238 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

Hiding to protect your kdr, while you have weapons, and hiding will not net you a win through points is against the Terms. Everyone on the forums knows this, but most in game do not. This should be one of those little messages during the loading screen. Or possibly an automatically generated message if you get too many AFK reports. Your team sucked, get over it and move on.

Edit: The "what if warriors" are out in force.

If you have a plan to win/tie a match, by kills or points, and execute that plan, even if it includes powering down for 10 minutes to spread out the enemy and possibly never taking a shot, then by all means do it, it's not against any current rules.

It's pretty obvious when a player is trying and when he's a butthurt troll. If you can't tell that difference, you should probably stick to Candy Crush.

If you're the last mech on skirmish with no weapons and there's no way to hide for a draw, try to get a kill by ramming and move on to the next match. Hiding for the rest of the match is thankfully now prohibited.

Edited by adamts01, 09 January 2016 - 10:35 PM.

[Warblood]

IMHO.. dont really care as long as they dont do it in skirmish. In conquest it could net them a win and in assault ill just cap then an win. so yea just dont do it in skirmish.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Warblood, on 07 January 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

IMHO.. dont really care as long as they dont do it in skirmish. In conquest it could net them a win and in assault ill just cap then an win. so yea just dont do it in skirmish.

It's in fact WHY there wasn't skirmish at release. But people kept whining about people doing the objective and then we got skirmish so yay...

[Accused]

I'll remind my team hiding is against the TOS next time they cower behind a building.

[MrMadguy]

Warblood, on 07 January 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

IMHO.. dont really care as long as they dont do it in skirmish. In conquest it could net them a win and in assault ill just cap then an win. so yea just dont do it in skirmish.

No. Assault is problem too. Enemy team tried to cap our base - 50% was capped. We successfully defended it. I in my King Crab was left 1vs1 against only one 'Mech left at their side - Firecheater. First he tried to use his invulnerability to defeat me - he was running from me around the base for several minutes. Then, when after losing both arms he realized, that it wouldn't work - he simply ran away and hid. I was unable to both chaise him or cap their base, cuz he had speed advantage. So he simply caused running out time. He lost, but has chosen to preserve his K/D. We told him about new COC, but he ignored it.

Ok. It can be treated as tie. 1vs1 - both refuse to lose. But I think, that the fact, that faster 'Mechs has so big advantage - is unfair. He can avoid combat to preserve his K/D and run out time and I can't. And as this advantage is unfair - it should not be abused. He still had lasers left in CT. He knew, that I was unable to cap their base. But he has hidden anyway. He deserved his report for non-participation.

[Baelfire]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

Ok. It can be treated as tie. 1vs1 - both refuse to lose.

Pretty much this.

He did not act because he did not want to lose the game and you did exactly the same. If he deserved a report then you deserved one as well.

[Rushin Roulette]

adamts01, on 07 January 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

Hiding to protect your kdr, while you have weapons, and hiding win not net you a win through points is against the Terms. Everyone on the forums knows this, but most in game do not. This should be one of those little messages during the loading screen. Or possibly an automatically generated message if you get too many AFK reports. Your team sucked, get over it and move on.

Link or it didnt happen. Please post proof that hiding to protect your KD ratio is against the ToS or you are like all the others before you spewing this "everyone knows"-BS.

Hint, once you find "Proof" Ill post my proof with a link to a PGI Staff member saying otherwise.

P. S. I have never hidden to protect anything. If the match goes lopsided and Im the last one Ill happily suicide quickly to get into the next match... but I wont whine and post if someone else does differently. I may hide for a short time to get a good backshot in before going down though

[adamts01]

Rushin Roulette, on 08 January 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

Link or it didnt happen. Please post proof that hiding to protect your KD ratio is against the ToS or you are like all the others before you spewing this "everyone knows"-BS.

Hint, once you find "Proof" Ill post my proof with a link to a PGI Staff member saying otherwise.

P. S. I have never hidden to protect anything. If the match goes lopsided and Im the last one Ill happily suicide quickly to get into the next match... but I wont whine and post if someone else does differently. I may hide for a short time to get a good backshot in before going down though

You are exactly the type of person who needs to hear this.
https://mwomercs.com/conduct
[color=#EEEEEE]Disliking a map or game mode or attempting to preserve a player statistic such as Kill/Death Ratio are not acceptable excuses for non-participation.[/color]

[MrMadguy]

Baelfire, on 08 January 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

Pretty much this.

He did not act because he did not want to lose the game and you did exactly the same. If he deserved a report then you deserved one as well.

Assault still has two win conditions - cap a base and kill all 'Mechs. If some player refuses to follow both of them - he should be treated as non-participating. I didn't want to cap, yes, but wanted to kill him. I was unable to do it only due to my speed limitation. He refused to do both - he was simply waiting for time to run out.

