116 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior3671771]

EgoSlayer, on 08 January 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

Sounds simple, but then creates the problem you think it would avoid since now people can see who they are or would be queued against they can deliberately avoid them. It enables the behavior to avoid matches that people think would be too hard, and makes it easier to do so. Don't even have to switch factions.

But that runs contrary to everything I have been told - CW is hardcore, comp teams want to face other comp teams instead of noobs, etc. This would make that easy. And the newbies in trial mechs would self-select themselves out of getting stomped and stick around CW longer. They could find other groups of solos to fight against, gaining both skill and experience until they were ready to join a team or create their own 12 mans.

Quote

if you don't think there are a lot more people who would actively drop out of a queue if they thought the match was going to be too tough compared to units that make alliances or switch factions to avoid each other, you are seriously naive.

It's not naive, I'm expecting some of that - it would separate the real comp teams from the pretenders. The pretenders would no longer be able to hide behind the excuse they were forced by the devs to stomp newbies.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 08 January 2016 - 05:39 PM.

[El Bandito]

Good post, OP. Just stay away from Caph, or we will be forced to open a can of whoop ***.

[MechWarrior3671771]

ccrider, on 08 January 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

I like the idea of seeing who's in the other queue. Facing other units makes for a more tense and exciting match.

Well, you wouldn't be able to see unit names, just the groupings of premades for Red Team.

But yes, you would have an easier time finding drops that were interesting.

[EgoSlayer]

Fen Tetsudo, on 08 January 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

But that runs contrary to everything I have been told - CW is hardcore, comp teams want to face other comp teams instead of noobs, etc. This would make that easy. And the newbies in trial mechs would self-select themselves out of getting stomped and stick around CW longer. They could find other groups of solos to fight against, gaining both skill and experience until they were ready to join a team or create their own 12 mans.



It's not naive, I'm expecting some of that - it would separate the real comp teams from the pretenders. The pretenders would no longer be able to hide behind the excuse they were forced by the devs to stomp newbies.

No it doesn't run contrary to what you have been told, what you would be left with IS comp teams playing comp teams.

What's going to happen is the many that opt out are going to be the solos or small groups that bail because the other team has a 4 man or more on the the other side. Or if its a particular unit tag. There are far more individuals that are going to do that then there are units doing it.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 08 January 2016 - 05:46 PM.

[Bonger Bob]

ccrider, on 08 January 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

...................

4. Joining a unit isn't this giant time sink. Most units don't require "x" number of hours logged, meetings or practice time. Sure, some comp teams do, but most units are just a collection of guys with similar interests who enjoy jumping on Teamspeak and dropping together.

5. Most units don't require you to run certain builds/'mechs. While I'm sure there are teams that do, most units let you run what you want and we adjust our strategies to who happens to be in the drop and what 'mechs they are bringing. I'd rather drop with 11 guys I get along with, running 'mechs and builds they are comfortable in than cookie cutter builds they may not be that good in simply because you ":gotta bring meta."

6. Joining a unit isn't that big of a deal. My unit has a website, but our recruitment is "drop with one of us, if you have fun, every guy in the unit has the ability to send you a unit invite." There's no 3rd party applications, we aren't running background checks or anything. And the truth is, most units are JUST LIKE MINE. Getting an invite to a unit may take a day or 3, but your not gonna be jumping through hoops or getting hazed; every unit wants extra members, just approach a current player with a tag from a unit you played with and had fun and ask. It's that simple.

7. Teamspeak isn't a necessity but goddam does it make everything easier/more fun. There is a HUGE advantage to using TS; between matches you can work out a strategy, talk some **** with your friends and after a match you can talk about what went wrong or right in your last drop. VOIP is great for coordinating with the random PUGs that fill out a drop of less than 12 but it isn't better than TS. My unit and most every unit I've dropped with when PUGging, will invite you into TS to join them. If you have TS, take them up on the offer. You'll find that even a team that whupped your *** a few days before is fun as hell to drop with when you get to know them.

