a hill.

I'll be content if my post can convince a few new guys to have a long 2nd thought (instead of knee jerk like some above) about how they play MWO.

[Jalen]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the obvious underlying root of the problem:

The game doesn't reward you for tanking or brawling. So if you can last most of the round by hiding and peeking out for shots, you can probably do enough damage to think you're doing well, move up a tier or two, and blame the losses on your teammates for not covering you.

You're also not rewarded for suppressing fire, so that sniper in the back isn't trying to keep anyone from shooting at his teammates, he's just out to do as much damage while taking the least amount of damage, which he is rewarded for.

I'm definitely not saying it's right, but it's part of the reason it happens.

You also can't explain to them that high damage doesn't mean much if they're not getting the kills or assists when they're rewarded for high damage matches with no kills or assists.

[Scar Glamour]

OP seems to have never tried Gauss+PPC+TC DWF. It can still alpha Mechs down with alarming speed and from alarming range even though both PPC and Gauss have been nerfed to ground.