That's why sometimes I regret, that I smart enough not to react on Light-trolling - i.e. not to focus Light 'Mech and destroy his teammates (Executioner, Marauder and Atlas in this case) first. Focus cheating invulnerable Light, it takes ages to destroy - and his teammates will kill you. But if you leave him as last 'Mech standing - he'll exploit his unfair speed advantage and will try to waste your time. And Light pilots are abusing this situation. That's why I hated Assault and Conquest and played Skirmish only, when we were able to choose game modes. Being invulnerable - is unfair enough advantage for Lights. Capping advantage - is a little more excessive for them in this situation.

Edited by MrMadguy, 08 January 2016 - 03:09 AM.

[spectralthundr]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 08 January 2016 - 12:02 AM, said:

It's in fact WHY there wasn't skirmish at release. But people kept whining about people doing the objective and then we got skirmish so yay...

I don't mind skirmish really. I'm in the game to shoot mechs, not sit in box outlines.

[WarPickle]

Rushin Roulette, on 08 January 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

Link or it didnt happen. Please post proof that hiding to protect your KD ratio is against the ToS or you are like all the others before you spewing this "everyone knows"-BS.

Hint, once you find "Proof" Ill post my proof with a link to a PGI Staff member saying otherwise.

P. S. I have never hidden to protect anything. If the match goes lopsided and Im the last one Ill happily suicide quickly to get into the next match... but I wont whine and post if someone else does differently. I may hide for a short time to get a good backshot in before going down though

NON-PARTICIPATION

[color=#EEEEEE]
Out of all the Code of Conduct guidelines, the interpretation of what constitutes non-participation is probably the most commonly debated.[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
The purpose of the information below is to clarify our policies on non-participation, and to outline what can be classified as non-participation.[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
Going AFK (away from keyboard)[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
The absence of even one player in a match can directly impact the playing experience and level of enjoyment for all other players in that match. Pressing the ‘Play Now’ button to search for a match should be seen as an unspoken commitment to those all other players who will be placed into the same match.[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
We completely understand that life goes on regardless of your participation in a game, but walking away from the computer or alt+tabbing out to browse the internet after initiating a match and not returning in time to provide meaningful assistance to your teammates are considered acts of non-participation.[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
Shutting Down your ‘Mech or avoiding engagements with the enemy, and when doing so might be considered non-participation[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
All pilots have access to a Shutdown command for their ‘Mechs, mapped by default to the ‘P’ key and listed as ‘Toggle Power’ in the keyboard menu.[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
The primary benefit to shutting down your ‘Mech is that it will no longer appear on enemy radar. In the deciding moments of a close match with few ‘Mechs left standing on the battlefield, effective use of the shutdown mechanic and/or evasion tactics has the potential to provide you with the following benefits:[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
[/color]

• Breaking a target lock
  
• Appearing ‘heat neutral’ on maps where Thermal Vision might commonly be used
  
• Presenting on opportunity for staging an ambush
  
• Evading detection long enough to secure a win through Conquest points
  
• Evading detection long enough to secure a timer expiration win when you have superior numbers, in circumstances where you may be too critically damaged to otherwise risk a direct engagement with the enemy

[color=#EEEEEE]
[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
The above situations are considered to be within the scope of what the shutdown mechanic or evasion tactics are intended to be used for.[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
There are situations that do not fall within the scope of what the shutdown mechanic or evasion tactics are intended for. The use of the shutdown mechanic or avoiding contact with the enemy under the following situations may be classed as an act of non-participation, subject to evaluation and moderation actions by Support services:[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
[/color]

• Ceasing to meaningfully contribute for the remainder of the match if you still have support equipment, useful modules, or weapons (with any necessary ammo) available. Losing your primary weapon is not an acceptable excuse for hiding and/or shutting down if you still have a secondary weapon, a support-based item such as a TAG, or a consumable module available for use.
  
• Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory.
  
• Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.

[color=#EEEEEE]
[/color]
[color=#EEEEEE]
Disliking a map or game mode or attempting to preserve a player statistic such as Kill/Death Ratio are not acceptable excuses for non-participation.[/color]

[adamts01]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

Assault still has two win conditions - cap a base and kill all 'Mechs. If some player refuses to follow both of them - he should be treated as non-participating. I didn't want to cap, yes, but wanted to kill him. I was unable to do it only due to my speed limitation. He refused to do both - he was simply waiting for time to run out.

I don't blame the assault or light for that situation. A tie is better than a loss. If the assault left base, the light would cap and win. The light had zero way of killing the assault so he did the best that he could for his team by securing a tie.

Yes a light has an advantage in that situation, but both teams should be balanced so it's not an unfair advantage.

[MrMadguy]

adamts01, on 08 January 2016 - 03:43 AM, said:

I don't blame the assault or light for that situation. A tie is better than a loss. If the assault left base, the light would cap and win. The light had zero way of killing the assault so he did the best that he could for his team by securing a tie.

Yes a light has an advantage in that situation, but both teams should be balanced so it's not an unfair advantage.

