87 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 03:54 PM, said:

oh, I remember. I remember my comp overlords telling me DS was bad, then my exact build BECOMING the meta. Just like I remember Camp Tryhard proclaiming Gauss wrecked and useless.... until ACs got slow, then suddenly they figured out how to use the charge mechanic, and it was part of the Meta again.

As ever, the truth behind game meta is this: It's whatever is absolutely easiest to get results with, at a given time. Skill usually has little to do with the actual meta.

I always say:

"There's the tinkerers that find the next best build, then there are the followers that take it run with it."

Very few of the comp meta-overlords are the former, but nearly all are the latter.

I remember when we first got the Clan Wave 1. It was all Gauss/ERPPC Timbers. I saw their utter rediculous lasers and just crammed all LPL and ERML on mine and vomited 61 points of damage on everything.

Same when we got the first round of IS quirks. I took a BLR-1G and slapped 2 LPLs and 5 MLs on it and went to town. About two weeks later I started seeing everyone else using them.

Just like the first CTF-3D poptart I saw was Soy. Then about a month later I saw that KaoS had all ditched their K2s and were running CTF-3Ds.

But my Dragonslayer was 3x PPCs and an XL400

[Bishop Steiner]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 09 January 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

I always say:

"There's the tinkerers that find the next best build, then there are the followers that take it run with it."

Very few of the comp meta-overlords are the former, but nearly all are the latter.

I remember when we first got the Clan Wave 1. It was all Gauss/ERPPC Timbers. I saw their utter rediculous lasers and just crammed all LPL and ERML on mine and vomited 61 points of damage on everything.

Same when we got the first round of IS quirks. I took a BLR-1G and slapped 2 LPLs and 5 MLs on it and went to town. About two weeks later I started seeing everyone else using them.

Just like the first CTF-3D poptart I saw was Soy. Then about a month later I saw that KaoS had all ditched their K2s and were running CTF-3Ds.

But my Dragonslayer was 3x PPCs and an XL400

yeah... I've been quietly running my Novatart since July of last year.... then Soy comes and ruins it by telling everyone about the build....

thankfully modern poptarting DOES take some modicum of skill and is nowhere near as effective (or risk averse) so most people still won't try it.....

FupDup, on 09 January 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

A few Clan mechs with JJs (SMN, NVA, TBR) with ERPPCs (sometimes Gauss thrown in) were viable substitutes to laser builds back in the day...

the most amazing part about Khobai's selective blindness about this?

PPCs have pretty much never been "good". Just good. Not great, but a decent second choice to the meta. They have almost always been either "OP broken" or "totally trash".

One would think that would speak volumes itself about the razor edge nature of balancing PPFLD.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 09 January 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

I always say:

"There's the tinkerers that find the next best build, then there are the followers that take it run with it."

Very few of the comp meta-overlords are the former, but nearly all are the latter.

Yeah, don't let Camp Tryhard hear you say that, lol. Having good reflexes and being on a disciplined team automatically means you you understand everything about the game better than everyone else. True story.

And yet... lol

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 January 2016 - 04:07 PM.

[Melon Lord]

I've been leveling my HBRs with 2 PPCs and a boat load of sinks since I wanted to try it ASAP and didn't want to actually think about what would work. It worked out much much better than I expected, so I wouldn't mind that charge mechanic.

[4EVR]

Quote

You gotta remember that people only read the first couple of sentences. So they thought you meant PPC should be limited to this charged mechanic. Need to say OPTIONAL in the first sentence and then repeat it 3 times.

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

Nope, read it. And it was still a bad idea.

Love how you assume I was talking about you... "they" and "people", plural.

Hug?

Edited by 4EVR, 09 January 2016 - 04:24 PM.

[VinJade]

then you should add a charge to the ER Large Lasers as well. also manually load MGs, SRM, AMS, ect while you are at it.

turning the PPCs into a f***ing more piece of garbage than it already is is just stupid an idea that anyone could add to the poor PPCs.

leave them alone unless you make everything needing to me manually charged/oaded not just the PPCs. while also making PPCs 100% faster, powerful, and less heat.

stupid idea?
no different than those(ideas) that want to nerf the PPC even more.

