100 replies to this topic

[beerandasmoke]

I dont believe he was paid by Davion either. He reminds me a lot of that Prussian Havoc guy that was paying mercs to stir stuff up in the North. I think he was down here trying to set up a powerbase with a handful of mercs. When **** went south he bailed and is now making excuses for the failure.

[Wildstreak]

Strange thing, this eSeifer dude still shows as Liao.

ThomasMarik, on 13 January 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

What we get from allying ourselves with Liao is a 2 front war. Davion and Liao. What we get from allying ourself with Davion is a 1 front war. Liao.

Marik allies with Davion = 1 front war with Liao not counting Steiner & Kurita.
Marik allies with Liao = 1 front war with Davion not counting Steiner & Kurita.

Where exactly is this 2 front war with Davion and Liao with 1 of them an ally?
Unless you want Davion and Liao to ally, hmmmmm.

[MovinTarget]

He means that even if you ally with Liao, you still run the risk of fighting with them as evident this whole episode.

I say risk b/c maybe they wouldn't, after you mend fences and get planets back....














But you'd still always be looking over your shoulder.

[multisoul]

its just a flesh wound keep going

[wanderer]

I've gotten three random requests from merc units that weren't aligned with Capellan Confederation a month ago to join up with their units (I stay tagless to avoid being biased towards one or another, as the Confederation is what matters)

In one case, literally saying "So you can whack some (sic) purple pidgeons.". The other two, as far as I can tell haven't touched a single Davion world and have exclusively been attacking Marik planets. None of them were names or players I was familiar with.

Thanks to not having any ability to leash units, as far as I can tell the Confederation is being used as a proxy to attack Marik and these new units are actively attempting to recruit Liao PUGs, either as new unit members or simply to assault FWL worlds, and the resulting chaos is enough to stir up regular units who have no idea what's going on at the PUG level of things.

This is a fundamental flaw in CW. It's hosed a relationship Liao and Marik have maintained for months if not years at this point. Given the only faction that benefits, as far as I can tell we are literally being used by Davion to attack Marik by proxy, to lure Liao PUGs into thinking this is the status quo, and there is very little we can do about it as it's gotten to the point of flinging poop each other's ways and the actual Liao players not wanting to fight/just getting pissy about the whole idiotic situation while the PUGs and proxy mercs go at it full bore with Marik- and naturally now that the FWL is hitting back, losing.

[Karl Marlow]

It isn't the mercs. When the mercs started attacking we laughed it off because mercs will be mercs. It isn't the first time mercs have tried something like this. Sometimes it is Marik mercs. Sometimes it is Liao mercs. In the end green and purple don't fight.

What changed this time was That it was TCAF taking worlds. At first it was ignored. I believe it was the planet Phact which was actually in a cluster of worlds you took from Davion so we shrugged. Then it kept happening. Next thing we know we are seeing loyalist voices joining the Liao mercs. We started defending worlds but only half heartedly since we weren't sure what was going on. We saw loyalist units as well as the mercs.

So from our perspective what was at first just mercs being stupid turned I to a full on invasion. So we were forced to act. The war council reached a decision and Alex Reed layer out the operations goals and purpose in his operation flaming sword post. So with the goal of taking 8 planets back we started fighting. When we were +6 in the first 3 days we figured it would be over before the next weekend.

Then a curious thing happened. Despite loyalists saying they were going to let us take back 8 worlds wenfoubd loyalists fighting tooth and nail to keep them. In fact they were dedication themselves to ghost dropping the planets back. We were also seeing a complete abandonment of the Davion front to come fight Marik.

This is all fine but it doesn't look like a faction that is willing to give the planets back and be buddy buddy. This has gone on long enough that actual cooperation and integration is happening with Davion and we are also grabbing merc units to fight Liao. This might not stop at 8 planets simply due to inertia. Even if we did stop at 8 I don't know how easy it would be to shift the attack to Davion. We would probably have to look north. Steiner and Kurita already have their hand full. Should we remain friends with Davion it would seem Kurita is the most logical choice which pulls pressure of of them to reinforce their Liao border.

It's all speculation on my part where this goes. All I know for sure is Liao has damaged their relationship with Marik and it wasn't mercs that caused it.

Edited by ThomasMarik, 18 January 2016 - 10:03 PM.

[MischiefSC]

wanderer, on 18 January 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

I've gotten three random requests from merc units that weren't aligned with Capellan Confederation a month ago to join up with their units (I stay tagless to avoid being biased towards one or another, as the Confederation is what matters)

In one case, literally saying "So you can whack some (sic) purple pidgeons.". The other two, as far as I can tell haven't touched a single Davion world and have exclusively been attacking Marik planets. None of them were names or players I was familiar with.

