42 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

grievoussmaug, on 17 January 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

no but i dont lose side torsos in a clan mech when an ammo explosion happens in that side torso.

I spectated a Timberwolf with a gauss in the side torso that lost the entire sde when the gauss rifle exploded. However, no damage was transferred to the CT and the mech did not die. Ammo explosions are treated exactly the same as an exploding gauss rifle.

It is important to keep in mind that ammo is used from the top down. So if you have one ton in a side torso and 4 tons in the legs then the 1 ton in the ST is very quickly used up and in most matches you won't get an ammo explosion in the torso because the ammo is gone. Ammo stored in the head is used first

If you keep ammo in the ST on your mech then you will eventually see an ammo explosion unless you have used up all the ammo.

[Alistair Winter]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 17 January 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

The risk used to be quite high but as the PPC+ Gauss poptart meta took off it was reduced. Now with ballistics being out of favor further nerfing them isn't worth it IMO.

It's not about nerfing them, it's about adding a lay of complexity to the game. Like I said, buff them and and then make ammo explosions more dangerous (i.e. more common) to the point where they become a real danger and CASE becomes valuable. I do think ballistic weapons need to be cooler and have faster projectile speed, but I just want ammo explosions to be a bigger part of the game. Both in terms of game mechanics (e.g. forcing players to think more about ammo placement, torso twisting to protect ammo, etc) and also in terms of graphics (e.g. louder and bigger explosions when several tons of ammo explode inside a mech. Probably even a shockwave too.)

[FupDup]

CASE does something, it's just a relatively crappy something. You still lose your side torso (or other body parts) and everything in it, the only difference is that the explosion damage won't transfer to your CT.

The Clans at least have it for free in every body location, but the IS has to pay 0.5 tons + 1 slot for such mediocrity.

[Davegt27]

do clan Mechs have built in case?

[FupDup]

Davegt27, on 17 January 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

do clan Mechs have built in case?

Yes, in every body location.

[Deathlike]

IS mechs tend to not use them.

Clan mechs get them for "free" and in more locations (well, most importantly the arms, where ammo is a bit better located under some scenarios/situations).


It's kinda sad that the IS version really does suck more.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 January 2016 - 07:56 PM.

[GuardDogg]

I heard them work. "Ammo explosion" by betty and I am still running around. Does great for me.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Alistair Winter, on 17 January 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

It's not about nerfing them, it's about adding a lay of complexity to the game. Like I said, buff them and and then make ammo explosions more dangerous (i.e. more common) to the point where they become a real danger and CASE becomes valuable. I do think ballistic weapons need to be cooler and have faster projectile speed, but I just want ammo explosions to be a bigger part of the game. Both in terms of game mechanics (e.g. forcing players to think more about ammo placement, torso twisting to protect ammo, etc) and also in terms of graphics (e.g. louder and bigger explosions when several tons of ammo explode inside a mech. Probably even a shockwave too.)

Fair enough.

Also the ammo explosion animations are freaking bad ***.

[TheoLu]

Helsbane, on 17 January 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

CASE works on Clan XL engines because it takes 3 crits on an engine to kill it. Clan XLs only have 2 crit slots per side torso, while IS XL engines have three...

Was wondering about that, thanks.

[wanderer]

Skoll, on 17 January 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

lol if you think case works in this game and isn't just filler.

I have a STD engine Atlas.

Believe me, it works just fine. Ammo explosion, lost the side torso, kept right on trucking.

It's because the main reason you have CASE in many 'Mechs is moot because we don't have repair costs and can't perm-destroy a chassis.

CASE would shunt explosions away from the CT, which might disable a 'Mech if it had an XL engine, but massive explosions that destroyed the CT in tabletop would obliterate it completely, rendering it damaged beyond any hope of salvage or repair. Metal confetti, basically. Clan CASE is superior and contains the blast in -any- section it's in, allowing you to have ammo blow an arm off and preserve the ST if you pack it properly, or not have a leg ammosplosion work it's way up the same way.