As you may read in COC, only loss of all weapons and useful modules - is valid excuse for not engaging with enemies. Cored 'Mech or 'Mech, that lost ST, also has "zero way of killing" fresh one - but it isn't valid excuse for non-participation.

[Satan n stuff]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 03:52 AM, said:

As you may read in COC, only loss of all weapons and useful modules - is valid excuse for not engaging with enemies. Cored 'Mech or 'Mech, that lost ST, also has "zero way of killing" fresh one - but it isn't valid excuse for non-participation.

One would assume the unstated "loss of all useful weapons and modules" ( it's not actually in the COC as such ) is also covered by "Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory."
So you're not allowed to do it even when you're effectively useless unless there's a chance to win the match by conquest points or running down the clock.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 08 January 2016 - 04:13 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Satan n stuff, on 08 January 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

One would assume the unstated "loss of all useful weapons and modules" ( it's not actually in the COC as such ) is also covered by "Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory."
So you're not allowed to do it even when you're effectively useless unless there's a chance to win the match by conquest points or running down the clock.

Unstated? Have you read 3rd post above yours?

Ceasing to meaningfully contribute for the remainder of the match if you still have support equipment, useful modules, or weapons (with any necessary ammo) available. Losing your primary weapon is not an acceptable excuse for hiding and/or shutting down if you still have a secondary weapon, a support-based item such as a TAG, or a consumable module available for use.

Edited by MrMadguy, 08 January 2016 - 04:30 AM.

[adamts01]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 03:52 AM, said:

As you may read in COC, only loss of all weapons and useful modules - is valid excuse for not engaging with enemies. Cored 'Mech or 'Mech, that lost ST, also has "zero way of killing" fresh one - but it isn't valid excuse for non-participation.

Read what I actually said dude. When there's zero chance to win, it's in the teams best interest to secure a tie. Securing a tie is still better than sure death and causing a loss. Hiding in that case is acceptable.

I'm fully aware of all the uses a crippled, weaponless mech still has: distraction, spotter, capper....

[Angela Kerensky]

I've killed 3-4 baby seals when I was the only one left and I ran away from the remaining enemy to go for the tie due to having few weapons left. I earned my team a draw instead of a loss and everyone on my team was pretty happy about it.

[Raggedyman]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

Assault still has two win conditions - cap a base and kill all 'Mechs. If some player refuses to follow both of them - he should be treated as non-participating.

Are you sure you don't mean "If some player refuses to follow EITHER of them"?

adamts01, on 08 January 2016 - 03:43 AM, said:

I don't blame the assault or light for that situation. A tie is better than a loss. If the assault left base, the light would cap and win. The light had zero way of killing the assault so he did the best that he could for his team by securing a tie.

Yes a light has an advantage in that situation, but both teams should be balanced so it's not an unfair advantage.

Teams should be balanced, but as soon as mechs start being killed that balance is gone.

adamts01, on 07 January 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

Hiding to protect your kdr, while you have weapons, and hiding win not net you a win through points is against the Terms. Everyone on the forums knows this, but most in game do not. This should be one of those little messages during the loading screen. Or possibly an automatically generated message if you get too many AFK reports. Your team sucked, get over it and move on.

If you're about to win on capture points there is no compulsion to engage/suicide charge. The participation has already occurred, not dying and cashing in that prior participation for a victory is a totally valid tactic.

If it's a match without capture conditions/a non-kill victory condition, or the hiding player is in a game with a non-kill victory condition but is inactive in a non-winning/winable position (they have no captured locations and are just counting out the clock) then that's a different situation and they should make meaningful efforts to try to win.

Any other approach means that any tactic in any match, regardless of the game mode, which does not involve immediate movement towards direct engagement with the enemy would be a breach of the rules.

Simples

[MrMadguy]

adamts01, on 08 January 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

Read what I actually said dude. When there's zero chance to win, it's in the teams best interest to secure a tie. Securing a tie is still better than sure death and causing a loss. Hiding in that case is acceptable.

I'm fully aware of all the uses a crippled, weaponless mech still has: distraction, spotter, capper....

Lol. I lost my chance to win only because he gone hiding - that's what is called non-participation. Also, we don't care, what you think is acceptable. You have rules - you have to follow them. He had lasers in CT - he had a chance to win. He refused to do it. Have it contributed to his win? No. He was non-participating - he was reported.

[adamts01]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

Lol. I lost my chance to win only because he gone hiding - that's what is called non-participation. Also, we don't care, what you think is acceptable. You have rules - you have to follow them. He had lasers in CT - he had a chance to win. He refused to do it. Have it contributed to his win? No. He was non-participating - he was reported.

It's not "what I think," a draw is better than a loss. The assault leaving his base to chase a light is handing the light a capping victory. I don't blame the assault for camping. If the light had a weapon, it's his bad for hiding. If the light didn't have a weapon, he's doing the best he can for his team by securing a draw. It's pretty simple.