8. This game IS a social game. If you are part of a team, whether as a unit member or one of 12 guys matched up randomly, you are now a team and the best teams COMMUNICATE. Don't be afraid to talk, but for those without a mic, at least listen; you'll get far greater results and enjoy your time more if you know what/why things are happening. If you PUG and drop with an established unit, you can ask them questions about builds/maps/whatever. 99% of the guys I've dropped with are f'n helpful as hell to anyone asking questions. Don't think that you'll be brushed off as some newbie who needs to be ignored; we all want more guys playing CW and will help you get better and enjoy it more so you will play and we can enjoy the mode we like best.

TL;DR: Stop worrying about things that never/rarely happen and go try CW with an open mind and TS installed. If you go in with the attitude that you wanna have fun and can be at least sociable enough to listen, you'll have a freaking blast, I promise. Hell, friend me in-game and I'll show you around myself.

you left out the fact that apart from a pretty tag next to your name and the ability to wait for a drop together, there is no unit integration in the client.

Make recruitment, finding and joining a team a part of the client. Give each team a chat lobby and team management tools. Have a general list of ALL teams within the game that is able to be browsed by potential recruits. Extend the team registry to a leader-board. I could go on all day about the things that NEED to be added to the game client.

These are things that would increase the ability of people to socialize IN THE GAME CLIENT about the game, and whats going on when ever. Having to go to third party sites etc, with no easy way to assess what teams are out there detracts from the social aspect you are pushing for.

Counter to what a lot of the "join a team" people seem to believe, real life may be in conflict with joining third party sites to fill out apps, downloading a 3rd party voip programs, hell even using a mic is beyond some of us due to REAL LIFE constraints.

eg: I have no voip ability, and no desire for the toxic crap to be heard by my kiddies. I can't use a headset either because it result in violence from my wife when i don't respond to her in conversation.

As far as the "join-a-website" crap, i have been through it many times before to the stage I was prevented in one instance from joining the 3rd party site someone was doing the recruit through for that particular game. It turns out years ago i had joined the site host previously under a different online identity using the same email address. I ended up having to retrieve my old I.D. which then caused confusion for the members because i was on a different I.D. to what i was using in game. Overall, IcantBfuked having to do that level of crap for a game. Its the main reason i at least use the forums here, because its linked to my game login and email, no ******* around.

So all of this comes down to one thing, I can type, I would welcome a team chat lobby and the "guidance" that sooo many profess to have, I would gladly participate in and follow orders discussed in a typed format in a lobby that was shared by my team iv'e found and joined through the IN GAME CLIENT list of teams. I would happily socialize and work with others that I can communicate with in a lobby while in downtime between matches / while tinkering with mechs / while waiting for a drop in CW / hell even just to socialize with my like minded team members.

TL:DR-

If you want more socialization in the game, push for PGI to make it more inclusive IN THE GAME CLIENT, not the narrow limited crap we have at the moment that forces people to go outside of the game client for anything beyond having a match or wearing a tag.

Edited by Bonger Bob, 08 January 2016 - 05:58 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Quote

what you would be left with is comp teams playing comp teams.

I thought that's what they said they wanted - they don't like stomping newbies, its boring and lame, and they would rather face off against real teams but the mechanics make it too hard. Did I misunderstand them? Because this would give them exactly that.

And you wouldn't be able to see *unit* tags. It would just be a mirror of the queue you see now for your own team.

Also, players are already choosing drops based on what their own queue shows them - if they see 10 solos lined up on one planet, and another planet with an 8 man premade, they try to hook up with the premade first because they know the drop is likely to be more organized. This would just extend that.

[ccrider]

El Bandito, on 08 January 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

Good post, OP. Just stay away from Caph, or we will be forced to open a can of whoop ***.

We dropped on caph for 1 match yesterday. It was fun but we basically did it while waiting for the queues to thin out so we could fight jade falcon. We'll be marik in 2 weeks so while we may do a drop on caph a few times, we're not going to try and tag it.

