62 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Like this Zeus. That's why they have arms instead of twin cannons like the Jagermech. Because the Arm can be straightened and raised when needed.

[Apnu]

Sader325, on 21 January 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

So I bought a black knight and I gotta say: Low energy points are really stupid.

It's a great brawler, and thats all well and good, but seriously I think its way past time for an arm extended sniping mode.

It would also be pretty ******* simple to balance.

How would it work? Simple.

Press a button and your left or right arm extends straight out in front of you.

When in this mode your mech can only move half speed, and when you do move you get reticle shake as long as you're on the throttle.

Boom, suddenly the black knight has a reason to toss some large lasers or PPC's in the arm.

I'm sure it can be animated to not look completly stupid, I dunno give them some kind of stance



MECHS HAVE ARMS, stop being lazy PGI.

Yes mechs with all actuators should be able to fire from shoulder level. What's the point of having arm acutators at all in the game if they do nothing?

Instead of all those rules, why not have a delay as the mech raises its arm, and a button to raise the arms. Have them then act like mechs with out lower arm actuators (Blackjack, Jager) and feel "stiff" and lack yaw, but have plenty of pitch and can fire from cockipit or just below cockpit level

By doing so, the would have to lower them again to get good arm yaw, and use them as shield like the Cent and others.

[DaZur]

There's a lot that doesn't translate from TT into the game and this is a perfect example.

The problem is allowing arm elevation further mitigates mech diversity. The reality is high mount weapons are superior to low mount and as such in short order everyone will have their mechs stomping around like some sleep walking zombie freak.

It would be cool and obviously useful but in the end detrimental to game play diversity.

[Hotthedd]

DaZur, on 21 January 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

There's a lot that doesn't translate from TT into the game and this is a perfect example.

The problem is allowing arm elevation further mitigates mech diversity. The reality is high mount weapons are superior to low mount and as such in short order everyone will have their mechs stomping around like some sleep walking zombie freak.

It would be cool and obviously useful but in the end detrimental to game play diversity.

That is why there needs to be a drawback.

[ProfessorD]

I like it. I've been disappointed for years that Mechwarrior game developers have never figured out how to allow for proper arm movement.

[GRiPSViGiL]

DaZur, on 21 January 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

There's a lot that doesn't translate from TT into the game and this is a perfect example.

The problem is allowing arm elevation further mitigates mech diversity. The reality is high mount weapons are superior to low mount and as such in short order everyone will have their mechs stomping around like some sleep walking zombie freak.

It would be cool and obviously useful but in the end detrimental to game play diversity.

Mechs are already redundant but the humanoid ones sure could use this mechanic to set them apart....people would still pick the ones they want people to see them in. I see your point as a non-issue since it would actually make humanoid mechs more diverse.

[Steve Pryde]

Greyhart, on 21 January 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

I look forward to all the Mechs with arms starting to look like Zombies with their arms straight out in front as they run across the field of battle.

yes the arms should raise but I am not sure what the disadvantage should be because if it wasn't significant everyone would just have them perpetually raised.

No arm movement, that's the disadvantage. Key "Q" for left arm to rise up and down and "E" for the right arm. could be so simple.

[Blue Boutique]

Hotthedd, on 21 January 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

That is why there needs to be a drawback.

Slave it to freelook, no torso twist but you get extensions for one arm of your choice. Should simulate the "aimed shots" mechanic from TT.

[Almond Brown]

pbiggz, on 21 January 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

Its cryengine, it supports natively pretty much everything pgi is too stupid to use. This game should have different gravities, fire convergence, dynamic weather, etc. They're refusing to use built in cryengine functionality and I don't know why.

We're allowed to tell you something wont happen because PGI has no programmers. Im not sugar coating anything for you just to make you feel good.

You be sure and let us know when your F2P Game using CryEngine gets Released...ok. We'll help Test it for you too.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

DaZur, on 21 January 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

There's a lot that doesn't translate from TT into the game and this is a perfect example.
The problem is allowing arm elevation further mitigates mech diversity. The reality is high mount weapons are superior to low mount and as such in short order everyone will have their mechs stomping around like some sleep walking zombie freak.
It would be cool and obviously useful but in the end detrimental to game play diversity.

