135 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Clan mechs are balanced better than they've ever been. The good teams are dominating in Clan mechs as well as they dominate in good IS mechs. The real issue is people getting used to better Clan mechs carrying them against IS mechs. In pug/group queue and CW matches against comparable teams it's closer than it's ever been.

Which really is the problem. Balance has been broken for 2 years and that's what people are used to. Of course it feels off now.

[Wolfways]

Mcgral18, on 10 January 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Psst...only 2 Clam lasers deal less Dam/tick than their IS counterparts. The LPL and MPL.

Everything else does equal, or greater, Dam/tick. At universally greater range.


Then everything changed when the Quirks attacked.

But clan lasers also mean longer face-time, and it's not like lasers can pile on the damage while facing the enemy like AC's can.
Range doesn't mean much to me when mechs can get close to you in seconds because of the small maps and short weapon ranges.

But....everyone on the forums seem to play different games. I sometimes wonder why there are balance "discussions"

[Wolfways]

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Clan mechs are balanced better than they've ever been. The good teams are dominating in Clan mechs as well as they dominate in good IS mechs. The real issue is people getting used to better Clan mechs carrying them against IS mechs. In pug/group queue and CW matches against comparable teams it's closer than it's ever been.

Which really is the problem. Balance has been broken for 2 years and that's what people are used to. Of course it feels off now.

Feels off to me and I wasn't playing when clan mechs were OP.
The weapons still feel as unbalanced as they did after open beta. LRM's and PPC's still suck and AC's are OP...the IS ones anyway, I haven't tried the clan AC's yet.

[MischiefSC]

Wolfways, on 10 January 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

Feels off to me and I wasn't playing when clan mechs were OP.
The weapons still feel as unbalanced as they did after open beta. LRM's and PPC's still suck and AC's are OP...the IS ones anyway, I haven't tried the clan AC's yet.

IS AC are still inferior to gauss save on a couple of niche builds. Clans can easily keep up with IS. I'm playing on an alt late at night when IS goes quiet in Davion space. Running Clan trials I've averaged between 1500 and 2k damage and won almost every single match. I have now bought 2 EBJs for my drop deck entirely on 23 CW matches and a handful of pug drops. Dire, ACH, (both trial) and 2 EBJs. One lpl +gauss and 1 x 2lpl, 5 spl. Unless I'm filling in as a pug on a 8man+ kcom, 228 et al drop (they are just too quick to secure kills, it's hard to keep up) it's easy to farm the crap out of IS.

My Timberwolf is still the only sub-assault I have that can keep up on my main account with my WubShee.

In pug/group queue Clan mechs keep up just fine. In CW Clans do great - in the hands of people who play to their strengths and don't try to play like Clans are op.

Make an alt. Drop in CJF in trials. Dire, TW, ACH and Scat (you'll never use the Scat unless you've already lost). Just see how they play and what they play. They are wrecking face as Clanners against a huge population disparity. Tons of drops vs organized units.

[Ted Wayz]

Wolfways, on 10 January 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

But clan lasers also mean longer face-time, and it's not like lasers can pile on the damage while facing the enemy like AC's can.
Range doesn't mean much to me when mechs can get close to you in seconds because of the small maps and short weapon ranges.

But....everyone on the forums seem to play different games. I sometimes wonder why there are balance "discussions"

Yeah, that extended face time is a ***** when it involves 50 tons of pod space and a triple digit alpha. How do Clanners cope?

I'm thinking we need a fund raiser for these po po Clanners. Little Johnny can barely scratch together two alphas with 6 medium pulse lasers and a Gauss at 500m. Please send in your c-bills so Johnny can get the quirks that his Timberwolf deserves.

[Dingo Battler]

Beyond the e-peen screenshot posts, clans are pretty weird. Their good mechs are outstanding, cheater, timbergod, doomcrow and (maybe) dire are pretty much the cutting-edge tier 1 meta mechs.

This makes the other mechs look so much worse because of fixed engine or special equipment. executioner, summoner, all lights other than cheater, etc. are pretty far below in the meta. I know most people would love to strip the JJs of the summoner, but unfortunately, you cannot do that with this iconic mech.

The only middle-of-the-road mechs for clans are probably shadowcat and ebon jaguar. SHC because its actually fast enough to make good use of MASC, and EBJ because its a lighter timbergod clone.