[EgoSlayer]

Fen Tetsudo, on 08 January 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

I thought that's what they said they wanted - they don't like stomping newbies, its boring and lame, and they would rather face off against real teams but the mechanics make it too hard. Did I misunderstand them? Because this would give them exactly that.

Yes, it would be great for the comp units and when everyone is running 12 mans. But you keep overlooking how hard it would be for pugs or smaller groups to get a match because of the amount of people that would look at that the queue and either not join, or drop out of the queue as soon as something they didn't like changed on the other side.

May as well just have split queues at that point because the time to match in your proposed system would probably end up worse.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 08 January 2016 - 06:16 PM.

[Deathlike]

EgoSlayer, on 08 January 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Yes, it would be great for the comp units and when everyone is running 12 mans. But you keep overlooking how hard it would be for pugs or smaller groups to get a match because of the amount of people that would look that the queue and either not join, or drop out of the queue as soon as something they didn't like changed on the other side.

May as well just have split queues at that point because the time to match in your proposed system would probably end up worse.

One of the biggest ongoing problems is queue times. Segregating the players in some form simply increases it. It's simple math.

If the population was like a waterfall (unlimited), this wouldn't be an issue. Then I've seen CW days where I literally see 0 action on multiple fronts.

You know what breaks down players from playing? Having ghost drops does this (especially doing ghost drops more than once). It doesn't even matter if you're in a unit. Already long wait times don't help.. and wasting people's time with a ghost drop is the literal queue killer.

[Bonger Bob]

EgoSlayer, on 08 January 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Yes, it would be great for the comp units and when everyone is running 12 mans. But you keep overlooking how hard it would be for pugs or smaller groups to get a match because of the amount of people that would look that the queue and either not join, or drop out of the queue as soon as something they didn't like changed on the other side.

May as well just have split queues at that point because the time to match in your proposed system would probably end up worse.

this excuse is getting old and just doesn't cut it, im sorry, but if you want to maintain the current seal clubbing, please come up with a better excuse than " the ques will break / become a wasteland / sync drop ".

The ques are not the problem, they're just one possible way to fix the issue : the lack of team building resources in the client and the resulting behavior of one group of players against another section of players.

[Deathlike]

Bonger Bob, on 08 January 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

this excuse is getting old and just doesn't cut it, im sorry, but if you want to maintain the current seal clubbing, please come up with a better excuse than " the ques will break / become a wasteland / sync drop ".

The ques are not the problem, they're just one possible way to fix the issue : the lack of team building resources in the client and the resulting behavior of one group of players against another section of players.

"Seal clubbing" happens when the following happens:

1) New players don't know any better. Self explanatory (the players are ill-equipped to deal with the mode period).

2) Players with a "solo mentality" don't work.The solo queue trains players to fend for themselves (as in - you can't trust your teammates). What tends to happen is that those players when told what to do (whether by VOIP or in chat), they'd ignore it. There's not much you can do to fix that other than being willing to learn to play the game.

3) Deck synergy is non-existent. Say you have a NARC build (or TAG, or whatever).. and you're trying to help out the team... particularly the LRM boats (I do want to say that I don't advocate for LRMs for various reasons - I'm just citing an example). If your teammates don't bring something to make use of it, well.. you're not going to be as useful to the team. Usually there is some level of planning in dropdeck synergy (whether it is all Lights or all brawlers) and when your team isn't even on the same page for builds - you'll have people in a bad position and they will be less effective overall.


It has lot less to do with skill (although it is a factor).. it's a lot more to do with learning CW and all the things necessary to be successful.

That's why teams truly win or lose in CW. It's a lot about how they play the mode.

[EgoSlayer]

Bonger Bob, on 08 January 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

this excuse is getting old and just doesn't cut it, im sorry, but if you want to maintain the current seal clubbing, please come up with a better excuse than " the ques will break / become a wasteland / sync drop ".