Nah. As long as the drawbacks will be strong enough to keep arm raising situational (various mobility penalties, reticule shake on movement, raised crit chance, higher heat - you name it), upper arm movement would be quite the opposite - a boon to diversity:
1. This mech has high hardpoints and all benefits their bring. Good for hillpoking, good overall.
2. This mech has low slung arms, but can raise them pretty high, so it can if needed serve as a mobile hillpoker. Just be sure the enemy can't jump you before you lower them back (as e.g. animation takes a bit of time).
3. This mech has low slung arms, but can raise them pretty high to poke if needed. Worse than 2, because he raises them laterally what makes them very easy to get shot off, but then it has more hardpoints on that arms so it's still worth a try if the enemy doesn't know your position yet. Just don't think of arm poking if they know you may poke like that.
5. This mech has low slung arms and it can't raise them too much, so arm raising is a waste of time here. But hey, it got decent quirks to compensate and/or (insert other advantage here) - good at other roles.

Arm raising type (forward, sideway) and amount of movement would be just another trait of a mech, next to weight, quirks, size, hitboxes, boating ability, cockpit location, hardpoint location etc.

[Lyoto Machida]

GRiPSViGiL, on 21 January 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Sorry not within PGIs skill set to actual be able to do.

pbiggz, on 21 January 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

We're allowed to tell you something wont happen because PGI has no programmers. Im not sugar coating anything for you just to make you feel good.

Almond Brown, on 21 January 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

Does your HATE of PGI HEAT the whole ISLAND, or just your little part of it?

And posting something constructive in any thread is obviously not in your skill set either.

Almond Brown, on 21 January 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

You be sure and let us know when your F2P Game using CryEngine gets Released...ok. We'll help Test it for you too.

While it's true I probably wouldn't take advice about women from a virgin, I also don't need to go to jail to know I wouldn't enjoy the type of affection they share in the cells.

Bottom line is that PGI most likely can't pull it off because they don't have the technical know how or desire. We don't need to code our own MW game to realize this.

[Sandpit]

Lykaon, on 21 January 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

No thanks I don't need some arm weapon elevation at the cost of my mech's survival. Half speed plus reticule shake? that is way to much sacrifice for not enough advantage.

Honestly having arm lock engaged so the arms can only pivot at the shoulder would be enough. You trade lateral aiming for vertical height.

agreed

A better solution to me would be arm lock in that mode, why in the world would something as simple as locking your arms require your mech's top speed to be cut in half?

Maybe some reduction is torso twist speed and arm reflex movement. I don't know why people think every change or reduction has to be so severe and require complex mechanics?

[Lyoto Machida]

Sandpit, on 21 January 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

agreed

A better solution to me would be arm lock in that mode, why in the world would something as simple as locking your arms require your mech's top speed to be cut in half?

Maybe some reduction is torso twist speed and arm reflex movement. I don't know why people think every change or reduction has to be so severe and require complex mechanics?

Probably because PGI usually just programs things to have a benefit with no drawbacks (weapon modules, for one). Would be nice for the player base to actually have a make a choice but it's pretty rare in this game outside of loadouts. I mean...look at our placeholder skill tree, for example.

Keeping the arms raised is a drawback in itself, in regards to blocking shots (torso twisting). The rate of torso twist could be lowered a bit with the arms out to simulate physics or whatever (substitute leg for arm in the following gif...same principle):

[LordBraxton]

pbiggz, on 21 January 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

We're allowed to tell you something wont happen because PGI has no programmers. Im not sugar coating anything for you just to make you feel good.

qft

[Sandpit]

Lyoto Machida, on 21 January 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

Probably because PGI usually just programs things to have a benefit with no drawbacks (weapon modules, for one). Would be nice for the player base to actually have a make a choice but it's pretty rare in this game outside of loadouts. I mean...look at our placeholder skill tree, for example.

