296 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

As much as I was against it at the start and even well into Phase 2, with steam and a small influx of new players (or at least vets that are newly returned) that want to participate in CW that are slowly learning to adapt to group play - I think it is probably in the best interest of player retention to implement a split queue system.

Units and teams don't need to be rolling pugs, there actually seems to be enough interest in coordinated play (and could continue to/be more if rewarded better than pug play) that we really don't need the single queue.

If the majority is still adamant against split queues then the only other viable option to get the population up/keep new pug players is to eliminate the planet map and stick everyone into the 3 bucket system - IS v IS, Clan v Clan, Clan v IS to load up the drop counts and minimize how often pugs will land against larger groups.

Groups often claim to want CW to be a harder/end game mode, but constantly fight against the things that would make it so - so at some point something needs to be done to either force that to happen or to make the inclusion of solos a more welcoming environment.

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A solo only training planet queue would also be a welcome addition. Limited amount of drops, lower rewards and some audio/visual instruction. I'm sure there's also drop commanders that would willingly sign up to do a training/recruiting session a couple days a week.

[5LeafClover]

CW rewards are rather good actually, if you discount wait times that is. But 10-25min wait times are always going to dilute your cBills per hour.

[Cion]

well, I've seen CW much more populated of recently.

With quickplay and Faction play in....well...play, I'm against in splitting the queues. Not enough players for that.

Right now the best solution is to improve the tools players have to form teams with other PUGs for CW. If a 12 man PUG has comms (they do now) and had the time to coordinate mech loadouts and they still loose to a 12 man group/unit, then it probably because of higher skilled players in the unit rather than just because they are a team.

Let's face it, the majority of expert players belong to units.

[NextGame]

1. Don't queue to defend against a suddenly 12 man attack queue
2. Queue to attack more than you queue to defend

You will run into fewer units as a solo player, problem solved.

Maybe its time for solo players to read the warning popup when they go into CW and accept that groups and playing with others is an acceptable and effective part of the game.

[Skoll]

Splitting ques is a bad idea. Especially with CW, you're going to make an already intolerable wait more crappy. I personally don't think there should even be a separate solo / group que but that's just me.

Regardless though, CW is a team oriented mode. If you're going to pug it, don't complain if you get rolled by a team because you knew exactly what you were heading into.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

And what would this serve? To help the idiots that didn't read the prompt?

No. No need to split the queue, bar brand new players from playing endgame content.

[sycocys]

I really don't disagree with it being team-oriented, end game, or that pugs generally lack the skill/willingness to operate as a team - not at all. And honestly I don't really want to see split queues, but when you look at how noncompetitive it is, how the setup is currently geared towards putting groups vs pugs with the call to arms system something really needs to be done.

Either that's going to be split queues, which will make the pugs/solos happier - or it will have to be drastically reduced bucket space and the "planet" system put into the background and taken out of the players hands.

For CW to survive it needs population, groups rolling pugs is continuing to not be a working strategy - its not encouraging players to join units or groups because their first experiences make them hate the mode. Then they come to express their displeasure with the setup and get railed on because they didn't enjoy the way the mode is set up.

And I completely understand the wait times issue, and that is exactly why the 3 bucket system is probably the more effective route, end of the day the current system just won't work to make CW a viable mode if all it's doing is running the players new to the game/mode off and out of the mode (if its only the mode and not flat out uninstalling).

[sycocys]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 13 January 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

And what would this serve? To help the idiots that didn't read the prompt?

No. No need to split the queue, bar brand new players from playing endgame content.

Well if they are -idiots- you certainly don't need them in your queue to farm them.

This "end game" argument is just a fail. There is 2, 3 if you want to stretch the group queue into its own, actual modes of play in the game. Quick play and CW.
CW is barely improved from quick play.
There is no End Game/Purpose/Meaning to CW even if you wanted to try to consider it "end game content".
The 1 major difference is that CW unlocks mechbays for pilots - which actually makes it "beginning game content" for this f2p model.

