135 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

As is, it's pretty nasty in a brawl, more so than anything else it's weight that I can think of. This resize will absolutely breath life in to the chassis.

not really. the clan double heatsink capacity nerf and the heat skill tree nerfs completely castrated the nova.

the nova needs more than just a rescale. it needs quirks that restore its heat dissipation/heat capacity back to what they used to be.

[mogs01gt]

adamts01, on 11 January 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

You're out of the loop, probably playing the wrong IS mechs. Watch any comp matches from the past month. I'm not going to jump on the "IS OP" bandwagon because there still are some Clan mechs but IS does have an edge. Competition players know what works better than anyone, and IS is dominating that scene. Plus, all the big teams didn't switch to IS after all these quirk passes for no reason.

using exploits created by poor balancing doesnt make over quirked mechs better. Clan mechs are far superior in almost every category. The worst clan mechs are still vastly better than the worst IS mechs.

[Ghogiel]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 January 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

If there is an advantage on one side right now it is marginal.

It's pretty apparent which side that is. It's not huge wtfbbq, ACH and TBRs are still getting a look in in comp, but most mechs are IS now. I personally like it. Was tired of TBR and SCR spam. :>

[adamts01]

mogs01gt, on 12 January 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

using exploits created by poor balancing doesnt make over quirked mechs better. Clan mechs are far superior in almost every category. The worst clan mechs are still vastly better than the worst IS mechs.

Quirks aside, sure, Clan would be better. Is that what you're trying to say?

All I'm stating is that, exploit or not, comp players take the most powerful mech, and right now those are almost entirely IS chassis.

[adamts01]

Moenrg, on 12 January 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

Then you're not thinking hard enough, I'd rather have a BJ-1X over any Nova in a brawl.

True, that assault core is pretty tough...

Khobai, on 12 January 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

not really. the clan double heatsink capacity nerf and the heat skill tree nerfs completely castrated the nova.

the nova needs more than just a rescale. it needs quirks that restore its heat dissipation/heat capacity back to what they used to be.

I find my Clan energy boats just as effective after this "nerf," as their heatsinks got a dissipation boost. Call me crazy, I like the higher dps.

[Gas Guzzler]

Ghogiel, on 12 January 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

It's pretty apparent which side that is. It's not huge wtfbbq, ACH and TBRs are still getting a look in in comp, but most mechs are IS now. I personally like it. Was tired of TBR and SCR spam. :>

But in terms of CW, everyone saying "its utterly impossible to play clans because IS mechs are so OP" is full of ****.

[Ghogiel]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

But in terms of CW, everyone saying "its utterly impossible to play clans because IS mechs are so OP" is full of ****.

True. Up until the equal tonnage thing I was laughing at the imbalance though. No it's not bad because the clan heavies are monsters in CW.

[Khobai]

Quote

I find my Clan energy boats just as effective after this "nerf," as their heatsinks got a dissipation boost. Call me crazy, I like the higher dps.

Except they didnt get a dissipation boost, because of the skill tree nerfs.

there was a net loss of both dissipation and capacity

so im not really sure what youre talking about. clan mechs definitely got worse after the nerfs.

Quote

using exploits created by poor balancing doesnt make over quirked mechs better. Clan mechs are far superior in almost every category. The worst clan mechs are still vastly better than the worst IS mechs.

but no one plays the worst mechs so thats irrelevant.

Edited by Khobai, 12 January 2016 - 10:37 PM.

[Moldur]

Clans are worse off than IS right now.

IS got boosted up too much, clans got knocked down too much. The two have marginally switched places rather than met in the middle.

[Revis Volek]

Khobai, on 12 January 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

Except they didnt get a dissipation boost, because of the skill tree nerfs.

there was a net loss of both dissipation and capacity

so im not really sure what youre talking about. clan mechs definitely got worse after the nerfs.



but no one plays the worst mechs so thats irrelevant.

All mechs got skill tree nerf, not just clans.

yes they are worse, that was and is the point of a nerf.


Noobs who dont know any better use bad mechs.

Edited by DarthRevis, 13 January 2016 - 12:15 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 12 January 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

True. Up until the equal tonnage thing I was laughing at the imbalance though. No it's not bad because the clan heavies are monsters in CW.

There still is no heavy that can really compete with the Timber Wolf. You can get some situational advantages in a Blackjack or a BLR 1S but, depending on preference, a deck of 4x EBJ or 3x TW and 1 ACH is a mountain of face-unwanted-sexual-attention.

Pugging you can tell the difference by such a huge amount now. The people who actually learned to play good Clan mechs are even more aggressive than before, pushing hard and brutal. The people who cry 'IS OP' are the guys in the back, poking at 1500m or trying to face-tank an Atlas in their Warhawk.

Ironically, IS bads are still bad. I had a match yesterday where 9 people on my team didn't break 800. 5 were below 500. Out of 4 mechs. You would think if you wandered around, shooting at random you would by sheer luck hit more mechs for more damage than that. We were playing against another pug team BTW. While teamwork is OP, you still need to be able to shoot **** with your guns at some point.

Conversely while pugging the Clan side in an alt this evening in CW I won every single match. I never dropped with a team having more than 3 players in a unit. Every single match someone called the drop, every single match we played as a team and flat out demolished the enemy.

I guess not sucking is OP?

