74 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 January 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

so what happens when you are literally holding the button down, and not tapping?

Same thing... I did not know it could happen. But apparently small pressure change on the button can create a couple of micro chatters. (tested it)

It is so common on gaming mouses. (specially the logitech 502 that i'm using).


Try a keyboard key for that... and then report back you results...



Easy fix: there should be a clearance time of lie 0.05 seconds before you can double tap.

Edited by Navid A1, 18 January 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[Shredhead]

It definitely happens! First shot, weapon fires, jam. No double tap. Happens with all UACs.

[Trev Firestorm]

If it is jamming on the first doubletap instead of the first shot how do you explain the fact that the gun does not fire at all when this happens? By your logic the first round should be firing but this is not the case.

[Navid A1]

Trev Firestorm, on 18 January 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

If it is jamming on the first doubletap instead of the first shot how do you explain the fact that the gun does not fire at all when this happens? By your logic the first round should be firing but this is not the case.

Never saw that happening (and i've tested this UAC jam thing alot)
small bugs are everywhere in this game (its just that UAC jam effect is more severely felt)

I tested the case i mentioned before. 100% reproducible (if you have a mouse with this common problem)

Edited by Navid A1, 18 January 2016 - 01:12 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Trev Firestorm, on 18 January 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

If it is jamming on the first doubletap instead of the first shot how do you explain the fact that the gun does not fire at all when this happens? By your logic the first round should be firing but this is not the case.

Precisely!

Sometimes I'll press the button one time... JAM. No shot! Just JAM. It is like... MWO is looking at me...



And there's nothing I can do. It is coming for me.

[Herr Vorragend]

There is an old thread regarding the jam-bar. To be honest, I dislike the idea of it.
PGI should make the uacs never jam on the first shot and I consider them as good.

[Bobzilla]

I've had this happen a few times. I think it's ping and hsr related. I would guess that you click (1 click registered) then hsr does it thing, and rewainds your click to hit the target (2 clicks registered). But the 2nd click (which is the first but rewound) just happens to trigger jam, so the final solution presented for the first instance of click is a jam.

So i'm guessing its rare because you have to be aimed at a mech with a large diffence in ping, and then on top of that have the jam actually happen.

This is why you can't replicate it in the training grounds, or by just shooting at nothing in a match. And if you've never had this happen, it's because you have a really good/bad ping (not sure which but i'm thinking the better your ping vs a target the more often this would happen).

I'm guessing when PGI tests this, they have two mechs at the same ping so it'd never happen for them.


I could just be crazy, it's the only thing I could think of after being told it can't/shouldn't/doesn't happen, and then have it happen.

[Navid A1]

Bobzilla, on 18 January 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

I've had this happen a few times. I think it's ping and hsr related. I would guess that you click (1 click registered) then hsr does it thing, and rewainds your click to hit the target (2 clicks registered). But the 2nd click (which is the first but rewound) just happens to trigger jam, so the final solution presented for the first instance of click is a jam.

So i'm guessing its rare because you have to be aimed at a mech with a large diffence in ping, and then on top of that have the jam actually happen.

This is why you can't replicate it in the training grounds, or by just shooting at nothing in a match. And if you've never had this happen, it's because you have a really good/bad ping (not sure which but i'm thinking the better your ping vs a target the more often this would happen).

I'm guessing when PGI tests this, they have two mechs at the same ping so it'd never happen for them.


I could just be crazy, it's the only thing I could think of after being told it can't/shouldn't/doesn't happen, and then have it happen.

Weapon fire effects are client side as far as i know. Meaning, pressing the fire button should result in a fire effect... No server or HSR involved.


All of these problems have an easy fix, introducing tiny clearance times.

[Ace Selin]

Mister Blastman, on 18 January 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

I just played a game where my UAC/20 jammed on the FIRST SHOT five times in a row. FIVE TIMES IN A ROW.

The UAC/20 is not supposed to jam on the first shot. There are folks who say it does not do this. It does do this! It did it (repetition solves problems, right?) five times in a row.

Yet now you have been asked to video this very frequent occurrence you claim to have had, it never happens again ... weird!!

Edited by Ace Selin, 18 January 2016 - 01:40 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Ace Selin, on 18 January 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

Yet now you have been asked to video this very frequent occurrence you claim to have had, it never happens again ... weird!!

What are you talking about? I haven't played MWO in hours. Quit making things up.

[HollowBassman]

The UAC5 can jam on the 1st click without it ever firing a shot. I've had it happen several times while piloting a Shadowhawk with a UAC5. Although it isn't very common, I would guess it has happened more 5-10 times out of the 800 matches I've played with that mech.

[Helsbane]

I've had it happen several times on a single click. Single tap and instant jam. Logitech G502 mouse and not running macros of any kind.

