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Advanced Target Decay Vs Radar Deprivation


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#1 Xetelian

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:29 PM

Does Radar Dep. give you instant drop against ATDecay?

Does one counter the other?

I searched the forums and a few people said you get 1.5 seconds of targeting time vs a Radar Dep. carrying mech.

I also posted on the new players forums but still no response, I know general discussion has more eyeballs so I was hoping to get this answer quickly here.

New players are asking on the Steam forums and I had trouble finding the right answer.

#2 Revis Volek

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:31 PM

I'm pretty sure they cancel each other out and its like no one has modules...but i could be wrong.

Adv Decay will hold a lock for a bit when it goes behind cover if the mech doesnt have Radar Derp, and vice versa. If target has Radar Derp and shooter doesnt have Adv Decay then he looses lock instantly when LOS is lost even if its for a second or so.


I'm pretty sure if both pilots have the modules then like i said above its as if no one has modules.


Some one will be along shortly to correct me if im wrong. :P

Edited by DarthRevis, 09 January 2016 - 03:45 PM.


#3 Monkey Lover

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:39 PM

What I seen when lrming with the delay module you get a 100% drop once in cover.

#4 Xetelian

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 04:27 PM

http://mwomercs.com/...d-target-decay/

http://mwomercs.com/...v-target-decay/

http://mwomercs.com/...cay-radar-derp/

http://mwomercs.com/...the-new-player/



Still not conclusive.

Anyone really know?

#5 Aramoro999

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 04:47 PM

View PostXetelian, on 09 January 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

Does Radar Dep. give you instant drop against ATDecay?


Yes...TargetDecay is 100% useless coz every1 has radar dep.


They nerf radar dep when the sensor range quirks come out, it will be some % instead of 100.

#6 Tarogato

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 05:03 PM

Jman5, who is pretty much the reigning expert at LRMs, claims the Target Decay cancels out Radar Derp. I'll try and poke him and get him to reply with his evidence.

#7 Satan n stuff

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 05:44 PM

View PostTarogato, on 09 January 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

Jman5, who is pretty much the reigning expert at LRMs, claims the Target Decay cancels out Radar Derp. I'll try and poke him and get him to reply with his evidence.

I'll back him up on that, not that he needs it. Bring target decay and you will never instalose locks.
As for the actual numbers, I do not know all of them at this time. Smurfy is most unhelpful as it doesn't list any number for radar dep, though it does list the target decay and adv. target decay bonuses at 2.75s and 3.5s respectively, producing a maximum decay time of 5s as the base decay time is 1.5s.

#8 The Trojan Titan

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 05:45 PM

It doesn't cancel Radar Dep, but it does give you 3 seconds of lockon time after they go into cover.

Still not enough to effectively 1 man LRMboat against a half smart player with Radar Dep, but better than nothing, and absolutely essential for scouting duty.

#9 Sandpit

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 05:53 PM

View PostAramoro999, on 09 January 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:


Yes...TargetDecay is 100% useless coz every1 has radar dep.


They nerf radar dep when the sensor range quirks come out, it will be some % instead of 100.

I hate blanket statements like this when it comes to strategies in MWO.

No, EVERYONE, does not run radar dep

I can understand if you personally think it's "useless" but lets keep the hyperbole to a min when giving advice and such to newer players.

Radar dep is extremely useful in certain cases, but not in others, and is most definitely not a "required" module, regardless of what your personal opinion on it is Posted Image

Target decay depends on the mech in my opinion. If a dedicated lurm boat, I'll run it because it can be extremely useful, especially in PUB drops because target locks can be so fleeting if the team isn't very coordinated. It gives you more time to get a salvo off on an enemy mech.

EDIT:
As far as cancelling one another out, I've never seen anything definitve and specific from PGI on it. I'd be interested to know for sure as well.

Edited by Sandpit, 09 January 2016 - 05:54 PM.


#10 Jman5

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 05:55 PM

Without Target decay against an opponent with Radar Deprivation you lose lock instantly.

Without Target Decay against a vanilla target you get about 2.25 seconds after losing Line of Sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a vanilla target, you get something like 4.75 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a target with Radar Deprivation you get about 2.25 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock

However the mechanics are technically working, it helps to just think of it as if the two modules nullify each other and bring you back to base values. Its possible these numbers might be off by +/- 0.25 seconds since I tested this stuff by hand with a stop watch, but you guys get the idea.

Edited by Jman5, 09 January 2016 - 06:21 PM.


#11 Sandpit

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 06:26 PM

View PostJman5, on 09 January 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

Without Target decay against an opponent with Radar Deprivation you lose lock instantly.

Without Target Decay against a vanilla target you get about 2.25 seconds after losing Line of Sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a vanilla target, you get something like 4.75 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a target with Radar Deprivation you get about 2.25 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock

However the mechanics are technically working, it helps to just think of it as if the two modules nullify each other and bring you back to base values. Its possible these numbers might be off by +/- 0.25 seconds since I tested this stuff by hand with a stop watch, but you guys get the idea.

thank you sir!