The ques are not the problem, they're just one possible way to fix the issue : the lack of team building resources in the client and the resulting behavior of one group of players against another section of players.

I don't want to club seals. And not wanting to wait 20 minutes for matches isn't any indication that I want to do that. Come up with a better excuse. Because I have been in *many* ghost drops with the queues as they are now. Explain how splitting them up any more is going to be better.

The queues are a big part of the problem with too many factions to choose from and too many active planets to attack/defend there are too many queues already. From what I understand CW 3.0 will address the second part, the amount of actual planets up for battle will be less.

[oldradagast]

Let's address each point in turn:

1) CW is fun: That's your opinion. The empty queues, however, make it clear that for most MWO players, it is not fun.

2) Units aren't looking to farm PUG's: Evidence disagrees with this claim, both in-game evidence, when the big teams avoid conflict with each other, and the fact that whenever one proposes a solution that would prevent PUG farming, such as some form of match-making, we get waves of nasty replies from unit members who shout down such ideas. If farming PUG's isn't fun, and yet is obviously a huge part of why most people don't consider CW fun, why are the hard-core CW players opposed to fixing this problem? Oh, yeah - because it would take away their free wins.

3) Personal opinion that PUG'ing is not bad. Again, the empty CW queues and general hatred towards that game mode make it clear that for most MWO players, PUG'ing in CW IS that bad.

4, 5, 6) Yes, joining a team and such is not a big deal. But getting good enough in CW to avoid being a clubbed seal IS a big deal and takes more commitment than most players have the resources to give. See also empty CW queues.

7) Many players have Teamspeak, but coms is no substitute for time spent practicing with a team and piles of fully leveled meta-mechs. If all it took to make a group competitive was coms, you couldn't create an instant, fully trained army with a pile of cell phones.

8) Again, the eternal assumption that people who hate the current CW game mode are "not team players." Many of us play just fine on teams and are actually parts of small, casual units. We have nothing against teams or team-work. We do, however, consider a game mode that pits full, practiced teams against casuals and PUG's an idiotic, unbalanced, and completely no-fun joke - and most of the MWO community agrees with that fact based on CW's miserable population numbers. The problem isn't "teams" - the problem is no match-making, unbalanced games decided before the first mech drops, and big team players who support this current joke because it pads their K/D ratio and lets them talk down to others about how much "better" they are at the game based on simply knowing more people and having more time to play it.

[oldradagast]

Fen Tetsudo, on 08 January 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

I thought that's what they said they wanted - they don't like stomping newbies, its boring and lame, and they would rather face off against real teams but the mechanics make it too hard. Did I misunderstand them? Because this would give them exactly that.

And you wouldn't be able to see *unit* tags. It would just be a mirror of the queue you see now for your own team.

Also, players are already choosing drops based on what their own queue shows them - if they see 10 solos lined up on one planet, and another planet with an 8 man premade, they try to hook up with the premade first because they know the drop is likely to be more organized. This would just extend that.

They claim to want that, but they really don't. Watch as the big teams avoid conflict with each other on the map, shout down any proposed changes to CW that would vastly reduce the stomps and idiocy of pitting full teams against PUG's, and then spend so much effort and venom spewing ego all over the forums about how great they are and how "everyone else needs to change" to accept CW for the worthless waste that it is.

No, many of them are into achievement porn and would gladly rule over a completely empty CW wasteland just so they can slap their unit's name on a bunch of pixel planets and feel better about themselves. It's a sad joke, really.

[oldradagast]

PerfectDuck, on 08 January 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Yo, I'm not the OP.

When a crumby team of pugs enters CW mode and fail to deliver even a semblance of a fight, it's us the competitive team who is the victim of having their time wasted in a colossal way.