I am truly sorry you don't think you could live another day without farming new/solo players and actually having your precious "end game" be put into a place where you actually faced a challenge with groups on the other side of your drops - you know creating that "end game" scenario people like you desperately cling to.

At the end of the day if you actually want the mode to survive and draw new population and people that might actually want to join units to create higher challenge matches something is going to have to happen or the solos are either going to go back to abandoning the mode or quitting the game.

[Jon Gotham]

I'd prefer your 3 bucket system over a queue split...I'd even stomach limiting premades to max 6 strong if it would just stop the godawful whining up for just one day.
The solution for the game though is to push and encourage social play. We desperately need a much better in game UI centered around this. currently having a special queue for solo players (in a multiplayer game no less) isn't helping faction communities grow.
The bigger and better an online game's community is, longer it lasts.


Rather than endlessly banging on about the poor solos being farmed (which currently as game is designed as of right now-100% on them) why not make a thread on what you think would get all these solos to:

A: Talk to other players
B:Think about grouping up
C:Join units
D: Actually interact with their specific faction's community


Sorry to break it to you, but you HAVE to have at least some of the above for a game to last. Team solomatch doesn't have a high retention traditionally for this type of game. Crack the problem of the solo mentality and you will eventually have a thriving, vibrant community that new players can be delighted in.
Make friends on a game-you tend to STAY in that game.

Edited by kamiko kross, 13 January 2016 - 08:39 AM.

[sycocys]

I totally agree, I'd prefer not having split queues either - but at the end of the day unless we want to see the population wiped out again something is going to have to happen.

One of these two are the most likely scenarios, I prefer the bucket system as well - it actually works very well in Tuk to reduce the amount of 12 v pug play to a fairly tolerable level for everyone.

[Skoll]

Look at the Battlefield games. Splitting the ques will kill the game further. I don't get why people keep advocating for this. It's counter productive to literally everything.

[JaxRiot]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

As much as I was against it at the start and even well into Phase 2, with steam and a small influx of new players (or at least vets that are newly returned) that want to participate in CW that are slowly learning to adapt to group play - I think it is probably in the best interest of player retention to implement a split queue system.

Units and teams don't need to be rolling pugs, there actually seems to be enough interest in coordinated play (and could continue to/be more if rewarded better than pug play) that we really don't need the single queue.

If the majority is still adamant against split queues then the only other viable option to get the population up/keep new pug players is to eliminate the planet map and stick everyone into the 3 bucket system - IS v IS, Clan v Clan, Clan v IS to load up the drop counts and minimize how often pugs will land against larger groups.

Groups often claim to want CW to be a harder/end game mode, but constantly fight against the things that would make it so - so at some point something needs to be done to either force that to happen or to make the inclusion of solos a more welcoming environment.

-----
A solo only training planet queue would also be a welcome addition. Limited amount of drops, lower rewards and some audio/visual instruction. I'm sure there's also drop commanders that would willingly sign up to do a training/recruiting session a couple days a week.

Adding a Pug que would definitely make CW more casual friendly, which is always good in my opinion.

Having an entire game mode the size of CW that only caters to Hard Mode players seems counter productive to me. Especially since the majority of players are more casual.

But I dont know if a separate que is needed right now since Phase 3 is going to be greatly narrowing attack lanes, and plus with the rumored Unit member caps that might happen, the Units will have a harder time avoiding each other and might lead to more varied match ups.

Edit-

I do agree with the Groups opposing separate ques thing though. They claim that CW is supposed to be for Hard Mode game play, but greatly oppose anything that takes away their easy mode pug rolling.

There was a Thread here yesterday that about a rumored Unit Que that might come with Phase 3. I dont know what happened to it (probably deleted), but you should check it out if its still around

Edited by JaxRiot, 13 January 2016 - 09:00 AM.