Thanks to not having any ability to leash units, as far as I can tell the Confederation is being used as a proxy to attack Marik and these new units are actively attempting to recruit Liao PUGs, either as new unit members or simply to assault FWL worlds, and the resulting chaos is enough to stir up regular units who have no idea what's going on at the PUG level of things.

This is a fundamental flaw in CW. It's hosed a relationship Liao and Marik have maintained for months if not years at this point. Given the only faction that benefits, as far as I can tell we are literally being used by Davion to attack Marik by proxy, to lure Liao PUGs into thinking this is the status quo, and there is very little we can do about it as it's gotten to the point of flinging poop each other's ways and the actual Liao players not wanting to fight/just getting pissy about the whole idiotic situation while the PUGs and proxy mercs go at it full bore with Marik- and naturally now that the FWL is hitting back, losing.

One good thing coming with CW3 will be loyalists voting on fronts.

The big concern is people smurfing loyalist accounts to sway votes on fronts. I'm not entirely sure how to address it.

Perhaps require a unit population and regular play above X amount to be able to vote? Based off average activity in the faction? So only the loyalist units who play regularly in Liao get to vote?

I dunno. Seems problematic in its own right. Same with the tag/tagless queue split; I get the concept but the execution seems like it'll just make more issues.

[Kjudoon]

I shall put out this suggestion. Maybe it's time to start posting screenshots of players that are trying to escalate this border skirmish into full-fledged war between our two houses. Something to let loyalist captains and the commanding officers if they have any people in their units going against the wishes of their unit. Since we cannot control the mercenaries from acting in this manner we can at least control our own people. Maybe it's time to consider expelling players that are deliberately trying to cause this problem and going against what would be faction wishes, it is time to enforce some sort of penalty. Secondly, I think it is time that at the next town hall meeting or anybody who is engaged in Twitter to start asking Russ for faction membership controls to be implemented in community warfare. if we do have people that are out there deliberately trying to ruin the game for other people for their own selfish pleasure, there needs to be some form of repercussion. Not something come by on a whim. But with some some sort of force that can come after sober unit or faction deliberation.

Regardless if peace and a return to the non aggression pact is what is truly desired by Loyalists wishing to stay true to their faction and their previous words, it may be time to put our money where our mouth is.

[Heart of Storm]

@ThomasMarik - Considering the vitriol directed at Liao is it suprising things have changed? *some* of you wanted to draw the line at 8 planets. Much in the same way *some* Liao loyalists were aghast at the actions of TCAF and desperately wanted to rebuild bridges.

However those Marik pilots advocating an 8 planet push were near drowned out by those baying 'Death to Liao' and falling over themselves to jump into bed with the Davions.

Just as a reminder, since your memory seems selective, you are a prime offender in both instances.

Wanting your planets back and taking steps to ensure that is one thing. Most Liao loyalists wouldnt have objected (TCAF excepted because who knows what they're thinking these days).

Allying with our number one most hated enemy however and coordinating with them to do so? Nuh uh, thats not 'taking your planets back', you're fooling nobody here matey.

What was the glorious Marik high command going to do if a week later we'd handed back the planets they wanted without contest?

Do you really expect us to believe that after the diplomatic overtures you made to the FedRats that you'd have gone back to attacking them straight away? Or would you have kept your NAP with them, resumed your NAP with us and left yourself with no fronts?

I call foul, there was no plan to stop at eight planets. The Capellan Confederation is not fooled by you or your fellow Davions-in-Mariks-clothing.

[Kjudoon]

Not helpful heart... Unless your help intent is to further enflame hot tempers.

Posts last me this from both sides is why I put out that proposal to hopefully cool off hot heads and hotter tongues.

Some people need a consequence and or a time out till they get it back together.

[Heart of Storm]

It probably doesn't help I agree, however ThomasDavion has openly agitated for all out war with Liao since this whole thing started, seeing him try play the victim when the rest of Liao sees the voices like his, clamouring for our destruction outweigh the reasonable voices like yours.

We can all agree that Marik was the wounded party, that TCAFs aggression, not Mercs, caused this situation, and that Marik had a right to reclaim her planets back.

Allying with Davion, offering to open a lane for Steiner, promoting open warfare on our front? Thats more then taking your due and until Marik high command can succesfully leash and muzzle those elements seeking to push us further into warfare we will remain cynical.

(As an aside, no need for real life head cooling, everybody is role-playing as far as I can tell, planets and CW mean nothing so this is just for funsies until PGI gives us something real to work towards)

[Kjudoon]

I understand. I on the other hand have seen a sudden great need for a new level of player tools for units and factions.