[Bishop Steiner]

4EVR, on 09 January 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Love how you assume I was talking about you... "they" and "people", plural.

Hug?

Oh, so now I'm not a person. Way to dehumanize folk. *SMH*

[4EVR]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

Oh, so now I'm not a person. Way to dehumanize folk. *SMH*

To the rest of the group. Is this guy always so toxic?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

4EVR, on 09 January 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

To the rest of the group. Is this guy always so toxic?

Depends if you consider "to call a spade a spade" toxic.

[Bishop Steiner]

4EVR, on 09 January 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

To the rest of the group. Is this guy always so toxic?

lol, if that's being toxic, you really need to get out more. But hey, welcome to the internet.
























*smh*

[Sader325]

Reading comprehension is hard.

[4EVR]

You can snipe and sneer all you want.

#NotEvenMad

[tangles 253]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

I like a slightly different approach:

Projectile Velocity: hitscan beam
Beam Duration: 0.2 seconds
Damage 10/10/15 (PPC/ERPPC/CERPPC)
Heat: 10/12.5/15
Cool-down: 3.75/4.25/4.75 seconds

Notes: On pull of the trigger, the gun will take 0.25 seconds to spool up before firing. This is a committed action that the player cannot cancel. You pull the trigger, and you are along for the ride until it fires.

It is a particle accelerator, after all, not a slug-thrower.

i like this more, however i would ommit the .25 spool up time.

It sounds more in like with the lore unleashing lightening description of the ppc

[YakkSlapper]

NO! period, no more discussing it.

and no, not cause i overly use em, hell "MY" weap of choice, ac 20,
so, STOP trying to fk over everyone else cause some part of the players overly use whats 'percieved' as an issue where there isnt really an issue, ppl will use what every they want or, they will look only for 'what ever is perceived' as op,
Its a fkn PPC,
Particle Projection Cannon, you take a basicly microscopic particle (or energy particle, after all a photon is basically one particle of light) and hyper accelerate it and 'heat it up' its supposed to be a deadly, far reaching, near instantaneously delivered super hit, its deadlier then a lazer barrage by its self(in theory anyway) as it combines energy AND matter in the shot,

and while were on it, they need to A)remove the charge mechanix from gauss OR, change charge behaviour to once charged, it STAYS charged until you release the trigger, then it shoots. not double penalty of ridicules charge AND only a sec to fire,(gauss guns are MAGNETICALLY hyper accelerated depleted uranium rounds, no charge in involved, just a series of accelerator magnets dragging the slug from breach to barrel end at electrical impulse speeds to activate the 'magnets' in sequence, there's no energy build up,JUST like an electric engine there's off, then on, so you go from 'zero' to full power in an INSTANT(unless your using a rheostat type device to change the currents power) unlike combustion engines that need 'gearing up' to obtain one speed set then another, the ONLY lag a gauss weapon has, is the initial inertia to over come, and that inertial mass is mostly negated by the ENTIRE mass being accelerated almost instantaneously from all its "mass" being affected simultainously by said magnetic fields, no charge build up at all, dead stop to hyper velocity in an instant,

IF balance is the issue, then fix the C/D rates and all is well, no need tweek heat/damage and other such crap

[Alek Ituin]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

I like a slightly different approach:

Projectile Velocity: hitscan beam
Beam Duration: 0.2 seconds
Damage 10/10/15 (PPC/ERPPC/CERPPC)
Heat: 10/12.5/15
Cool-down: 3.75/4.25/4.75 seconds

Notes: On pull of the trigger, the gun will take 0.25 seconds to spool up before firing. This is a committed action that the player cannot cancel. You pull the trigger, and you are along for the ride until it fires.

It is a particle accelerator, after all, not a slug-thrower.

What, you mean PPC's behaving in a lore-accurate manner?

It might shake up the laser vomit meta...

[Y E O N N E]

tangles 253, on 09 January 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

i like this more, however i would ommit the .25 spool up time.

It sounds more in like with the lore unleashing lightening description of the ppc

Spool up adds flavor and also prevents you from easily cheesing with a 20-damage, de facto PPFLD, hitscan blaster using jump-jets. You could still pop-tart, but it'll take a lot more practice to get the timing down, and that's the point.

