87 replies to this topic

[Sader325]

First step: Remove all PPC quirks from all mechs quirked for PPC's and ER PPC's.

Second Step: Add a new firemode to all PPC's and ER PPC's.

Charged Fire Mode.

Holding down the fire button on PPC's and ERPPC's will allow the weapon to begin charging (exactly the same as Guass Rifle Mechanic with the same charge time.)

Result:

A Charged PPC shot will now do damage below 90 meters but heat gen will be increased by 20%.

A charged ER-PPC shot will travel at 40% increased velocity and do 10% more damage but heat gen will be increased by 10%.

PPC's and ER PPC's will still be able to "snap fire" the same way they fire now, but with no additional speed/damage bonuses.


Good idea? Bad Idea? Discuss.

*EDIT*

Reading comprehension is hard.

Edited by Sader325, 09 January 2016 - 04:35 PM.

[himself]

Sader325, on 09 January 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

First step: Remove all PPC quirks from all mechs quirked for PPC's and ER PPC's.

Second Step: Add a new firemode to all PPC's and ER PPC's.

Charged Fire Mode.

Holding down the fire button on PPC's and ERPPC's will allow the weapon to begin charging (exactly the same as Guass Rifle Mechanic with the same charge time.)

Result:

A Charged PPC shot will now do damage below 90 meters but heat gen will be increased by 20%.

A charged ER-PPC shot will travel at 40% increased velocity and do 10% more damage but heat gen will be increased by 10%.

PPC's and ER PPC's will still be able to "snap fire" the same way they fire now, but with no additional speed/damage bonuses.


Good idea? Bad Idea? Discuss.

I don't see why the quirks for PPCs need to be removed. Rebalanced, perhaps, but not removed.

[Y E O N N E]

I like a slightly different approach:

Projectile Velocity: hitscan beam
Beam Duration: 0.2 seconds
Damage 10/10/15 (PPC/ERPPC/CERPPC)
Heat: 10/12.5/15
Cool-down: 3.75/4.25/4.75 seconds

Notes: On pull of the trigger, the gun will take 0.25 seconds to spool up before firing. This is a committed action that the player cannot cancel. You pull the trigger, and you are along for the ride until it fires.

It is a particle accelerator, after all, not a slug-thrower.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 09 January 2016 - 08:49 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

so what we need is even more reason for players to avoid PPCs, already on the verge of extinction?

And this is why I have long held to the belief that Tier 1 and "comp" player doesn't mean one grasps balance.

[pbiggz]

no

[Xylek]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

so what we need is even more reason for players to avoid PPCs, already on the verge of extinction?

And this is why I have long held to the belief that Tier 1 and "comp" player doesn't mean one grasps balance.

I like how you're following him around the forums now and insulting him, instead of possibly giving a counter point or explaining your reasoning for why his ideas are bad.

[Gamuray]

If you're trying to improve the base weapon, just give it some of its velocity back and be done with it, every mech that people put ppc's on has velocity quirks anyways. Either do that, or do it indirectly by making large lasers less of a no duh over ppc's.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xylek, on 09 January 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

I like how you're following him around the forums now and insulting him, instead of possibly giving a counter point or explaining your reasoning for why his ideas are bad.

Wow. Because commenting on one (bad idea) is following people. If that's the criteria, Sader must be a serial stalker... guess I should get a restraining order against him.

Also, as for counter arguments?
http://mwomercs.com/...pcs-how-to-fix/
23 pages of better ideas.

Get a life

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 January 2016 - 10:33 AM.

[Xylek]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

Wow. Because commenting on one (bad idea) is following people. If that's the criteria, Sader must be a serial stalker... guess I should get a restraining order against him.

Also, as for counter arguments?
http://mwomercs.com/...pcs-how-to-fix/
23 pages of better ideas.

Get a life

Well he clearly rubbed you the wrong way in another topic if you're coming in and insulting his ability to grasp balance based entirely on his tier.

On topic, though, I do like your suggested balance changes to the PPCs, and they aligned with the changes I would like to see. Would be a significant quality-of-life improvement for the weapon. At the same time, Sader325's suggestions were interesting at least, though having to charge them does not appeal to me personally.