Ultimately, even their bad mechs are still acceptable, especially compared to the poorer IS variants.

Edited by KBurn85, 10 January 2016 - 06:18 PM.

[Sandpit]

Kshahdoo, on 10 January 2016 - 01:30 AM, said:

I mean, it looks like most of them are just pieces of junk. Or at least, artificially worsened to the state of disaster.

Let's take Executioner. It has a firepower of Timber Wolf (or even less). Of course it can carry a lot of armor, and supposed to be very fast and agile. But it isn't. MASC sucks, it's nowhere as good as in Battletech, jump jets suck as well. So it's 12 tonns (and some slots) of suckage, I could use to mount more guns or heat sinks.

Yeah, at the first glance developers follow the canon, but actually this game doesn't have anything in common with the canon. Because if you follow the canon, you must literally follow it. But if you've changed it in many ways, it's just stupid to not change other things as well.

DarthRevis, on 10 January 2016 - 01:39 AM, said:

What ya saying about my big sEXE gurl?

Point being, individual mileage in mechs may vary depending on the pilot in that mech

/thread

[Wolfways]

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

IS AC are still inferior to gauss save on a couple of niche builds. Clans can easily keep up with IS. I'm playing on an alt late at night when IS goes quiet in Davion space. Running Clan trials I've averaged between 1500 and 2k damage and won almost every single match. I have now bought 2 EBJs for my drop deck entirely on 23 CW matches and a handful of pug drops. Dire, ACH, (both trial) and 2 EBJs. One lpl +gauss and 1 x 2lpl, 5 spl. Unless I'm filling in as a pug on a 8man+ kcom, 228 et al drop (they are just too quick to secure kills, it's hard to keep up) it's easy to farm the crap out of IS.

My Timberwolf is still the only sub-assault I have that can keep up on my main account with my WubShee.

In pug/group queue Clan mechs keep up just fine. In CW Clans do great - in the hands of people who play to their strengths and don't try to play like Clans are op.

Make an alt. Drop in CJF in trials. Dire, TW, ACH and Scat (you'll never use the Scat unless you've already lost). Just see how they play and what they play. They are wrecking face as Clanners against a huge population disparity. Tons of drops vs organized units.

I have no interest in how well Groups use mechs. I only drop solo or with my wife and well....all players in quick drops suck.

Ted Wayz, on 10 January 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

Yeah, that extended face time is a ***** when it involves 50 tons of pod space and a triple digit alpha. How do Clanners cope?

I'm thinking we need a fund raiser for these po po Clanners. Little Johnny can barely scratch together two alphas with 6 medium pulse lasers and a Gauss at 500m. Please send in your c-bills so Johnny can get the quirks that his Timberwolf deserves.

Triple digit alpha? lol Not even close as I'm not a meta *****.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

VinJade, on 10 January 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

the thing is this --->
See where they call it a Battletech Game?
it is miss leading as it is not a battletech game at all no where close to it, claiming to be means they should be following the lore, time lines, mechs, ect.

they however do not. they only take the names of mechs and the equipment and that's it.
nothing more.

so it should be ether or. drop the 'A battletech game' or follow what has been preset.

Are you a Gyrok alt?

[MischiefSC]

Wolfways, on 10 January 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

I have no interest in how well Groups use mechs. I only drop solo or with my wife and well....all players in quick drops suck.


Triple digit alpha? lol Not even close as I'm not a meta *****.

Not about how groups play. From what I've seen they mostly race each other for kills and damage. Just look at what the top scores ran and how they played.

That's all I do. On my alt I just scoot quietly along and try to keep up. Go where you're told, shoot who you're told.

You want to know what works watch the people who are winning.

[Revis Volek]

Sandpit, on 10 January 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

Point being, individual mileage in mechs may vary depending on the pilot in that mech

/thread

exactly my point...

[Sandpit]

DarthRevis, on 10 January 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

exactly my point...

Trust me sir, I know

[Mazzyplz]

Lupis Volk, on 10 January 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

Oddly i do okay in my Timber wolves.

maybe it's because i'm not a Clanner...but i enjoy my Clan mechs.

this is the truth.

if you have been from the inner sphere long enough and are not spoiled by the clan mechs, you don't see any problem with clan mechs.
my nova is a beast, actually

even though it moves soo slow. it comes with so many lasers and jumpjets for a reason you know? to play to it's strengths will do it.

