50 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Kristian Radoulov, on 15 January 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

I'm not disagreeing with that at all, I was just coming at this from the POV that the (powercreep aka clan) ship has already sailed so we might as well try balancing apples to apples (ER weapons to ER weapons), rather than trying to balance apples to oranges (ER weapons vs STD). I agree that the IS will always need quirks, but I'd rather have certain weapons systems become obsolete rather than entire chassis written off because they don't have the "right" or "enough" quirks.

I think people come to play mechs here, not weapon systems for the most part, although I'm sure there are those people that are brawlers or snipers, etc. by nature and only play mechs that suit their playstyle.

I do think we should balance more 1-to-1, as in ER-to-ER. That said, I do think there remains a place for IS standard lasers with shorter range; they could generate less heat and have faster cool-downs. Making the isML more comparable to the C-SPL, for example, would be great without any range quirks, and we can leave standard IS pulse lasers as the final word in energy-based DPS at the cost of extreme range deficiency.

Clan Tech seems to be more about splitting the difference anyway. IS are good at extremes, Clans dominate the middle.

[Khobai]

Yes we need better 1:1 balance. For example, the ISML and the CERML should be roughly equal. Obviously we dont want even lower time-to-kill so it makes far more sense to nerf clan weapons than buff IS weapons.

For example:
ISML should be 5 damage, 4 heat, 3.0 cooldown, 0.9 beam duration, 270m range (1.28 dps)
CERML should be 6 damage, 5 heat, 3.25 cooldown, 1.15 beam duration, and 360m range (1.36 dps)

Thats what the CERML should look like for 1:1 balance. And obviously the CLPL needs to go through a similar rebalancing to be equal to the ISLPL. In general clan lasers should do more damage/higher dps, have more range, but have higher heat, longer cooldowns, and longer beam durations. Balancing the IS and Clan tech bases 1:1 would allow us to get rid of the IS superquirks and it would allow BOTH Clan and IS mechs to have quirks, so the underutilized clan mechs can get some much needed love.


For comparison this is the current CERML:
CERML = 7 damage, 6 heat, 3.0 cooldown, 1.15 beam duration, and 405m range.

Edited by Khobai, 15 January 2016 - 06:42 PM.

[jaxjace]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 15 January 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

As I was doing this, I noticed a trend. Mechs with higher percentages more often than not, had fewer harpoints (the notable exceptions of course being the BKs, the GHR-5H, the AWS-8Q, Quickdraws, BlackJacks, and the WVR-6K). It was especially notable in lights, with the +40% range quirks going to the lights that couldn't mount more than one or two.

The vast majority of mechs with range quirks still sat at 10%.

They all need their range scaled back to 15 at the most. only a handful of mechs need anything more than that. Laser duration to, that quirk is only deserved on a handful of mechs.

Wanna fix tihngs? bring down clan lrge pulse range to around 450 and increase IS burn times across the board, that way clans still have a range advantage but its not that major, and IS doesnt feel gimped but at the same time, reigning in the overquirked laser builds. Give all clan lasers the same treatment the ER medium got. Then increase IS duration to compensate.

Edited by jaxjace, 15 January 2016 - 06:41 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

bring down clan lrge pulse range to around 450

Going off how I rebalanced the CERML above...

The CLPL should be 12 damage, 9 heat, 3.5 cooldown, 0.9 beam duration, 485m range

Yes its worse dps than the ISLPL but its also a 1 ton lighter weapon. That 1 ton has to be accounted for
somehow or its not 1:1 balance.

Edited by Khobai, 15 January 2016 - 06:57 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I'm a fan of not eyeballing the change, and instead determining the importance of each behavioral trait and figuring out how useful something is based on the values it has attributed to those traits.

[Khobai]

you have to eyeball it to get a starting point. but yeah once you have a starting point you can make fine adjustements until it feels right.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 15 January 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

you have to eyeball it to get a starting point. but yeah once you have a starting point you can make fine adjustements until it feels right.

The only thing you have to eyeball is the level of weight to give each characteristic, and even then you can at least get a more objective idea by taking a poll of how people would rank those characteristics by level of importance.

[Lyoto Machida]

Nobody here is in favor of moving IS ML heat back to the TT value of 3 heat? Are massed IS MLs that dangerous in this day and age?

[Y E O N N E]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 January 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Nobody here is in favor of moving IS ML heat back to the TT value of 3 heat? Are massed IS MLs that dangerous in this day and age?

I think almost everybody is in favor of that change, but that alone won't fix the balance.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 16 January 2016 - 11:41 AM.

[Barantor]

I'd rather have mech specific modules that can be bought and equipped than so many quirks.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 January 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Nobody here is in favor of moving IS ML heat back to the TT value of 3 heat? Are massed IS MLs that dangerous in this day and age?

I'm in favor of it, as well as dropping the IS SL down to 1. With how prevalent the +10% energy range quirk (43% of the IS mechs having at least that much extra range) and how common the heat generation quirks are as well (92/192 mechs with E hardpoints) it also makes some sense to reduce the heat generated by some IS weapons (not all, the LL, LPL, and ERLL are plenty cool enough, IMO).