[Wolfways]

MischiefSC, on 13 January 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

Conversely while pugging the Clan side in an alt this evening in CW I won every single match. I never dropped with a team having more than 3 players in a unit. Every single match someone called the drop, every single match we played as a team and flat out demolished the enemy.

I guess not sucking is OP?

I wish I could get on clan teams like that more than once every 20 or so matches

[Lily from animove]

pwnface, on 11 January 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

Really? Shrinking a mech might make it worse?

Seriously, the amount of downs on these forums is staggering sometimes.

if you don't undertsand why making a mech smaller and therefore getting the hardpoints lower in relation to the landscape is a downside you are truly right with your statement.

Ghogiel, on 12 January 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

It's pretty apparent which side that is. It's not huge wtfbbq, ACH and TBRs are still getting a look in in comp, but most mechs are IS now. I personally like it. Was tired of TBR and SCR spam. :>

you like it now, but soon get tired of that as well. There needs to be a proper balance between a larger variety of mechs, not just the handful "flavour of the month"

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 January 2016 - 05:42 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Khobai, on 12 January 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

but no one plays the worst mechs so thats irrelevant.

Negative. It shows that clan tech is still more efficient in MWO.

Crow > mediums
TBR/Hellbringer still debated as best heavy but the margin is closer.
DWF > assaults

Hell the worst Clan mech in each weight class is still vastly superior to the worse IS mech in the same class.

adamts01, on 12 January 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

Quirks aside, sure, Clan would be better. Is that what you're trying to say?
All I'm stating is that, exploit or not, comp players take the most powerful mech, and right now those are almost entirely IS chassis.

The quirks are there to keep up with the power creep of clan tech. Over quirking certain IS makes them "powerful", more efficient is a better term to use IMO, but that was done because Clan tech is superior.

[adamts01]

mogs01gt, on 13 January 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Crow > mediums
TBR/Hellbringer still debated as best heavy but the margin is closer.
DWF > assaults

Those aren't the mechs that win in competitions. It's all about blackjacks, quickdraws, cheetahs/firestarters, stalkers/atlas.

[Khobai]

Quote

Negative. It shows that clan tech is still more efficient in MWO.

No it doesnt because its strong quirks that balance the best IS mechs against the best clan mechs.

The worst IS mechs dont have strong quirks.

Its not proof that clan tech is more efficient. Its proof that trying to balance the game with quirks is stupid.

Quote

The quirks are there to keep up with the power creep of clan tech. Over quirking certain IS makes them "powerful", more efficient is a better term to use IMO, but that was done because Clan tech is superior.

except clan tech isnt superior because of quirks.

Edited by Khobai, 13 January 2016 - 06:50 AM.

[mogs01gt]

adamts01, on 13 January 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

Those aren't the mechs that win in competitions. It's all about blackjacks, quickdraws, cheetahs/firestarters, stalkers/atlas.

No-ne cares about competition play. PUG play is what sustains this game and where balancing needs focused. This isnt an Esport, yet, so balancing at the "competitive" level is asinine.

QD and BJ are still **** mechs that have to rely on over quirked mechanics to be useful.

[TKSax]

mogs01gt, on 13 January 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

No-ne cares about competition play. PUG play is what sustains this game and where balancing needs focused. This isnt an Esport, yet, so balancing at the "competitive" level is asinine.

And this is where you are wrong, You may not care about comp play but if you do not balance from the top down (skill level wise) you are going to leave huge balancing holes. Top Level players will use the mechanics in the games a lot of normal players will not think of, and imbalance a match/game.

So what if the QD and BJ have to rely on quirks that is part of balance the game and giving the IS a chance they have not had since the clans were introduced. There will be more changes the will continue to change. you will never achive perfect balance. Things a getting closer every time, and you can never have true balance unless everyone is driving the same mech with the weapons and nobody wants that.

With the amount of mechs in the game I think it will always be impossible to not have some poor performers and some top performers, for CW you should always take the top Performers, yea I know you love awesome's and want to take those, but be prepared to get hammered if you do. You should always take the mechs you perform best in, into CW because with out match making you may face people who always bring the best mechs and the one they perform best in.

Edited by TKSax, 13 January 2016 - 07:16 AM.

[adamts01]

mogs01gt, on 13 January 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

No-ne cares about competition play. PUG play is what sustains this game and where balancing needs focused. This isnt an Esport, yet, so balancing at the "competitive" level is asinine.

QD and BJ are still **** mechs that have to rely on over quirked mechanics to be useful.

I'm not saying anyone cares about competitions, just that those players min/max everything and know which chassis are the most powerful, due to quirks or whatever.

I don't know much about the QuickDraw. But I wouldn't call the Blackjack a **** mech. It high mounted weapons and can boat many of the same thing. That characteristic has always been sought after. And yes, quirks are why it's so popular at the moment.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 12 January 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

Except they didnt get a dissipation boost, because of the skill tree nerfs.

there was a net loss of both dissipation and capacity

so im not really sure what youre talking about. clan mechs definitely got worse after the nerfs.

...heat efficiencies weren't touched...

On a 25cDHS mech, you lost 6% heat cap (less than an ERML's worth of heat) and gained 3% dissipation.
A 10 TrueDub mech (of either faction) was not touched at all.

Only PoorDubs were changed, and as seen above, it's barely worth mentioning.