[Sandpit]

Heart of Storm, on 19 January 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

@ThomasMarik - Considering the vitriol directed at Liao is it suprising things have changed? *some* of you wanted to draw the line at 8 planets. Much in the same way *some* Liao loyalists were aghast at the actions of TCAF and desperately wanted to rebuild bridges. However those Marik pilots advocating an 8 planet push were near drowned out by those baying 'Death to Liao' and falling over themselves to jump into bed with the Davions. Just as a reminder, since your memory seems selective, you are a prime offender in both instances. Wanting your planets back and taking steps to ensure that is one thing. Most Liao loyalists wouldnt have objected (TCAF excepted because who knows what they're thinking these days). Allying with our number one most hated enemy however and coordinating with them to do so? Nuh uh, thats not 'taking your planets back', you're fooling nobody here matey. What was the glorious Marik high command going to do if a week later we'd handed back the planets they wanted without contest? Do you really expect us to believe that after the diplomatic overtures you made to the FedRats that you'd have gone back to attacking them straight away? Or would you have kept your NAP with them, resumed your NAP with us and left yourself with no fronts? I call foul, there was no plan to stop at eight planets. The Capellan Confederation is not fooled by you or your fellow Davions-in-Mariks-clothing.

Sandpit, on 19 January 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

Let's be very clear about something Ramses and I both personally jumped on to the Liao TS server a few times at different times trying to get anyone over there to talk to us about what was going on. We were completely totally and utterly ignored So let's not go painting some picture of Marik getting into a tizzy over a few forum posts. We just decided to liven up the forums a bit and have some fun with that. This is VERY clearly and concisely Liao trying to dictate to Marik "we're going to take these planets because we said so". Nowhere was there ANY offer of exchange in planets, just "We're going take the planets" 8 Planets were taken EIGHT planets During the period of 8 planets being taken (rolling up out PUGs, solos, new players and ghost dropping I might add), we attempted SEVERAL times to talk to Liao leadership outside of the forums. It was ignored. NOW you guys want to act like Marik just started pouncing on you because some forumite decided to have some fun and post some fluff. I can assure you that the Marik war Council did not take into consideration the forums when making our decision to take OUR planets back. You know, those 8 planets Liao just decided were theirs? The ones INSIDE our border? Yea those planets

[Joe Decker]

I am pretty sure if Liao Command (if there is such Thing) offers us a Peace Treaty, the Marik Command will seriously consider it and when they respond with Agreement to a Peace Treaty Marik Loyalists will stick with that. Different than all the Merc Units hopping around we do what we say.

But I am not sure if the Goal of the Operation is already met (or close to that). If it is met I see no Reason for future Hostilities.

Edited by Joe Decker, 19 January 2016 - 10:21 PM.

[Mogney]

if there is peace then we can no longer loot space bacon!

this thread is awesome!

[Alex Reed]

Joe Decker, on 19 January 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

I am pretty sure if Liao Command (if there is such Thing) offers us a Peace Treaty, the Marik Command will seriously consider it and when they respond with Agreement to a Peace Treaty Marik Loyalists will stick with that. Different than all the Merc Units hopping around we do what we say.

But I am not sure if the Goal of the Operation is already met (or close to that). If it is met I see no Reason for future Hostilities.

The goal of the original Op was eight planets. Marik had taken only four as of yesterday. As TCAF continues to counterattack our gains, who knows how long the War Council will hold to their original 8. If the situation keeps getting inflamed, it could turn into a race for Sian very quickly. After all, using TCAF logic, we are not in Phase Three yet...

[MischiefSC]

It's important to understand that just because TCAF doesn't care about NAP stuff right now doesn't mean nobody else does.

The mentality of "Hey, we decided treaties don't matter now so we're attacking. Nothing personal while we ghost drop the **** out of your worlds when most of you are not on. Totally expect you to go back to honoring the treaty later! Gawl, why are you like that? We only broke the treaty without discussing it this time because we wanted to! Why can't you just pretend we didn't later?"

Doesn't work that way. Never did. Frustrating situation to be in, but at least Liao has plenty of options to drop, right?

[Danjo San]

Alex Reed, on 20 January 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

The goal of the original Op was eight planets. Marik had taken only four as of yesterday. As TCAF continues to counterattack our gains, who knows how long the War Council will hold to their original 8. If the situation keeps getting inflamed, it could turn into a race for Sian very quickly. After all, using TCAF logic, we are not in Phase Three yet...

you know the same rouge mercs that lured tcaf into this position is trying to do the same with marik now. your planetary gain will come when those warmongers fly under your badge.

[Goolduck]

well it is very hard to resist a merc wearing rouge.

[El Bandito]

Danjo San, on 22 January 2016 - 02:45 AM, said:

you know the same rouge mercs that lured tcaf into this position is trying to do the same with marik now. your planetary gain will come when those warmongers fly under your badge.

Nah, eight planets, and we are good. Us Marik are far more in control of our loyalists.