[1Grimbane]

Mister Blastman, on 18 January 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

Definitely not double clicking. I play a lot of brutal doom--pretty conscious of my button presses.

lol got doomseeker for a while now my wife like the brutal doom mod the best however i prefer AOW

also yeah cuac-20's can jam on first shot. happens to me in chainfire mode no less

Edited by 1Grimbane, 18 January 2016 - 04:49 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

also yeah cuac-20's can jam on first shot. happens to me in chainfire mode no less

does anyone have a video of this happening?

because my dire wolves regularly chainfire x3 uac20s and x4 uac10s and x6 uac5s and none of them jam ever.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Forum full of people with high-end computers, and no one can find a way make this video?

Russ is flat out asking for proof. This is your chance. If it happens to you, PROVE IT.

[LordNothing]

Khobai, on 18 January 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

But I agree the MWLL jam mechanic is so much better...

in MWLL what jammed were the RACs, and it was roughly the same mechanic that mw4 used. i dont remember ultras jamming in other mechwarrior games (idk about mw3, i havent played that many missions because bugs on modern cpu), mechwarrior 2 and 4 had them implemented as tandemn fire weapons 2 shells per salvo.

heres how i would do an uac mechanic. a uac20 for example would do 20 damage over 4 shots jam free, followed by another 4 shots with a ramping jam chance (from 0% on the 4th shot to 100% on the 8th). the weapon would fire as long as the button is held down, releasing the button stops the burst. the cooldown time is proportional to the number of shots fired, fire 2 and you only have half the cooldown, fire 4 and you get a full cooldown, fire 6 and you get 1.5x cooldown time and so on. if the gun jams the cooldown time is doubled. firing the 8th shot always jams so assuming a 3 second cooldown, if you manage to fire all 8 shells, you have to wait for a 12 second cooldown! if you jam on 6, the cooldown time is 9 seconds, if you fire 6 without jamming the cool down is only 4.5.

the standard autocannon would have the same burst mechanic, you can fire partial bursts. but after 4 rounds it goes into its cooldown cycle instead of 'gamble time for damage' mode. you could also to partial bursts to reduce cooldown time.

[Khobai]

Quote

in MWLL what jammed were the RACs

No UACs could definitely jam in MWLL. They used an overheat bar that went up as you fired the weapon and if it maxed out they jammed. And they would automatically unjam after a certain duration.

http://wiki.mechlivi...tra_AutoCannons


RACs also used an overheat bar just like UACs. Except when RACs jammed they stayed permajammed until you went to a repair bay. I think later on they did change it so RACs unjammed automatically though same as the UACs.

UACs did not jam in MW3 or MW4 that I recall. Because UACs were simply the normal autocannons. And regular ACs didnt exist (they were phased out at that point in the timeline).

Quote

the cooldown time is proportional to the number of shots fired, fire 2 and you only have half the cooldown, fire 4 and you get a full cooldown, fire 6 and you get 1.5x cooldown time and so on.

No thanks. Thats absolutely terrible. I would much rather take my chances with RNG and a 17% jam rate than have a guaranteed double cooldown delay every time I fire in ultra mode.

The way UACs should work is an overheat bar. Exactly like how they worked in MWLL and similar to how MASC works in MWO. You can keep firing until the weapon overheats at which point it forcibly jams. And the weapon would take 3-4 times longer to cool down than it takes to build-up heat insuring that UACs can only be used a burst fire weapons and not sustained dps weapons.

Edited by Khobai, 18 January 2016 - 07:41 PM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Can't speak to the jamming-on-first-shot thing. But as regards it, there are other ways to implement a jam mechanism that work better than a flat, per-doubletap percentage chance.

A lot of people here are proposing the "jam bar". Definitely better than the mechanism we have now.

Still, I prefer the progressive percent chance. (Start at 0% for first doubletap and add X% jam chance per shot following; dissolving counter of =[weapon cooldown] to reduce jam chance by X%.)

This is because (in my understanding) the jamming isn't from heat; rather, it's from the loading mechanism.

Thus, I wouldn't want to remove the percent chance altogether and replace it with infinite firing up to a guaranteed "jam point".

Besides, the overall 'Mech heat and shutdown mechanism that we have now is already the "protect myself from self-destruct" that a jam point would be.

[xXBagheeraXx]

What you are doing probably is immediatly hitting the fire button again as soon as you fire the initial salvo...I have noticed it seems like if you pace your shots and let it completly finish one salvo or shot before you double tap you get less jams...Ive ripped into mechs for minutes at a time lately in my UAC5 muromets and only occasionally get more than 1 gun jammed...Try pacing your fire...Tho I do admit clan Uac20's do seem to jam on double taps fairly often...i rarely use them.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Jam frequency should also be a function of how big the weapon is. A UAC2 double-tap isn't nearly as devastating as a UAC20 doubletap, so they should jam less frequently.