I would also like to point out the irony of you telling me to get a life when you have over 30k forum posts.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xylek, on 09 January 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Well he clearly rubbed you the wrong way in another topic if you're coming in and insulting his ability to grasp balance based entirely on his tier.

On topic, though, I do like your suggested balance changes to the PPCs, and they aligned with the changes I would like to see. Would be a significant quality-of-life improvement for the weapon. At the same time, Sader325's suggestions were interesting at least, though having to charge them does not appeal to me personally.

I would also like to point out the irony of you telling me to get a life when you have over 30k forum posts.

And the irony of you using you very first post (after 3 years on forums) to insult me? I am semi retired and work from home. Got plenty of time on my "work" days to peruse the forums. (sales has plenty of dead time)

As for having a life, well come on down to mexico, I'll be happy to show you what I spend my days doing, scuba diving, freediving, spearfishing, etc. Seems pretty fulfilling to me.

As for rubbed me the wrong way? Meh. I find his pov pretty myopic, but has nothing to do with me commenting on one thread. I love PPCs, have in every iteration of Btech and MW. And ever since the Gauss charge up, a group of people have stumped to have this put on PPCs (mostly because they don't want to admit their zero heat, near hitscan, super long range gun is a balance issue), and every time I see this suggestion, no matter the author of the OP, I comment on it, because it's a bad idea, but in game forums, bad ideas have strange ways of getting a life of their own.

Honestly, had McGral18, or Mautty or someone else proposed it, I would have pretty much had the same reply. Just minus the gratuitous swipe at Epeen for my own amusements sake.

(unless of course, it was from someone noted for leaning on their perceived 1337 stature as their argument. Using videogames for life validation and as viagra for one's self esteem is just too ridiculous not to take shots at)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 January 2016 - 10:56 AM.

[Khobai]

NO. Just no.

We dont need chargeup on anymore weapons ever.

k thanks.

[1Grimbane]

Just say no to charge-up no matter how cool it makes you look to your friends.


SPREAD CHARGE-UP AWARENESS #justsayno

Edited by 1Grimbane, 09 January 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[Pjwned]

I would rather just see PPC minimum range adjusted to have scaling damage like cLRMs (like how it used to be) and buff (C-) ER PPC (but not PPC) velocity significantly without introducing different firing mechanics.

I agree with removing the quirks though, or at the very least nerfed down to 5-10% quirks for 1 or 2 categories rather than quirks that buff everything related to PPCs by 25% which is dumb as hell.

[Xylek]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

And the irony of you using you very first post (after 3 years on forums) to insult me? I am semi retired and work from home. Got plenty of time on my "work" days to peruse the forums. (sales has plenty of dead time)

As for having a life, well come on down to mexico, I'll be happy to show you what I spend my days doing, scuba diving, freediving, spearfishing, etc. Seems pretty fulfilling to me.

As for rubbed me the wrong way? Meh. I find his pov pretty myopic, but has nothing to do with me commenting on one thread. I love PPCs, have in every iteration of Btech and MW. And ever since the Gauss charge up, a group of people have stumped to have this put on PPCs (mostly because they don't want to admit their zero heat, near hitscan, super long range gun is a balance issue), and every time I see this suggestion, no matter the author of the OP, I comment on it, because it's a bad idea, but in game forums, bad ideas have strange ways of getting a life of their own.

Honestly, had McGral18, or Mautty or someone else proposed it, I would have pretty much had the same reply. Just minus the gratuitous swipe at Epeen (unless of course, it was from someone noted for leaning on their perceived 1337 stature as their argument) for my own amusements sake.

I don't particularly care about someone's personal life on a public forum for a video game. It's irrelevant to most constructive discussion.

On the other hand, I also greatly love PPCs and would love to see them actually be objectively useful outside of the heavily quirked mechs (used to run them on my DRG-1C but now I can't get that mech to perform like I want.)

[Yosharian]

Sader325, on 09 January 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

First step: Remove all PPC quirks from all mechs quirked for PPC's and ER PPC's.

Second Step: Add a new firemode to all PPC's and ER PPC's.

Charged Fire Mode.

Holding down the fire button on PPC's and ERPPC's will allow the weapon to begin charging (exactly the same as Guass Rifle Mechanic with the same charge time.)