Lol... as if the PUG's aren't also having their time wasted in an equally colossal way. And yet every time changes are proposed that would vastly reduce the stomps by putting in some form of match-making, all we get are screams of outrage from the seal-clubbers. They talk a good talk, about how sacred CW is, and how it is "hard mode," but all I see are a bunch of spoiled man-children forming sad gangs to mug casuals in alleys so they can get a free win ("hard mode," right.... ) and put a stupid little tag on a worthless pixel planet.

If the big units REALLY want to just fight each other, they can prove it. Demand an end to the stomps. Demand some form of match-making. Actually FIGHT each other, instead of DELIBERATELY avoiding major conflicts to instead club seals, as Russ's data shows is currently happening. Flippin' jokers... it'll never happen. Because all that matters is some worthless "a winner is you!" trophy, even if the game is killed in the process.

Edited by oldradagast, 08 January 2016 - 06:41 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Deathlike, on 08 January 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

One of the biggest ongoing problems is queue times. Segregating the players in some form simply increases it. It's simple math

Agreed, but play the math all the way out. Segregate and temporarily increase queue times now, or lose new players and permanently increase queue times later. Both choices are bad, but one is permanent.

It may be that we just disagree on the health of the CW population. I think its much worse than you?

[Deathlike]

Fen Tetsudo, on 08 January 2016 - 06:56 PM, said:

Agreed, but play the math all the way out. Segregate and temporarily increase queue times now, or lose new players and permanently increase queue times later. Both choices are bad, but one is permanent.

Long wait times affect EVERYONE. The biggest issue with wait times is that solo PUGing becomes more attractive (getting two solo games under ~7 mins each will get you more than the current 200k flat rate for ghost dropping - assuming you are any good).

Quote

It may be that we just disagree on the health of the CW population. I think its much worse than you?

I'm more interested in getting new players up to a competent level (so they don't become literal cannon fodder) instead of lowering the quality of the player to the quality of the solo queue (which is mostly garbage).

Edited by Deathlike, 08 January 2016 - 07:03 PM.

[Bonger Bob]

Deathlike, on 08 January 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

"Seal clubbing" happens when the following happens:

1) New players don't know any better. Self explanatory (the players are ill-equipped to deal with the mode period).

2) Players with a "solo mentality" don't work.The solo queue trains players to fend for themselves (as in - you can't trust your teammates). What tends to happen is that those players when told what to do (whether by VOIP or in chat), they'd ignore it. There's not much you can do to fix that other than being willing to learn to play the game.

3) Deck synergy is non-existent. Say you have a NARC build (or TAG, or whatever).. and you're trying to help out the team... particularly the LRM boats (I do want to say that I don't advocate for LRMs for various reasons - I'm just citing an example). If your teammates don't bring something to make use of it, well.. you're not going to be as useful to the team. Usually there is some level of planning in dropdeck synergy (whether it is all Lights or all brawlers) and when your team isn't even on the same page for builds - you'll have people in a bad position and they will be less effective overall.


It has lot less to do with skill (although it is a factor).. it's a lot more to do with learning CW and all the things necessary to be successful.

That's why teams truly win or lose in CW. It's a lot about how they play the mode.

agreed to some limited extent.

But one thing happening far to often is people bunching all solo players into the "new player / solo mentality". I for one am a solo player, and will remain so until teams are built into the client, like my previous post stated.

This by no means translates to i'm in it for myself. I am often watching the mini-map (to an almost ****-retentive point ) and chat panel for intel on on the battle at hand, often extend myself out of my comfort zone to assist when / where i can. I don't go kill seeking only and sit back waiting for everyone else to die. I stay with the death ball if it forms up, i watch flanks and type it in chat as soon as i see action,along with how many and what i think they are doing. Depending on which mech i'm in at that moment will often dictate how im going to engage, but what the team is doing over-rides that because benefiting the team over myself will provide greater rewards at the end of round and in the long term.

This extends to CW when I do it, and admittedly there have been some great moments and wins with entire pug sides against a team. I've learnt the map specific strategy's and how to read the various types employed against my side in the round at the time. Sometimes the wins iv'e been apart of against teams has been because the "coordinated team" has kept pressing with a failed strategy, and the pug team adapted in a way they didn't expect.