I'd still like to see the "technical" explanation from PGI Posted Image

#12 Xetelian

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 06:41 PM

View PostJman5, on 09 January 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

Without Target decay against an opponent with Radar Deprivation you lose lock instantly.

Without Target Decay against a vanilla target you get about 2.25 seconds after losing Line of Sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a vanilla target, you get something like 4.75 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a target with Radar Deprivation you get about 2.25 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock

However the mechanics are technically working, it helps to just think of it as if the two modules nullify each other and bring you back to base values. Its possible these numbers might be off by +/- 0.25 seconds since I tested this stuff by hand with a stop watch, but you guys get the idea.



You should update the Wiki. This information should be available everywhere.

#13 Xetelian

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 09:10 AM

Jman5 is my hero.

Wish they would give us a straight answer with out us having to test things with a stopwatch. Setting up
1 None vs None.
2.ATD vs No RDep.
3 ATD vs RDep.
4. None vs RDep

This sounds like a pain.

#14 Prokust

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 09:46 AM

Spotters with atd module stack their bonuses with lrm-carriers that use atd modules too...afaik. Guess we should mention that too ;)

#15 Jman5

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 10:24 AM

I think it's possible that advanced target decay is giving a bigger benefit than was intended. I never mentioned it before because I thought it was pretty balanced with radar deprivation and didn't want to screw things up.

Also, if anyone is curious about LRM travel time (without missile velocity quirk) it can give you some general rules of thumb for how close you ought to be for a reliable hit.

300 meters: 2.0 seconds
400 meters: 2.75 seconds
500 meters: 3.5 seconds
600 meters: 4.4 seconds (ish)
700 meters: 5.0 seconds
800 meters: 5.5 seconds

So if you have advanced target decay and your opponent has radar deprivation, you probably want to get within 400 meters to reliably hit him. Without radar deprivation you can usually hit something ducking into and out of cover with your own lock from as far as 700 meters with advanced target decay. With a 10% missile velocity quirk, you can probably bump the time up by 1. So 800 meters takes 5 seconds, 700 meters take 4.5 seconds, etc

Edited by Jman5, 10 January 2016 - 10:25 AM.


#16 Catalina Steiner

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 06:33 AM

View PostJman5, on 09 January 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

Without Target decay against an opponent with Radar Deprivation you lose lock instantly.

Without Target Decay against a vanilla target you get about 2.25 seconds after losing Line of Sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a vanilla target, you get something like 4.75 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a target with Radar Deprivation you get about 2.25 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock

However the mechanics are technically working, it helps to just think of it as if the two modules nullify each other and bring you back to base values. Its possible these numbers might be off by +/- 0.25 seconds since I tested this stuff by hand with a stop watch, but you guys get the idea.

View PostXetelian, on 10 January 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

Jman5 is my hero.

Wish they would give us a straight answer with out us having to test things with a stopwatch. Setting up
1 None vs None.
2.ATD vs No RDep.
3 ATD vs RDep.
4. None vs RDep

This sounds like a pain.


I knew that Jman5 was right here but I couldn't wait to prove this by myself. Therefore I have created test videos and yes, it wasn't fun at all. But it was worth it... for science!!! Jman5 is right and it's viewable now.

Here is the post: Target Decay vs. Radar Deprivation

#17 Xetelian

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 07:28 PM

Real work being done around here, the Wiki should be updated but I don't know how to do it

#18 DAYLEET

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 11:11 PM

It's ridiculous that you need a module to break the lock when you break the line of sight. In any case, if you need the advanced target decay, you are most likely out of place and the kind of lrm boat people hate to have on their team.

#19 SnagaDance

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 12:48 AM

Jman5 is entirely correct.

And from personal experience I can say it's extremely satisfying to smack LRM's into people who think their Radar Derp insta-shields them. The accusations of Hax have been especially sweet. Posted Image

But then again I'm one of those people that mostly gets his own locks, stays at 300-500 meters and isn't afraid to sacrifice his armor for the good of the team.

Sometimes it's just satisfying to use a weapon system that's different from ppfld or laser vomit. Posted Image

#20 El Bandito

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:50 AM

View PostDAYLEET, on 25 May 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

In any case, if you need the advanced target decay, you are most likely out of place and the kind of lrm boat people hate to have on their team.


Without ATD, the lock will be broken instantly by Raderp. In that case one might as well not bring any LRMs at all. Just a thin metal pillar can cause the loss of a lock even if parts of the enemy mech is still visible. Therefore, if one uses LRMs to chiefly deal damage, ATD is a must.

Also, ATD is not only useful when combined with LRMs, it can help to lock the enemy long enough to read its paperdoll and loadouts before the lock is broken--which is valuable to the team.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 May 2016 - 01:57 AM.






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