182 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightshade24, on 12 January 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Yes... has nothing to do with the fact that 75% [excluding battlemechs, only omnimechs in this list] of the clan mechs can not use Endo steel or Ferro fibrous (where 25% have neither) and majority have poor engine selections, such as having the worse engine of the same mass or one several tons heavier for a bare few KPH faster.
or the battlemechs for clans are larger than IS counterparts and maximise their weaknesses...
Or the fact that hardwired jumpjets force mechs to have worse tonnage to work with or hardwired heatsinks make certain builds obsolete (ie duel gauss on mad dog, or duel ballistics large on the warhawk due to redundancy...
Or the fact the majoritry of these obsolete/ bad mechs (Mist lynx, Gargoyle, Mad Dog, Nova, Adder, Highlander IIC, Orion IIC, Summoner, etc) or mechs not using the meta omnipods or using missiles/ ballistics (Missile timberwolf, non ECM kitfox, hellbringer, JJ direwolf, Missile hellbringer, warhawk, etc) do not have any quirks to support these...
ER PPC on Warhawk? Er medium lasers on nova? ER PPC or LBX 10's for summoner? LBX 5 or ER large lasers on kitfox? LRM 20's or MG's for Timberwolf? SSRM 6 hellbringers etc?... nope... would be OP if they get a 10% quirk for anything on those lines...
or the clan DHS have the same heat capacity as Single heatsinks... what's that? Clan Double heatsinks are now competing with the IS Single heatsink and not the double heatsink?... for the low low cost of having 0.1 more heat dissipation... many clan mechs can't have their DHS in legs due to hardwired structure, armour, or jumpjets... so a IS mech in Water with 4 SHS in the legs would be cooler than the comparable clan mech...

Well first I will say that the Warhawk DOES have ER PPC quirks. I love that thing on Boreal Vault, its very fun and effective.

Second, you are misinformed about how the DHS work. You still get the 10 true doubles in the engine (2.0 cap, .2 dissipation), so you are still better off with DHS than a mech with SHS. They need 20 SHS just to compete with the 10 DHS in your engine.
The heat cap difference is a total of about 4 heat on an example mech with 20 DHS. Not exactly a game changer. I don't really notice it that much.

[Gas Guzzler]

nehebkau, on 12 January 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

@ OP,

You are really overstating the problem because you are too emotional. The issue is only with a few mechs whose quirks make them the go-to mech for CW. The range, heat and structure quirks on the BJ, TDR, BLR and a few other mechs mean that they are the only ones you see in organized groups and they are tough to defeat specially with clanners who are unable to change how they do things.

Clanners are still trying to play a sniping game against IS mechs that have 1K ERLL range. They are still trying to out laservomit brawl 8 or 9 MPL mechs. I have consistently seen horrible play from clanners recently -- unable or unwilling to utilize their true advantage of being able to maintain a fairly quick and compact deathball.

In truth, however, PGI needs to revisit some range and structure quirks on some mechs -- its the whole 9s ERPPC issue resurfacing on different mechs but overall balance with non-meta mechs is pretty good.

The issue of people playing to their opponents advantage is rampant among the Clan ranks. People need to understand what their loadout is good at and what their opponents loadout is.

You don't trade a quad ER LL Battlemaster with 2 cLPL. You can hit him, but he is doing more damage to you than you are to him. Use cover.

Same goes with brawling, your mechs are typically highly mobile, put off the brawl as long as you can so you can soften your targets at range. Most players here need a playstyle adjustment.

[Vagosei]

Nothing wrong with balance of mechs. Player or teams skill level determines who wins or loses in CW now. And I think that is just fine. Win or lose. Clanners that are used to face rolling. Just need to work together. Just like any other team to get the job done. And best of all have fun.

[Volts]

Good Troll thread

Five stars.

Would read again.

[FlipOver]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 07:25 AM, said:

The issue of people playing to their opponents advantage is rampant among the Clan ranks. People need to understand what their loadout is good at and what their opponents loadout is.

You don't trade a quad ER LL Battlemaster with 2 cLPL. You can hit him, but he is doing more damage to you than you are to him. Use cover.

Same goes with brawling, your mechs are typically highly mobile, put off the brawl as long as you can so you can soften your targets at range. Most players here need a playstyle adjustment.

You know... I just quoted your post for it being so true!

People don't want to adapt or adjust. That's the issue with Clans and they will be destroyed because people just rather whine than just adapt.

Shame, really.

To all Clanners: Don't adapt, please! The IS thanks you!

