74 replies to this topic

[LordMelvin]

I think the way UACs work is fine, although I do agree the jam chance on the first double tap should start lower and increase the longer you fire.

I think a heat meter would work better on RACs, although they're 2060 tech.

[Mad Porthos]

As a man who has faced down the spectre of the uac jam many times, I feel your pain. However, I also have tried to do something about it, by recording on shadowplay when I was using a uac, so that I could record the situation. This also made me aware of what was going on and left me dissatisfied, because in each case where it seemed to me that the jam had happened, it could well have been still a double tap. Even if it had not been a double tap though, a video of it happening would essentially look identical to a double tap, because when ever it went down it was in cases where I lightly tapped the fire button and it fired at least once, accompanying the jam... so it looks like I did do something to create a second "fire" input before the cooldown finished. So every video shows, whether with a Inner Sphere, or Clan UAC, that the ammo for ONE round already is expended before the jam happens, at which point the jam occured, then the ammo for a second shot is gone after the jam period was passed. So no "odd" disparity was there to report or be witnessed and without a camera literally on my finger and mouse, there's no way to indicate no double tap error on my end from a sensitive gaming mouse.

[Paigan]

The ONE most important thing military equipment needs is RELIABILITY.
UACs fail to provide that not only by jamming, but by jamming so unpredictably.
Every time I try to fit one, I stand before an enemy, unable to shoot until I'm dead.
So I rofl in silence and throw it out. First against a normal AC, then that against lasers because it just sucks for its weight, heat, size, ammo, projectile speed and explodability compared to lasers.

Edited by Paigan, 18 January 2016 - 10:52 AM.

[Felbombling]

The Ultras can indeed jam right off the bat, on the first click of the mouse. Has happened to me more times than I wish to recount.

[Kanajashi]

I feel like the barrel heat type system should be implemented. Conversing with Russ on twitter he was concerned that players would simply ignore regular ACs once they learn to manipulate the new UAC system. I believe that we can make both choices interesting to take and strong in their own situations. Regular ACs should be consistent long term DPS while UACs should be burst DPS better suited for poking battles. For example with the AC and UAC 5 from the IS:

AC5
cool-down - 1.66s

Consistent DPS - 3.01
Burst DPS - 3.01

UAC5
cool-down - 1.0s (removing the concept of double tapping, just a lower cooldown)

Barrel Heat per shot - 15
Barrel Heat cooldown rate - 4/s
Barrel Heat max - 100

Consistant DPS - 1.33
Burst DPS - 5.0

[TLBFestus]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 January 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Well, I would love too. But I ain't paying for FRAPS (so I can record more than 15 seconds at a time or whatever) and afterburner hasn't recorded in forever. Gonna see if I can get Shadowplay to work.

But I have encountered it, as have others, sorry to say I doubt it's a case of mass hallucination.

Shadowplay, as I've said multiple times is DEAD EASY to use and works like a charm.

You set it up and it records everything all the time in a loop which you can set between 1 minute and 15 or so. It doesn't suck away CPU time significantly and just runs in the background.

Toughest part is remembering it's actually there and and then remembering to hit the button (which you set) to save the last "x" minutes of play.

Comes with your Nvidia software.

[Tyler Valentine]

Jman5, on 18 January 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

I just tried to reproduce in the training ground with both a dual UAC/10 and a single UAC/20 and I went through all my ammo without jamming. Next time I'm in an actual game that is basically over I'll double check, but I've never seen it jam on my first shot and uac/10s are basically all I have been running in the past two months.

Are you sure your mouse isn't screwed up and accidentally double clicking? I once had a mouse that would do that.

Question: Are you seeing it jam immediately after the uac/20 projectiles shoot out?

I can't replicate it either, in the training grounds or in game, despite playing a lot of Clan ACs lately. Plenty of jams on the first double-tap but never on the first shot.

[Mister Blastman]

I'll have to twitch some games. Twitch is easier than shadowplay because it is already uploaded.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tyler Valentine, on 18 January 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

I can't replicate it either, in the training grounds or in game, despite playing a lot of Clan ACs lately. Plenty of jams on the first double-tap but never on the first shot.

The reason you may not be able to replicate it in training grounds is it may be associated to server/client communication. Training grounds is probably client authoritative which shouldn't in theory allow for that sort of confusion to occur between the server and client. At least this is my guess.

[Khobai]

Quote

If the weapon fills the overheat bar, than the specific gun(s) that overheat are 'destroyed' for the remainder of the game

it shouldnt destroy the gun

the whole point of an overheat shutoff is that it turns the gun off before it destroys itself

[Revis Volek]

Khobai, on 18 January 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

UAC20 definitely doesnt jam on the first shot.

