778 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 January 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Its not group queue, its unit queue. If you have a unit tag and drop solo in CW, you get put in the unit queue. If you do not have a unit tag, you go into the solo queue. "Seal clubbers" like me, the rest of NS, MS, 228th, etc, will keep doing what we are doing... either dropping solo against other players in units, or dropping in a group, the only difference is, if you aren't in a unit, you won't go up against people in units. So.. we aren't going to be blasting new players UNLESS they make their own unit, which would be very foolish of them.

So, it effectively shelters new players or players who aren't interested in teamwork from being matched up against players in units. It won't be the deepend, it will be up against other players who are equally clueless, or the players who don't want to coordinate and play as a team. We see them all the time, players who know how to play but just do their own thing.

I don't even know what you are arguing.. who do you think wants this? How does this increase seal clubbing? You aren't making any sense?

No
it's a group queue per Russ.
It's solo and group queue split
Has NOTHING to do with being in a unit. I can drop solo any time I want regardless of what unit I belong to.

The only thing it "shelters" new players from is getting help from other faction members in units that tend to be more active, more coordinated, more willing to help them because guess where their new members come from?

[MischiefSC]

All teasing aside I think I've made my overall opinion on split queues pretty clear.

However -

I had a reasonable exchange with Russ on the topic and I think there is a lot more to this. I'm willing to give it a wait and see. I don't think this is just some split queue; it's more doubling down on CW being about units.

We'll see.

[Sandpit]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 January 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

You should be more informed dude.

I'm in a unit. After this change, I drop solo in CW, I will be put in the UNIT QUEUE, not the solo queue, so no seal clubbing.

YOU should be more informed
Solo and group queue split

Go read it on twitter for yourself, but don't accuse others of needing "more information" when they've just directly been in a conversation with the head of PGI about it

[Monkey Lover]

ThomasMarik, on 14 January 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

So what is stopping units from simply dropping their tags?

Im guessing the planet rewards but i could see 2nd account being made for trolling

[Flutterguy]

sycocys, on 14 January 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Oh the humanity!

Sorry guys, it's just logical that the game does things to help the population that PGI stands to garner the most income from. That's not vets that have already purchased most of their content or hit a point where purchasing is at a stopping point.

Which is exactly the problem. This will likely hurt new players more than it helps them. Waiting 10 minutes for a group then 10 minutes for a ghost drop is not an experience that is going to keep new players playing.

[Karl Marlow]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

All teasing aside I think I've made my overall opinion on split queues pretty clear.

However -

I had a reasonable exchange with Russ on the topic and I think there is a lot more to this. I'm willing to give it a wait and see. I don't think this is just some split queue; it's more doubling down on CW being about units.

We'll see.

I hope so. All he said is he is going to discuss the topic. Which means he is just as likely to discuss why it can't happen. More likely in fact since its pretty much unworkable and very easy to exploit.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

No
it's a group queue per Russ.
It's solo and group queue split
Has NOTHING to do with being in a unit. I can drop solo any time I want regardless of what unit I belong to.

The only thing it "shelters" new players from is getting help from other faction members in units that tend to be more active, more coordinated, more willing to help them because guess where their new members come from?

Oh yeah? You sure?

https://twitter.com/...737553189863425

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

All teasing aside I think I've made my overall opinion on split queues pretty clear.

However -

I had a reasonable exchange with Russ on the topic and I think there is a lot more to this. I'm willing to give it a wait and see. I don't think this is just some split queue; it's more doubling down on CW being about units.

We'll see.

If they segregate new players from groups it's going to be a disaster for that solo queue.

I'm usually a 'wait and see", but I've been through this exact same mess regarding the queues before. They didn't fix the PUB queues then and they won't fix the CW queues now.

It's time to stop with "band-aids" and start looking at the underlying reasons for the negative gaming experiences. It's got nothing to do with groups and solos

it's got more to do with dbags taking advantage of systems like PSR and solo queues to do nothing BUT farm new player and such. It doesn't take much to tank an PSR and get back down into Tiers 4 & 5 and there are some who openly admit to doing so here on these very forums.

There's your problem. Players like that and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with groups or solos or premades, etc.

[Barantor]

I'm of the mind that all play should be linked to planets and that there shouldn't be the existing 'quick play' at all, but I know I'm not the majority.

Something has to change, I'm eager to hear from Russ what the actual plan is when he gets in the town hall.

People should not have to join a unit to play all the parts of this game, especially if MWO has events that reward points and such in faction play.

I don't like the current CW at all, so it may be a bit moot on me unless this new version of CW drastically changes the way invaded planets are chosen.

[Deathlike]

Flutterguy, on 14 January 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Which is exactly the problem. This will likely hurt new players more than it helps them. Waiting 10 minutes for a group then 10 minutes for a ghost drop is not an experience that is going to keep new players playing.

Well... I think mostly everyone agrees that ghost drops suck.

[Sandpit]

Flutterguy, on 14 January 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Which is exactly the problem. This will likely hurt new players more than it helps them. Waiting 10 minutes for a group then 10 minutes for a ghost drop is not an experience that is going to keep new players playing.

of course it will!

I mean spending 20 minutes trying to find a planet queue and make heads or tails of it, then hoping and spending another 20 minutes for random solo players to jump in and STAY in your newly forming team, only to ghost drop 10 minutes after that because nobody is going to help direct traffic or help them with information on how it works and such, is going to vastly improve the solo queue doncha know?

[Haakon Magnusson]

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

No
it's a group queue per Russ.
It's solo and group queue split
Has NOTHING to do with being in a unit. I can drop solo any time I want regardless of what unit I belong to.

The only thing it "shelters" new players from is getting help from other faction members in units that tend to be more active, more coordinated, more willing to help them because guess where their new members come from?