[Darwins Dog]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 07:25 AM, said:

The issue of people playing to their opponents advantage is rampant among the Clan ranks. People need to understand what their loadout is good at and what their opponents loadout is.

You don't trade a quad ER LL Battlemaster with 2 cLPL. You can hit him, but he is doing more damage to you than you are to him. Use cover.

Same goes with brawling, your mechs are typically highly mobile, put off the brawl as long as you can so you can soften your targets at range. Most players here need a playstyle adjustment.

Got it. Don't try to trade at range: IS has the advantage. Don't brawl: IS has the advantage. Just move around a lot.

EDIT: The problem is that you can't tell if you are going to fight brawlers, ranged, or both so you can't really adapt what mech you bring.

I've played a fair amount on both sides, and right now IS has the advantage. Mechs are tougher, have better range, cooler weapons, and higher DPS. Not to mention that every two months they get a God Quirked mech. BJ-1X is stupid right now (double the structure values and can fire 6xML, and 2xMPL with no ghost heat).

What PGI needs to do is make small changes to quirks, etc. Start with 10% buffs rather than 50%, and see how that goes.

Edited by Darwins Dog, 12 January 2016 - 07:44 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Darwins Dog, on 12 January 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

Got it. Don't try to trade at range: IS has the advantage. Don't brawl: IS has the advantage. Just move around a lot.

I've played a fair amount on both sides, and right now IS has the advantage. Mechs are tougher, have better range, cooler weapons, and higher DPS. Not to mention that every two months they get a God Quirked mech. BJ-1X is stupid right now (double the structure values and can fire 6xML, and 2xMPL with no ghost heat).

What PGI needs to do is make small changes to quirks, etc. Start with 10% buffs rather than 50%, and see how that goes.

Wait what? You mean at the same time they are going to have both ER LL BLRs AND ThunderWubs? Impossibruh!

It's more like determine what they have and put yourself in the situation that takes their advantage away. It's not conplicated.

And yes BJ-1X needs it's structure toned down a bit. I don't care about the MPLs though their range is pretty limited.

Edit: You don't need to know what mech to bring, all you have to do is NOT play to THEIR advantage. Clan mechs thrive where their ER MLS are effective. So at around 500 meters is where you want to be. Most people bring ER MLs and cLPLs, so you can even hit those brawlers from 700 meters.

Omfg autocorrect sucks for forums!

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 January 2016 - 07:52 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Well first I will say that the Warhawk DOES have ER PPC quirks. I love that thing on Boreal Vault, its very fun and effective.

Second, you are misinformed about how the DHS work. You still get the 10 true doubles in the engine (2.0 cap, .2 dissipation), so you are still better off with DHS than a mech with SHS. They need 20 SHS just to compete with the 10 DHS in your engine.
The heat cap difference is a total of about 4 heat on an example mech with 20 DHS. Not exactly a game changer. I don't really notice it that much.

I was told the engine true dubs were also changed- alas I have to be gullible because the game doesn't allow you to check for that data. So I do apologies for that.
4 heat does not create that much of an impact at first however it does mean that you got 1 less ER medium laser or shot of an UAC 2 less than before before hitting the cap.
The problem however quickly magnifies over time the more and more the battle drags out. Because that time waiting to cool down and that 4 heat will quickly stack to 8 heat of wasted opportunity... 12.... 26... 40... etc which keep pilling up more and more. to the comparable IS they do not really have that problem for any negative downside besides 1 slot bigger HS (which may or may not matter if they have the option to fit a bigger engine for that DHS and/or have other arragements and stuff)

[Dawnstealer]

Joseph Ward, on 12 January 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

Until IS mechs or drop tonnages or quirks etc get the culling/nerfing they deserve - I can't see the point in playing as Clan. This game just isn't canon now. Clan tech is supposed to be better - albeit coming at a much higher cost.

Maybe Clan mechs should be cheaper to buy now? no?

I really hope PGI sorts this out - before all trueborn and loyal clanners such as myself just give up on playing CW.

What's that? you're IS and you disagree? switch sides and let us know how you get on.

Hey, you told us IS-ers to learn to play. Well: we did. Thanks for the advice.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightshade24, on 12 January 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

I was told the engine true dubs were also changed- alas I have to be gullible because the game doesn't allow you to check for that data. So I do apologies for that.
4 heat does not create that much of an impact at first however it does mean that you got 1 less ER medium laser or shot of an UAC 2 less than before before hitting the cap.
The problem however quickly magnifies over time the more and more the battle drags out. Because that time waiting to cool down and that 4 heat will quickly stack to 8 heat of wasted opportunity... 12.... 26... 40... etc which keep pilling up more and more. to the comparable IS they do not really have that problem for any negative downside besides 1 slot bigger HS (which may or may not matter if they have the option to fit a bigger engine for that DHS and/or have other arragements and stuff)

I'm not sure it works that way, battles are rarely constant shooting like that. IS mechs start hitting the heat cap as well and have the same issue, but they typically have less DHS so less dissipation, so you still have to hold fire to cool off.