Result:

A Charged PPC shot will now do damage below 90 meters but heat gen will be increased by 20%.

A charged ER-PPC shot will travel at 40% increased velocity and do 10% more damage but heat gen will be increased by 10%.

PPC's and ER PPC's will still be able to "snap fire" the same way they fire now, but with no additional speed/damage bonuses.


Good idea? Bad Idea? Discuss.

Really? The PPC family would have to be hitscan (like a lightning bolt) to deserve such a change. The measly bonuses you describe are in no way a reasonable recompense for adding a charge mechanic.

That said I think that a charge mechanic would be absolutely fine IF the PPC family became hitscan, or at least 2k speed like the gauss rifle, and its heat was lowered somewhat, say a 10-15% drop.

Edit: ah I see you mean it as an optional charge mechanic rather than a forced one. I think it's a good idea, then. But PPCs need a hell of a lot of love before such a mechanic could be introduced. Right now it's not worth using them, even with these kind of changes.

And the standard PPC deserves to have scaling damage below 90m with no additional drawbacks, let alone in return for a charge + more heat. This weapon is absurdly bad in close quarters.

Edited by Yosharian, 09 January 2016 - 11:14 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xylek, on 09 January 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

I don't particularly care about someone's personal life on a public forum for a video game. It's irrelevant to most constructive discussion.

On the other hand, I also greatly love PPCs and would love to see them actually be objectively useful outside of the heavily quirked mechs (used to run them on my DRG-1C but now I can't get that mech to perform like I want.)

and on that we agree.

So stay out of Sader and my mutual dislike for each other, and we'll all be good, then, eh?

PPCs need fixing. But they need a well thought out approach that really looks at their global balance and such. Hence my dislike of most suggestions I see which clearly have not really investigated the matter deeply.

[FupDup]

Or you can just use a time machine to go back to the past of when PPCs were viable.

And then, after reliving the time period of effective PPCs, you analyze to figure out WHAT made them viable.

I know this sounds really really crazy guys, like batpoop insane helter-skelter level of bonkers, but I think I might be onto something here...

And then after you know what made them good, you apply that goodness to the modern-day PPC...perhaps with some secondary countermeasures to keep balance (e.g. cooldown or whatever).

Edited by FupDup, 09 January 2016 - 11:12 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yosharian, on 09 January 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Really? The PPC family would have to be hitscan (like a lightning bolt) to deserve such a change. The measly bonuses you describe are in no way a reasonable recompense for adding a charge mechanic.

That said I think that a charge mechanic would be absolutely fine IF the PPC family became hitscan, or at least 2k speed like the gauss rifle, and its heat was lowered somewhat, say a 10-15% drop.

I hate the charge idea, period, but have to agree with the rest of your post, as to just how much you woul dhave to buff the ppcs in return to make it remotely viable with a charge up.

FupDup, on 09 January 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Or you can just use a time machine to go back to the past of when PPCs were viable.

And then, after reliving the time period of effective PPCs, you analyze to figure out WHAT made them viable.

I know this sounds really really crazy guys, like batpoop insane helter-skelter level of bonkers, but I think I might be onto something here...

And then after you know what made them good, you apply that goodness to the modern-day PPC...perhaps with some secondary countermeasures to keep balance (e.g. cooldown or whatever).

except that jus tlike chassis that were batcrap tier one metalords 3 years ago, so much HAS changed since that what "worked then" won't necessarily work now.

Although it gives a baseline for what wasn't a good idea before ("cool" running, synced well with ballistics, BAD. Too fast, too cool, bad)

[AztecD]

god no

[Yosharian]

FupDup, on 09 January 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Or you can just use a time machine to go back to the past of when PPCs were viable.

And then, after reliving the time period of effective PPCs, you analyze to figure out WHAT made them viable.

I know this sounds really really crazy guys, like batpoop insane helter-skelter level of bonkers, but I think I might be onto something here...

And then after you know what made them good, you apply that goodness to the modern-day PPC...perhaps with some secondary countermeasures to keep balance (e.g. cooldown or whatever).

I like how you're applying so much logic to this when the person in charge of balancing this game chooses nerfs/buffs based on his emotional state on that particular day. (either that or a dartboard)