And of course through all of this when i build my mech, I ALWAYS factor in what the pugs might be carrying, its actually very easy to jump into a few rounds, work out what the particular flavor today is, and adapt your mech to best suit the likely match ups you will encounter. Deck synergy is very easy to adapt to, if your mindful of it. EG : pugs are currently going hard on lurms today, there is always at least 1 lurm boat and a few with lurms as a secondary weapons. This is a good time for me to break out the ECM tagger for my entire side to likely benefit from. And again, this extends to CW. If your talking about those situation when in CW when one side has all the same mech, same weapons etc ( ach swarm for example ), that's not synergy, that's boating and a debatable tactic at best.

now this next comment is not aimed at you ( Deathlike ) or anyone in particular, its just a statement for some of the people who think being in a team makes them a more entitled and skilled player with no faults of their own :

NOT ALL SOLO / PUG PLAYERS ARE NOOBS TO BE BELITTLED AND DERIDED INTO JOINING TEAMS. YOU WANT PEOPLE TO JOIN A TEAM SO MUCH, GET PGI TO INCLUDE IT IN THE GAME CLIENT IN A FUNCTIONAL AND MEANINGFUL SENSE, NOT JUST THE TAGS WE CURRENTLY HAVE.

Until that happens, there are and will continue to be people like myself, who recognize that a team alone does not make great players. Not saying im a great player either before people start saying im elitist etc etc. Just a simple fact that some solo players prefer to remain solo casual players until PGI fix / add the things that need sorting. That doesn't make us all bads / noobs / in dire need of your infinitely wise council.

[ccrider]

Ok, lots of replies good and bad but I'm just gonna reply to the negative ones without mentioning names cause that's f'n useless.

1. The seal clubbing super unit boogeyman: there are very few giant units, my unit is 62 players with about 35-40 active and 8-12 of us online at the same time on any given day. We rarely tag a planet and when we do it lasts for a day if that so that's not our motivation to play. And the reality is, most units are closer to mine than the few super units. When I PUG in CW people call any group of the same faction a 12 man. That isn't the case. If 12 Davion players without tags drop to defend against Liao that isn't a 12 man it's 12 Davion players randomly dropping together.

2. If this were real war, I'd agree that giving everyone cell phones wouldn't make them super soldiers. However, this is a game and force multipliers exist here so the simple matter of using TS or VOIP to call targets can turn 12 ordinary players into a powerful force. Take the most quirked 'mechs in the game then shoot them with 12 of your 'mechs at one time. How long do they last? The best pilots in this game can't torso twist focus fire from 12 'mechs. There isn't enough armor/structure on any 'mech to make that survivable. And when one goes down, now you have 12 shooting at 11 and so on.

3. Never matching up with better opponents doesn't help you get better, it helps you stagnate at your current level. Why would an average player suddenly get better playing other average players? You get better by testing yourself and playing better teams tests you.

4. TS. I get some people can't/won't use a headset or mic; that's fine. Install TS and just listen in. There isn't endless torrents of vitriol pouring out. This isn't XBox live with a bunch of 14 year-olds. Most MW:O players are adults with jobs/kids/responsibilities who are giant robot nerds and we talk in TS like giant nerds. You'll hear a lot of "meet in G6" "target alpha, timberwolf, ct cored" or "don't reinforce, we go back in as a 12 man wave" but I don't hear a lot of garbage and I'm in TS whenever I'm logged into MW:O and I have kids near me when I play.

I get some of you had bad experiences, but why not try again with a open mind? It's not really that bad, give some of us a try and you may find that the experience is a lot different than you remembered.

Edited by ccrider, 08 January 2016 - 07:23 PM.

[Deathlike]

Bonger Bob, on 08 January 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

agreed to some limited extent.

But one thing happening far to often is people bunching all solo players into the "new player / solo mentality". I for one am a solo player, and will remain so until teams are built into the client, like my previous post stated.