I don't know, I like to think I am pretty unbias, and I don't really consider the DHS change an issue, it just helped the IS a tiny bit because their 3-slot DHS are hard to cram in.

I will concede that some mechs, Blackjack mainly, have too much structure added to them, they were already good mechs. Take those structure quirks and put them on the Vindicator. And it will STILL suck!!*


*1AA PPC poptarting is fun though

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 January 2016 - 08:07 AM.

[Strykewolf]

Been gone awhile, came back over the holidays to mess around. I've played both sides, though primarily IS.

Went with clans as a 'freelancer', more or less. Didn't seem to have too many issues other than shifting my loadouts a bit. The few times I saw actual teamwork among the fellow pugs; we held our own for the most part.

I don't have anything elited on the clan side of things, mostly just basic'd. Switched things around to be mostly brawl/run-n-gun. Seemed to help.

[Vxheous]

OP, you disgrace the House of Ward with your whine /rp off.

In all seriousness, clans are hardly unplayable. I have lost maybe one game out of 20 since switching back to Clan. This is against many 10-12 man groups as well, not just pug stomps. I think teamwork is OP, and not a tech/tonnage balance issue.

[Adamski]

Yep, the BJ-1X is OP. I'm not sure about the other Blackjacks, but I know the BJ-A needed those structure buffs to get to a decent state. (Mostly because the BJ-A only has 3 energy hardpoints, none in its arms, so it needs the extra structure because it exposes more of itself)

Thunderbolts and Stalkers are not OP anymore, they have been constantly retuned every patch. They are now on par with EBJ and WHK.

Black Knight may be a bit on the strong side, as well as a couple of the Grasshoppers. But I would consider them on par with the TBR.

We are now at the point where IS dominates at the EXTREME long range, and at the SHORT-MID range. They have more structure to help them tank better. IS pilots absolutely must play to their chassis quirk specialization to be viable.

The Clans are best at the MID-LONG range, and again at the SHORT range. They have bigger engines to make them easier to reposition on the map and to stick together better, which will help with focus firing. Almost every Clan mech can be customized to the pilots preferred playstyle.

Overall the balance is fairly good, with outliers that still need attention (BJ-1X needs nerfs, Vindicator, Trebuchet, Kintaro, Orion, Victor need buffs). (Summoner still needs more buffs, I would add the NVA but will see what the rescale does to it)

[Murphy7]

Blackjacks are out of line with their structure quirks, I honestly thought they were typos. But neither am I going to ignore that for now.

I'd rather see some asymmetric adjustments rather than nerfs to what's popular or apparently abusive. One thing I think there is no need for in the current realm are the negative quirks on the Timberwolves and Stormcrows - they may have made sense before the handing out of structure quirks to the IS, but they make less sense now.

And maybe something silly - +100% ER PPC velocity on Adders, let the good times roll. Something as absurd as the Blackjack, but entirely different in flavor.

[KahnWongFuChung]

It don't matter CW is dead the game is dead and boring if the devs don't do a major expansion with new game modes and missions or something this game will become a graveyard.

[Dawnstealer]

Yeah, I don't drop BJs in CW for the same reason I didn't drop the 4N when it was over-powered. I want to win because I had the better team, not a broken mech. So the BJ-1X is the one single mech right now that's actually over-quirked. And what I mean by that is that it's quirks actually make it better than a Clan mech rather than the other "OP IS MECHS!" that were actually just on-par with a Clan mech that's 10-20 tons lighter.

[Khereg]

-MS- ponders its next move...

(scratches chin and stares thoughtfully into the distance)

Edited by Khereg, 12 January 2016 - 09:34 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khereg, on 12 January 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

-MS- ponders its next move...

(scratches chin and stares thoughtfully into the distance)

Go Clan so the map irrefutably proves that Clan mechs are OP again.

[Murphy7]

Quote

-MS- ponders its next move...

(scratches chin and stares thoughtfully into the distance)

Go Davion, and try to build a golden ring around the galaxy.

I think MS's next challenge should be galactic map art projects.

[L A V A]

Khereg, on 12 January 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

-MS- ponders its next move...

(scratches chin and stares thoughtfully into the distance)

The BWC is recruiting!

http://the-bwc.com/