[Mystere]

CW is supposed to be a quasi simulation of war. As such, this example is why I think creating separate queues is ridiculous:

Mystere, on 07 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Local resident on radio:

"Help! Help! We're under attack! Send the army now! These foreign barbarians are massacring the population! Help us please!"

Military Command:

"Mam, I'm afraid we cannot help you at this time. You're facing a ragtag band of enemies. But, the current rules of war dictate that we can only send an equally ragtag band. Unfortunately, our military has none, and so I guess you all just have to submit to your new masters while we try to scrounge up and arm some local peasants from a nearby planet ... Yikes! We do not have any peasants!"

I can given another one if people insist.

So don't even go there. And that is coming from someone who has played only solo since the very beginning.

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

I totally agree, I'd prefer not having split queues either ...

Then don't even ask for it. <smh>

[Khobai]

They definitely need to split the CW queue. Pugs should never have to fight premades.

Quote

Look at the Battlefield games. Splitting the ques will kill the game further. I don't get why people keep advocating for this. It's counter productive to literally everything.

Theres really no evidence to support what youre saying. Split queues work fine for quickplay. Theres no reason to believe they wouldnt work fine for CW as well.

Quote

But I dont know if a separate que is needed right now since Phase 3 is going to be greatly narrowing attack lanes

Narrowing attack lanes is just going to make the problem worse because units will be more concentrated.

Thats all the more reason why pugs and premades need to be in seperate queues.

Quote

CW is supposed to be a quasi simulation of war.

Its a game dude. People play games because theyre not unfair like real life. They play games because they have rules and structure that give neither side a significant advantage.

Pug vs Premade should not be allowed because it gives one side an inherently large and undeniable advantage over the other side. Allowing pug vs premade goes against everything thats taught in game design 101.

Edited by Khobai, 13 January 2016 - 09:11 AM.

[Mystere]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

This "end game" argument is just a fail. There is 2, 3 if you want to stretch the group queue into its own, actual modes of play in the game. Quick play and CW.
CW is barely improved from quick play.
There is no End Game/Purpose/Meaning to CW even if you wanted to try to consider it "end game content".

Which part of "Community Warfare is not even close to being feature complete!" do people not understand? It totally lacks depth and immersion. The solution to that is to not dumb it down further. The solution is to create more imaginative game modes, some of which are designed to soften the blow for new players.

Dumbing CW down by making it function just like the solo queue is not the solution.

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The solution is to create more imaginative game modes, some of which are designed to soften the blow for new players.

uh this is PGI were talking about. that is not gonna happen. ever. you are living in a jaded candyland fantasy world if you think that will ever come to fruition.

the best solution and most immediate solution is split queues.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

uh this is PGI were talking about. that is not gonna happen. ever. you are living in a jaded candyland fantasy world if you think that will ever come to fruition.

the best solution and most immediate solution is split queues.

Well, I'd rather MWO die than CW end up being just like the public solo queue.

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2016 - 09:17 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Well, I'd rather MWO die than CW end up being just like the public solo queue.

yeah except improving the game experience for PUGs by splitting the queues will only help MWO succeed.

[Novakaine]

I'd rather not have new players in CW if they can't or don't bother to read or at worst just plain stupid.
I get enough of that in Puglandia.

[JaxRiot]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

They definitely need to split the CW queue. Pugs should never have to fight premades.


Pug vs Premade should not be allowed because it gives one side an inherently large and undeniable advantage over the other side. Allowing pug vs premade goes against everything thats taught in game design 101.

I agree that the system is pretty buggered right now.

Units know that they have a built in advantage over PuGs nice out of ten times, so they will oppose anything that takes away that advantage.

They will claim that CW is for Group/Unit play and if the PuGs step on their turf then they get what they deserve.

I say, if thats the case.. then Lock CW.

Take away that warning and put a hard counter in there.

Make it so that people Have to be in a Unit to que for CW, or at the very least be in a Pre-Made group just to even que.

And NO trial mechs allowed.