Honestly, I roll my eyes at everyone who is against charge up on principle. It's like they've never played any other shooters, most of which have several weapons with varying fire modes. UT's Link Gun, Ion Painter, Bio Rifle, Rocket Launcher, and Shock Rifle all come to mind. There are also the MAG Cannon and TAG Cannon in Battlezone, the Particle Accelerator Cannon in Heavy Gear 2, and many, many others.

[VinJade]

@Yakka
You are using logic which is lost on many.

but you do make a good point about something that is 'over used', yet we see love from paul who allows the over use of ER LLs which are over powered for their weight, heat produced, and crit size.

that was the balancer of weapons, such as the ER/PPC 7 tons 10/15 heat, three crits, and need a lot of heat sinks to offset the heat.

However Yeonne Greene this is not THOSE games. you may roll your eyes but you are the type of person that wants to make every game the same as what ever stupid game you like that has those weapons in them.

like those types of weapons leave and play the games that have them.

this is MECHWARRIOR supposedly a BATTLETECH game, BT and all MW games that came before this one never had 'charged weapons' they stayed as true to the source as they could(Something MW:O has tried to claim).

you want a charged weapon game then go play those and stop trying to turn MWO into another bland shooter game.

Edited by VinJade, 09 January 2016 - 05:10 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

The implication that the previous MW games in anyway govern or merely accurately represent the technical fluff is hilarious.

[VinJade]

how long have you been with BT?

I have read the stuff, I grew UP with Battletech, I have been playing since 1987, and have stuck with it so unless TW has changed it, there is NOTHING that says it is manually charged.

Hell a few years back Someone asked Herb and Coleman if the GR, PPCs, Lasers, ect. was self charged or had to be charged.

Herb and Coleman had said they was automatically charged.

and guess what? they are the writers, they are the creators, and they are the powers that be.
they covered this on the old boards before they crashed so guess what? you are over ruled.
thus both the GR & PPCs are auto charged.
do you really think they could manually charge rotary GRs that the clans have?

besides name ONE Battletech novel written by Loren, Herb, ect that has them needing charged by the pilot.

Edited by VinJade, 09 January 2016 - 05:38 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

A.) The MechWarrior franchise has invented its own interpretations and rules for BattleTech many times over

B.) Define "manually charge." We're talking about holding a damn button, not pedaling a bicycle to provide juice and spin barrels. What I have proposed is still auto-charging, because you don't have to hold anything. All you have to do is tell the 'Mech that you want to fire and it will take care of the rest. You just make sure the targeting systems stay locked (AKA, keep the damn thing pointed in the right direction)

C.) Trailer for this game's concept pictured PPCs with a quick spool-up

D.) I suppose that means PPCs ought to explode when destroyed, like Gauss, because of all that energy stored in the caps...oh wait, the writers are a bunch of ignoramuses and couldn't craft a consistent set of in-universe mechanics if their lives depended on it.

You are treating the likes of Stackpole as gospel, a rather repugnant concept.

[VinJade]

yes the MW line has done that a few times the only thing that remained constant is that nether of those weapons was ever charged. yeah it is a button however if you charge it too long it resets and have to do it all over again.

besides this game clams to be part of Battletech unlike all the others then yes the rules should apply when it comes to weapons and being manually charged or not.

Once charge they DON'T have to be recharged until fired PGI already doesn't seem to understand that ether. besides why should we have to pay just to make you few happy?

how about this then two options one it auto charges like normal & the other manually charged. the one auto charged is normal time to recharge while the Manual charge is faster at recharge.

both parties would be happy with this.

other on a side note I find it funny how you tried to say something is in lore, then when confronted you side step it with some other lame attempt to say why it should be charged.

also their stuff has remained more or less constant save for one or two things at most, but to try and discredit them just shows you are grasping at straws.

I don't like stockpole, he betrayed BT by working for SW the very franchise that tried to kill BT when it was still known as battledroids.

however he is still A BT writer none the less.

I go by the others.

you should learn not to try and play the lore game with Us BT players who are called lore purest for a reason. We know our lore and have been playing far longer than most here.

Edited by VinJade, 09 January 2016 - 05:58 PM.