[Khobai]

Its pretty hard to argue the executioner doesnt suck with 12 tons of jumpjets and masc as an anchor around its neck.

JJs and MASC definitely need to be improved.

Quote

Clan mechs are balanced better than they've ever been.

Maybe clan mechs are fine. But IS mechs definitely arnt balanced with their absurd weapon/structure quirks.

the problem with using quirks to balance the game is that its made balance completely lopsided to the point where a friggin blackjack has the same structure as a highlander.

quirks need to get thrown out as a balancing mechanism. they need to balance IS and clan tech at the base level.

Edited by Khobai, 10 January 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Khobai, on 10 January 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

Its pretty hard to argue the executioner doesnt suck with 12 tons of jumpjets and masc as an anchor around its neck.

It only sucks if the pilot doesnt know how to use the JJ's and MASC to full effect. Its not a noob ride. You have to know what it can and can not do, and you have to be good at piloting a fast, mobile, gigantic target. 13 energy with its pod space available is actually very devastating in the right hands with the right build. Alot of people dont understand the lower podspace high energy hardpoint clan meta for the Nova, Gargoyle, and Executioner, but it is there.

In other words, the Executioner is not for noobs, and the only people that will complain about it, are noobs. L2P.

Edited by Alwrath, 10 January 2016 - 07:45 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 10 January 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

Its pretty hard to argue the executioner doesnt suck with 12 tons of jumpjets and masc as an anchor around its neck.

JJs and MASC definitely need to be improved.



Maybe clan mechs are fine. But IS mechs definitely arnt balanced with their absurd weapon/structure quirks.

the problem with using quirks to balance the game is that its made balance completely lopsided to the point where a friggin blackjack has the same structure as a highlander.

quirks need to get thrown out as a balancing mechanism. they need to balance IS and clan tech at the base level.

A Timber Wolf has the firepower of a Mauler, or better. Also with the speed of a Dragon. All with the survivability of an STD engine Catapult (which isn't bad).

Oh, wait. TOTES DIFFERENT I know, right?

BJs could stand some dialing back of internal structure a bit. It's about equal to 10pts of armor on the torsos due to how crits work. Lets them tank about like a Scrow, just they still die with a ST loss.

I'd much rather they buff up a IS 55 tonner so we have a better balanced drop deck symmetry.

[Revis Volek]

Khobai, on 10 January 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

Its pretty hard to argue the executioner doesnt suck with 12 tons of jumpjets and masc as an anchor around its neck.

JJs and MASC definitely need to be improved.



Maybe clan mechs are fine. But IS mechs definitely arnt balanced with their absurd weapon/structure quirks.

the problem with using quirks to balance the game is that its made balance completely lopsided to the point where a friggin blackjack has the same structure as a highlander.

quirks need to get thrown out as a balancing mechanism. they need to balance IS and clan tech at the base level.

I can argue it, i think i have been this whole time.

Do JJ's pretty much suck, yea.

Is MASC not really worth it yet, yea.

Would the EXE be better with this stuff if it was worth it weight, hell yea. But i think we all agree there.

[Kshahdoo]

nehebkau, on 10 January 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Ok, first off -- THIS ISN'T A BT GAME ITS BASED ON BT!

Battle tech uses dice MWO doesn't. Much of the game-play in TT-BT was balanced around a random number generator and that doesn't work in MWO. The sooner people get used to the idea that things need to be changed from TT-BT to MWO the sooner people will stop getting their ginch in a knot.

In regards to Clan mechs -- Much of the clan issues would be resolved if PGI simply unlocked the Endo and Ferro on clan mechs.

Ok, it isn't a BT game, I understand it pretty well. So why don't they strip Executioner from a useless ******** then? Why don't they let us use our tonage for something better than some idiotic equipment?

[pwnface]

Actually, I find MASC to be incredibly useful on the EXE, I don't think it's wasted tonnage at all.

Quick humblebrag for Gas Guzzler here, don't tell him Executioners are bad:

[LordNothing]

there are really only 2 or 3 mechs that give clan a reputaion as op. a lot of other mechs are just garbage. and to be fair you can say the same thing about the is too.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 January 2016 - 03:16 AM.