As proof: if you build a mech with two UAC20s, and set them upto chain fire, they will NEVER jam. Because chainfiring UACs only fires them in single mode not ultra mode.

The only time the UAC20 can ever jam is when youre firing it in ultra mode.


But I agree the MWLL jam mechanic is so much better...

People say this, but it DOES happen. Happens to me very, very often in my Dakka DWF.

The 5's can jam on the first tap two, if i can find the video of my UAC20 and TWO (thats right, two) of my Three UAC5's jamming on my first double tap i will post it. Other wise maybe i will go make another one. It happens enough that it isnt hard to catch on tape.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 January 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

The reason you may not be able to replicate it in training grounds is it may be associated to server/client communication. Training grounds is probably client authoritative which shouldn't in theory allow for that sort of confusion to occur between the server and client. At least this is my guess.

Cooldowns dont work right in the Traning Grounds, They never have. So no thats not a good place to see how it works.

[Khobai]

Quote

People say this, but it DOES happen. Happens to me very, very often in my Dakka DWF.

No it doesnt. Ive tested it multiple times. And I just tested it again today.

Quote

Cooldowns dont work right in the Traning Grounds, They never have. So no thats not a good place to see how it works.

Good thing I didnt test it in training grounds then and tested it in an actual game. It cannot jam on the first shot.

[Mcgral18]

Assign "fire selected weapon group" to a keyboard button to remove mouse as a variable.

Test

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 18 January 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

Good thing I didnt test it in training grounds then and tested it in an actual game. It cannot jam on the first shot.

Just want to point out, just because it doesn't happen to YOU, does not mean it can't happen (I'm sure it is some sort of fallacy), especially if it is related to connections.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 January 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[Navid A1]

Jamming need to be reworked. Jamming on first """double tap""" gets old real fast (it does not jam on the first shot... its just your mouse button chatter when you release the key)

They can implement a heat bar... but they should not get rid of randomness. You see, a heat bar with a red line for jamming is a direct ticket to exploit ville.

Jam probability should start at 0% and increase the more you double tap

Like this:
first double tap = 0% chance
second = 5%
3rd = 10%
4th = 15%

A cooldown cycle without a double tap should decrease the jam chance one step.

[Revis Volek]

Khobai, on 18 January 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

No it doesnt. Ive tested it multiple times. And I just tested it again today.




Good thing I didnt test it in training grounds then and tested it in an actual game. It cannot jam on the first shot.

cool story bro...

There are pages of post about it. Just because it didnt happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen nor have we found out the reason why it is happening. Server/Client issues? Mouse issues? Too sensitive?

It happens, weather we are just perceiving it to happen the way we think or there is a bug, it happens.



Since your sample was so inclusive and well thought out. How many games did you play? 1, 3, 1000? Because if you think that after playing ONE game with ANYTHING you FIGURED it out you are lost beyond my help.

Edited by DarthRevis, 18 January 2016 - 12:45 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Khobai, on 18 January 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

No it doesnt. Ive tested it multiple times. And I just tested it again today.




Good thing I didnt test it in training grounds then and tested it in an actual game. It cannot jam on the first shot.

Don't test, apply. Take the UAC 20 into battle for about 100 drops over the next few days. Report back. Real battle. PUG queue. Have it be one of your primary weapons. Let us know how it goes.

[Jman5]

DarthRevis, on 18 January 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Cooldowns dont work right in the Traning Grounds, They never have. So no thats not a good place to see how it works.

Laser cooldown used to be broken, but they have fixed it recently. All other cooldowns are correct as far as I can tell.

[Navid A1]

Mister Blastman, on 18 January 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Don't test, apply. Take the UAC 20 into battle for about 100 drops over the next few days. Report back. Real battle. PUG queue. Have it be one of your primary weapons. Let us know how it goes.

Yup... i tested this before.

it does NOT jam on the first shot. It jams on the first double tap.

the problem here is when you release your mouse key. It does not go from state 1 to state 0. wear and tear over time causes the micro switch to chatter, before changing state. Therefore, your mouse output will be like this:
0000000101011111111101010000000
That.... is a double tap in MWO point of view.

However, PGI can fix this by giving a clearance time of like 0.05 seconds before reading a double tap.

Edited by Navid A1, 18 January 2016 - 12:52 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Navid A1, on 18 January 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Yup... i tested this before.

it does NOT jam on the first shot. It jams on the first double tap.

the problem here is when you release your mouse key. It does not go from state 1 to state 0. wear and tear over time causes the micro switch to chatter, before changing state.

However, PGI can fix this by giving a clearance time of like 0.05 seconds before reading a double tap.

so what happens when you are literally holding the button down, and not tapping?