Half a ton to save tens of millions of C-bills and have a 'Mech you can still get back on the field was well worth the price. In MWO, where you can't destroy the 'Mech and you don't have to worry about repairs, it's only good for standard-engine IS 'Mechs and Clanners, who get universal CASE for free.

Don't use CASE with IS XL builds. Thanks to the low odds on ammo exploding, it's marginal on IS standard builds, but if you pack a lot of ammo, it's still worth it.

[wanderer]

Also, I miss the original ammo explosions.

[Skoll]

If you store ammo anywhere but your head and legs, you deserve what happens.

[Nik Reaper]

Skoll, on 18 January 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

If you store ammo anywhere but your head and legs, you deserve what happens.

You are a very special snow flake, aren't you?

Otherwise, it's a fact that only few mech builds benefit from IS C.A.S.E. , mostly heavy ballistic boats with 3~4 UAC5 and LRM boats with >1000 ammo and a standard engine , and as we are in a Laser vomit XL meta those are rare, but still exist and are advised to carry a CASE if they find they die to ammo explosions , like my pore Lrm5 Kingcrab .

Edited by Nik Reaper, 18 January 2016 - 01:32 PM.

[Skoll]

Nik Reaper, on 18 January 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

You are a very special snow flake, aren't you?

That's what my mom tells me.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you store ammo anywhere but your head and legs, you deserve what happens.

100% disagree. arms are a way better place to store ammo than your head or legs. nobody aims for arms so theres little risk of ammo getting detonated there. but people do aim for heads and legs.

ammo in head is risky because an ammo explosion in your head is instadeath. yes its rare but why even take the chance when you can just put it in your arm instead?

same with legs, people do aim for legs, especially if its one of those IS mechs that gets structure quirks everywhere but the legs. ammo in legs also gets used LAST in the order so aiming at legs has a higher chance of hitting unused ammo than other locations.

[Nik Reaper]

Khobai, on 18 January 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

100% disagree. arms are a way better place to store ammo than your head or legs. nobody aims for arms so theres little risk of ammo getting detonated there. but people do aim for heads and legs.

ammo in head is risky because an ammo explosion in your head is instadeath. yes its rare but why even take the chance when you can just put it in your arm instead?

same with legs, people do aim for legs, especially if its one of those IS mechs that gets structure quirks everywhere but the legs. ammo in legs also gets used LAST in the order so aiming at legs has a higher chance of hitting unused ammo than other locations.

What kind of mechs and players do you usually play with/against? I've rarely had much head damage , got legged by light pack but almost always lose arms due to twisting, as most of my mechs have a shield side or empty arms for rolling damage that I tend to use... so no I wouldn't put ammo in something that is ~80% of torso stucture+armor and when blowing up can do 150x unused ammo bins that transfer 1/2 that number first to my side than to 1/4 of what remains to my CT... not unless we are talking clan with case everywhere, coz my srm timby has some in the arms.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 18 January 2016 - 05:09 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Skoll, on 18 January 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

If you store ammo anywhere but your head and legs, you deserve what happens.

Damage propogation legs>st>ct


100+ non-reduced damage will do that unless you're a quirked 100 tonner.

[IshyOQGX]

Is CASE worth it in my Orion's RT? There's a Gauss Rifle in it. Whenever I use CASE and the Gauss explodes, I don't lose my RT or RA...

[Khobai]

does CASE do anything? yes

Should CASE do more than it does? yes

In addition to preventing damage transfer from ammo explosions, CASE should also reduce ammo explosion damage in the same location by like 50%-75%.

Then it would be worth half a ton.

Quote

What kind of mechs and players do you usually play with/against? I've rarely had much head damage

um i play against players that aim for your head and often times hit it

I also aim for peoples heads. because theres no easier way to kill a mech. its like playing the lottery, you cant win if you dont buy a ticket, and if you dont aim for the head, you havent bought a ticket.

Edited by Khobai, 25 April 2016 - 09:49 AM.

[Trip Hammer]

Oh Lord, not this topic.....again.