606 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

Jack Gammel, on 05 January 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Also, playing FedSuns lets you beat up on Capellans, and who doesn't love that?

*Dola strikes in and tears his mech to pieces*

Any other rat to take care of?

[Vassago]

I fought for house davion along time ago. and to put it simply.... because i can....

[Ariston]

I've been loyal House Davion for over fifteen years, since I first started playing games in the BattleTech universe. I think it was the way Prince Hanse Davion combined nobility with utter ruthlessness and cunning—were I living in a world like the Inner Sphere, that would be a man I could follow into Hell.

[MonkeyDCecil]

Hanse Davion and Victor Steiner-Davion. Need I say More.

Edited by MonkeyDCecil, 09 January 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Joe Davion 86]

After reading some of the books it just seems that FedSuns by far espouse my own personal beliefs, or maybe its just the other way around since i was just learning to tie my own shoes when BT came out either way I'm for them plus who doesnt like to hear an AC belt through a half ton of ammo

[William Knight]

SexualBubblegumX, on 07 December 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

Because.... It's AMERICA IN SPACE! AMERICA F*CK YEAH! Lulz, naw just joking about the stereotype. I just feel The Federated Suns are total bad *****. I love the 1st Armored Cavalry paint scheme too, it's classy.

it has a royal family, but embraces basic freedom and rights for the people.

I would say its more like Britain cough*Albion*cough in space if we had to draw any comparison with today’s nations.

[William Knight]

Adridos, on 06 January 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

*Dola strikes in and tears his mech to pieces*

Any other rat to take care of?

why would you tear your own mech to pieces? silliy Capellan

[Jace Walker]

I Respect Hans Davion and beleve his son Victor will follow in his tradition and will rise to become a great Leader.

[THE 4thbreed]

I joined because of victor and the fact that Davion rocks. victor is the perfect leader and a great mech pilot what is not to like.

[Dihm]

THE 4thbreed, on 10 January 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

I joined because of victor and the fact that Davion rocks. victor is the perfect leader and a great mech pilot what is not to like.

Sure he did okay militarily, but politically? Perfect?

[Astarties]

Because House Davion is essentially America.

[THE 3rdbreed]

House Davion is NOT the USA-in-space! There is a one word moniker we have for what House Davion.......AN ABSOLUTE MONARCHY! They have a blasted Prince! In page 101 of the sourcebook it outlines the powers of the "Principality", the powers granted to the prince are(I paraphrase) the control of all flow of money(and the power to tax is the power to destroy), the supreme control of the military, and the control of the ministry of administrative services (which also includes the judiciary). The page also says that in return for these powers the Prince signs a petition to help citziens abused by overpowerful government. Does this not make anyone else laugh?! That the one in control of the government is supposed to help those whom are being oppressed by a overpowerful government. The Fedrats' High council is stated to be "little more than a rubber stamping council". It is also mentioned that although there is a "twelve tablets" the people actually have no means of self expression in the government! Basically if anyone wants to support the Fedrats that is fine with me (we can get you later), but do not equate them with the United States.

P.S: Can you tell I am a Capellan fan.

[Jack Gammel]

THE 3rdbreed, on 13 January 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

There is a one word moniker we have for what House Davion.......AN ABSOLUTE MONARCHY! They have a blasted Prince! In page 101 of the sourcebook it outlines the powers of the "Principality", the powers granted to the prince are(I paraphrase) the control of all flow of money(and the power to tax is the power to destroy), the supreme control of the military, and the control of the ministry of administrative services (which also includes the judiciary).

As opposed to the Capellen Chancellor? "Great leader watches over you. He lets you starve because he cares."

And the FedSuns is not an "absolute monarchy." To be accurate, the Federated Suns government is a constitutional monarchy. You are right to say that the FedSuns isn't America in space. It's actually much closer to Great Britain.

[THE 3rdbreed]

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As opposed to the Capellen Chancellor? "Great leader watches over you. He lets you starve because he cares."

At least we are honest about it

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And the FedSuns is not an "absolute monarchy." To be accurate, the Federated Suns government is a constitutional monarchy. You are right to say that the FedSuns isn't America in space. It's actually much closer to Great Britain.

Constitutional by name maybe, but this 'constitution' does not restrict the First Prince it gives him absolute power! The Sourcebook says that the people have no real voice in the government. So maybe a Constitutionally Absolute Monarchy?

[THE 4thbreed]

at Least we have a sain and just ruler unlike some crazy guy i know.

[Jack Gammel]

THE 3rdbreed, on 14 January 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

Constitutional by name maybe, but this 'constitution' does not restrict the First Prince it gives him absolute power! The Sourcebook says that the people have no real voice in the government. So maybe a Constitutionally Absolute Monarchy?

There's a huge difference between an absolute monarchy and a constitutional monarchy. Traditionally, the concept of an absolute monarchy has been based on the concept of divine right (ex. the Mandate of Heaven or the Divine Right of Kings in Europe). An absolute monarch is capable of doing anything (at least in theory). The French Bourbon Dynasty is one of the best examples of this. While a Davion ruler might be able to get away with a lot in practice, that does not mean that he or she has the right to do so.

The FedSuns has a constitution. By itself this would disqualify the FedSuns from being an absolute monarchy. By establishing a rule of law a government technically places itself under the structure of the law. In fact, there are three rights granted to FedSuns citizens and protected by FedSun law. Furthermore, there are democratic systems within the Federated Suns which, while they do not necessarily make law, do give the people a real voice. I say a, "real voice," to qualify the difference between the civilian groups of the Federated Suns and real world systems like the progessive reforms in the late-era Russian monarchy. There are also other noble families in the FedSuns which hold significant hereditary territory and influence. These noble families can and have acted as foils to the Davions in the past, and make up a significant portion of the High Council (along with elected officials and military officers). While the High Council generally follows the lead of the Davion Family, the High Council and Privy Council have the responsibilty of running most of the day-to-day issues of the nation.