I don't quite agree it's going to be the disaster you make it to be. Been in FRR front plently of times going full solo (Yeah, I know, you should never go full solo; hell, I always go full solo) and at least FRR pugs have been doing great, people know what to do, regardless not being grouped up.. pointers given to total nubs and people picking up voice comms. Frankly I think you should give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Deathlike]

The "unit queue" is probably very simplistic.

If the player is dropping solo AND unitless. they go elsewhere.. otherwise they are in the primary queue.

Basically, faction groups (units and non-units) are considered a valid unit option (assuming that there isn't a restriction in grouping with other players not in a unit), and aren't in consideration... although I don't know what a unitless group would go (I mean, this is where alt accounts would be abusing).

Edited by Deathlike, 14 January 2016 - 12:59 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Not sure why this is a hot button issue when CW is pointless to begin with. Assuming phase 3 probably won't and hopefully phase 4 might give some long term sustainable reason to play CW this is a non factor.

[Gas Guzzler]

Flutterguy, on 14 January 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Which is exactly the problem. This will likely hurt new players more than it helps them. Waiting 10 minutes for a group then 10 minutes for a ghost drop is not an experience that is going to keep new players playing.

Maybe they will be encouraged to leave the kiddie pool then?

[MischiefSC]

So long as the solo queue can't really flip a world. If I can take worlds in solo queue then it behooves me to drop in solo queue and demolish helpless scrubs.

If however solo queue just provides perks to the real battles in the unit queue and don't flip worlds, that's alright.

In our chat he also implied unit queue would have MC rewards and such. It sounded a lot like unit queue would get a double-down and solo players get removed from directly competing for worlds.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

If they segregate new players from groups it's going to be a disaster for that solo queue.

I'm usually a 'wait and see", but I've been through this exact same mess regarding the queues before. They didn't fix the PUB queues then and they won't fix the CW queues now.

It's time to stop with "band-aids" and start looking at the underlying reasons for the negative gaming experiences. It's got nothing to do with groups and solos

it's got more to do with dbags taking advantage of systems like PSR and solo queues to do nothing BUT farm new player and such. It doesn't take much to tank an PSR and get back down into Tiers 4 & 5 and there are some who openly admit to doing so here on these very forums.

There's your problem. Players like that and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with groups or solos or premades, etc.

Just because a couple people say they do that on the forums doesn't mean that its a widespread issue. Those players probably aren't very good anyway. They get to Tier 3, start playing some good players and get wrecked and think "Gee I better get myself out of this".

Frankly, I doubt very many people are going to drop their unit tags so they can join the non-unit queue. Most of the big teams actually do care about tags on planets, MS is trying to take over the whole Inner Sphere for instance.

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

In our chat he also implied unit queue would have MC rewards and such. It sounded a lot like unit queue would get a double-down and solo players get removed from directly competing for worlds.

Well remember, CW is supposed to be about organized team play.

[Sandpit]

Haakon Magnusson, on 14 January 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

I don't quite agree it's going to be the disaster you make it to be. Been in FRR front plently of times going full solo (Yeah, I know, you should never go full solo; hell, I always go full solo) and at least FRR pugs have been doing great, people know what to do, regardless not being grouped up.. pointers given to total nubs and people picking up voice comms. Frankly I think you should give them the benefit of the doubt.

going full solo isn't possible right now. Even if you drop solo

Units and groups are still in there helping direct traffic and such. There's no such thing as "full solo" in CW queue right now

That's what made it actually a nice place to be able to finally congregate with other players and actually FIND other players.

Gas Guzzler, on 14 January 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

Maybe they will be encouraged to leave the kiddie pool then?

you mean more likely to get frustrated and say "Screw this" and move on to the next game that doesn't put those hurdles in front of them to participate in a campaign?

Gas Guzzler, on 14 January 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

Just because a couple people say they do that on the forums doesn't mean that its a widespread issue.

???
Russ himself is saying this is why we have split queues. It, according to PGI, IS a widespread issue. I'm not pulling statements out of my arse here. I'm going on what PGI relays to us. These are THEIR reasons for splitting the queue. If you want to dispute the factual nature of them you'll have to take that up with the company saying it

[DAYLEET]

I think splitting queues for CW can only be good for the players and CW but i dont like CW and would rather have those people play solo or group queue. Im also fine with CW being the hardcore, serious, must be good and have meta, no rules here and you will face 12man and you will die or join them. CW isnt group or solo, people wont quit group to go play solo because theres more players in solo. Or im wrong in thinking those unit are serious, single minded people who want more than the TDM we have in Solo/Group?


Will it work like LFG? Will solo be able to complement group if they so chose?


Gee i wonder who that REV dude was lol.

Edited by DAYLEET, 14 January 2016 - 01:22 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

going full solo isn't possible right now. Even if you drop solo

Units and groups are still in there helping direct traffic and such. There's no such thing as "full solo" in CW queue right now

That's what made it actually a nice place to be able to finally congregate with other players and actually FIND other players.
you mean more likely to get frustrated and say "Screw this" and move on to the next game that doesn't put those hurdles in front of them to participate in a campaign?


???
Russ himself is saying this is why we have split queues. It, according to PGI, IS a widespread issue. I'm not pulling statements out of my arse here. I'm going on what PGI relays to us. These are THEIR reasons for splitting the queue. If you want to dispute the factual nature of them you'll have to take that up with the company saying it

How does split CW queues have ANYTHING to do with artificially lowering one's PSR? How could people dropping their unit tags to club seals be an issue when the split queues isn't even in game yet?

Yeah unit members and groups direct traffic, but people ignore them too which isn't fun for anyone.

But seriously:

Units have been saying from the beginning that split queues would increase wait times. The seals all said they would rather wait than get seal clubbed.

Get over it.