This by no means translates to i'm in it for myself. I am often watching the mini-map (to an almost ****-retentive point ) and chat panel for intel on on the battle at hand, often extend myself out of my comfort zone to assist when / where i can. I don't go kill seeking only and sit back waiting for everyone else to die. I stay with the death ball if it forms up, i watch flanks and type it in chat as soon as i see action,along with how many and what i think they are doing. Depending on which mech i'm in at that moment will often dictate how im going to engage, but what the team is doing over-rides that because benefiting the team over myself will provide greater rewards at the end of round and in the long term.

This extends to CW when I do it, and admittedly there have been some great moments and wins with entire pug sides against a team. I've learnt the map specific strategy's and how to read the various types employed against my side in the round at the time. Sometimes the wins iv'e been apart of against teams has been because the "coordinated team" has kept pressing with a failed strategy, and the pug team adapted in a way they didn't expect.

And of course through all of this when i build my mech, I ALWAYS factor in what the pugs might be carrying, its actually very easy to jump into a few rounds, work out what the particular flavor today is, and adapt your mech to best suit the likely match ups you will encounter. Deck synergy is very easy to adapt to, if your mindful of it. EG : pugs are currently going hard on lurms today, there is always at least 1 lurm boat and a few with lurms as a secondary weapons. This is a good time for me to break out the ECM tagger for my entire side to likely benefit from. And again, this extends to CW. If your talking about those situation when in CW when one side has all the same mech, same weapons etc ( ach swarm for example ), that's not synergy, that's boating and a debatable tactic at best.

now this next comment is not aimed at you ( Deathlike ) or anyone in particular, its just a statement for some of the people who think being in a team makes them a more entitled and skilled player with no faults of their own :

NOT ALL SOLO / PUG PLAYERS ARE NOOBS TO BE BELITTLED AND DERIDED INTO JOINING TEAMS. YOU WANT PEOPLE TO JOIN A TEAM SO MUCH, GET PGI TO INCLUDE IT IN THE GAME CLIENT IN A FUNCTIONAL AND MEANINGFUL SENSE, NOT JUST THE TAGS WE CURRENTLY HAVE.

Until that happens, there are and will continue to be people like myself, who recognize that a team alone does not make great players. Not saying im a great player either before people start saying im elitist etc etc. Just a simple fact that some solo players prefer to remain solo casual players until PGI fix / add the things that need sorting. That doesn't make us all bads / noobs / in dire need of your infinitely wise council.

I'm not saying all players dropping solo are a problem... but the good ones are few and far in between generally speaking.

When you see some players doing 2000+ damage while the rest are doing sub-800 (more like 500), that 2k damage player probably isn't necessarily all that.. but that person is most likely doing the work (aka carrying) of 2 or 3 not-so-great (and usually solo) players on the team.

The reason I always suggest the faction TS hubs is because you are not ever required to join a team - you just find people to drop with and hope to make the best of it with them. There is no pressure to join a team.. although it is suggested and better served (because your skills are very likely to improve with input), but not a requirement.

I feel like totally new players would make a 4v8 (where the 4 players are more veteran/seasoned players, probably in a unit or are from different units and the 8 players are totally new to the game) look "fair" and yet "unfair" (I'd bet more than 50% of the time that the 4-man team will beat an 8-man new player team).. because you'll see someone on the 8-man go off on their own, or shoot a part of the body that isn't critical to killing a mech (going for a side torso when the mech is clearly legged) or even become a relatively easy stationary target to hit (all of which happens enough times in actual CW drops). You can easily tell who clearly doesn't belong in CW.. and that's part of the inherent problem.


Good players know how to drop solo in CW... but most that drop solo are not of that type. CW is supposed to be the "end game mode", but the new player should never be in the "end game scenario" matchup... they will have a bad time (MM or no MM).

Edited by Deathlike, 08 January 2016 - 07:46 PM.