The Russian Czars, Chinese Emperors, French Bourbons, and Spanish Bourbons offer good real world examples of the traditional absolute monarchy. These are systems based on rulers who claim total power based on what they claim is religious right.

The British monarchy, regardless of what powers it may have had, was contained by the Magna Carta and centuries of struggle. Parliament, while it was not based on a written constitution (the FedSuns have an edge over the British crown there), is based on an oral constitution and tradition, and it possesses real political power, much like the High Council or the Privy Council.

Edited by Jack Gammel, 14 January 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[Charlic Wolf]

I don't know why but after reading Flash Point and playing the MW4 Mercs campaign, as well as Vengeance, I've always felt like Davion was where I was meant to be. Plus I can't STAND Liao. Pit me against those Capellans!... can we get some Battletech based emotes? That would help...

[THE 3rdbreed]

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<p>The FedSuns has a constitution. By itself this would disqualify the FedSuns from being an absolute monarchy. By establishing a rule of law a government technically places itself under the structure of the law. In fact, there are three rights granted to FedSuns citizens and protected by FedSun law.</p>
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<p>As I said, the Constitution <strong><u>gives</u></strong> the First Prince power to transcend and make law. If the law of the land gives the ruler power to transcend that law then the law is therefore not supreme and by definition not a constitution. A Citziens freedoms might be protected under law, but when that law is able to be completely rewritten and disregarded by the ruler, those same freedoms do not exist.</p>
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Furthermore, there are democratic systems within the Federated Suns which, while they do not necessarily make law, do give the people a real voice. I say a, &quot;real voice,&quot; to qualify the difference between the civilian groups of the Federated Suns and real world systems like the progessive reforms in the late-era Russian monarchy.

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<div>The &quot;democratic systems&quot; are irrelevant because they have no effect on the government! It says directly in the sourcebook that a planet's type of government is tied to the planet's aristocracy. When the Aristocracy turns the planet into a military dictatorship where do the people go? To there ruler; who happens to be the one leading the nobles, and who owns the judiciary that is supposed to deal out justice in the Prince's government.</div>
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<div>There are also other noble families in the FedSuns which hold significant hereditary territory and influence. These noble families can and have acted as foils to the Davions in the past, and make up a significant portion of the High Council (along with elected officials and military officers).</div>

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<p>As did every one of the Absolute monarchies you mentioned!</p>
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<p>While the High Council generally follows the lead of the Davion Family, the High Council and Privy Council have the responsibilty of running most of the day-to-day issues of the nation.<br />

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<p>I am glad you mentioned the High Council, that popularly elected group of individuals who (according to every single sourcebook) &quot;has lost all its power and is only a glorified rubber stamp for the Prince's policies&quot;(pg 103).(Sound like the Estates-General of Louis XIV?). The Privy council is completely appointed by the Prince, and serves at the discretion of the Prince. Although the Privy Council and High Council do set forth the <strong><u>PRINCE'S</u></strong> policies, it is actually the ministry of administrative services that handles the day to day working of the government (which by the way is controlled by the Prince.)</p>
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These are systems based on rulers who claim total power based on what they claim is religious right.

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<div>One can consider that the Successor Lord's obsession with the Star League is religious. I am just saying.</div>
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<div>The British monarchy, regardless of what powers it may have had, was contained by the Magna Carta and centuries of struggle. Parliament, while it was not based on a written constitution (the FedSuns have an edge over the British crown there), is based on an oral constitution and tradition, and it possesses real political power, much like the High Council or the Privy Council.<br />

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<p>There is no such device for the FedSuns, and as I said there &quot;constitution&quot; is not a constitution at all. Parliment is NOT, I repeat <strong><u>NOT</u></strong>, the High Council or Privy Council. If you do not believe me you can take it up with the writers and Sourcebooks. Just as the FedSuns is not the USA-in-space(if it was I would join it), it is equally not Great Britain either. At worst it is Napoleanic France; a dictatorship that paints everything it does with a false veneer of &quot;liberty&quot;!</p>
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<p>With these choices, I go with Liao!</p>
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Edited by THE 3rdbreed, 17 January 2012 - 12:15 PM.

[Coralld]

The only Great House that resembles America or at least did at one point in time was the Free Worlds Leage prea Star Leage, and they were VERY succesfull. But upon joining the Star Leage the Caption General ship gained more power that was granted to it by House Camerion at the time, and once the Star Leage fell the power of the Capition General ship grew even more which was one of the reasons why the FWL were having more and more internel troubles and iventual civil war. How ever in a later book, and one of the last one I have read, can't remember which one so I will have to get back to you on it, but one of the Family members, I forget her name, wan'ts to bring the FWL back to where it was once before which meens cutting off a lot of the power from the Capition General ship and other burocracies. The problem for her is that not every one in the family wants the power loss, also she doesnt have blood relations to the House its self but by marriage.

Edited by Coralld, 16 January 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[THE 3rdbreed]

Jessica Marik/Halas, she divorced her husband. As of Bonfire of Worlds, she has a unified, if a somewhat fragile, Free Worlds League. All in all, minus Regulan, half of the Marik-Stewert Commonwealth, the Duchy of Anduerian, and 3/4 of the Tamarind Abbey, Jessica has done a tip top job reuniting the core elements of the FWL.
(Not that I like the FWL mind you, but in Dark Ages there is a certain appeal to watching what was once destroyed rise again.)