Keeping the arms raised is a drawback in itself, in regards to blocking shots (torso twisting). The rate of torso twist could be lowered a bit with the arms out to simulate physics or whatever (substitute leg for arm in the following gif...same principle):

apples and oranges.

I'm not interested in the "I hate PGI" rhetoric. All that does is give others credibility when they say things like "Theyr'e just disagreeing because they hate PGI" and other nonsense.

If you have ideas for MWO, suggest them. If you have counters for pre-existing ideas, present them.

Leave all the other crap for troll threads. That's all it is. Nobody really cares whether you hate PGI, think they're "incompetent", etc. Not you personally, but everyone. Yay, your personal opinion is (insert how PGI ruined or saved your whatever here), great. Don't care

What I do care about are constructive discussions that help come up with alternatives and improvements to MWO and CW. Other than that, go play in K Town, that's what it's there for.

Less opinions on PGI
More opinions on how to improve MWO

[Lyoto Machida]

Sandpit, on 21 January 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

apples and oranges.

I'm not interested in the "I hate PGI" rhetoric. All that does is give others credibility when they say things like "Theyr'e just disagreeing because they hate PGI" and other nonsense.

If you have ideas for MWO, suggest them. If you have counters for pre-existing ideas, present them.

Leave all the other crap for troll threads. That's all it is. Nobody really cares whether you hate PGI, think they're "incompetent", etc. Not you personally, but everyone. Yay, your personal opinion is (insert how PGI ruined or saved your whatever here), great. Don't care

What I do care about are constructive discussions that help come up with alternatives and improvements to MWO and CW. Other than that, go play in K Town, that's what it's there for.

Less opinions on PGI
More opinions on how to improve MWO

I think much of the older player base is fatigued from giving out numerous ideas (some of which are excellent) and having PGI completely ignore them. Sure, PGI has implemented some things that the player base has called for but who really wanted ghost heat as a balancing mechanism when there were other alternatives? Different radar ranges based on mech size, heat cap/dissipation changes, convergence ideas...many of those were ignored completely. Things that are supposed to be bandaids end up as long term features far too often here (skill tree, etc).

The bottom line is that changes will only be implemented by PGI if they have the programming ability, funds, vision and desire to implement said idea. People can lobby all they want but it won't happen unless those things are all in order. PGI has the data and metrics to see what is going on. If they want something broken or underperforming, they will leave it that way (MGs, flamers, LB-10Xs, AC2s, etc). If they want a meta to rule for awhile, they'll leave it that way as well (poptarts for almost a damn year, etc). In the end, it is their game and they'll adjust it as they see fit (or not).

[Sandpit]

Lyoto Machida, on 21 January 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

I think much of the older player base is fatigued from giving out numerous ideas (some of which are excellent) and having PGI completely ignore them.

I'm one of those players.

That's why I'm more interested in the community's ideas now. There are some things we can help with just by becoming a community. Helping players, direct CW, all without having to go outside of the game or local community. We've got a lot of effort o work outside of MWO, and not much to work within.

We can easily set up things.
http://mwomercs.com/...h/page__st__740

That right there is a way you can do that.

[DaZur]

Hotthedd, on 21 January 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

That is why there needs to be a drawback.

Sorry... The ability to raise (and lock) arms advantage is so high the mitigation drawback would be unsustainable. Bare in mind your not just allowing mech to elevate their arms... You are opening a Pandora's box of abuse.

GRiPSViGiL, on 21 January 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

Mechs are already redundant but the humanoid ones sure could use this mechanic to set them apart....people would still pick the ones they want people to see them in. I see your point as a non-issue since it would actually make humanoid mechs more diverse.

Yes and no... Of course humanoid mechs are largely redundant. That said this mechanic would remove any advantage one might select a Rifleman or a Jager over a Quickdraw or a Executioner ect...

Prof RJ Gumby, on 21 January 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

Nah. As long as the drawbacks will be strong enough to keep arm raising situation (various mobility penalties, reticule shake on movement, raised crit chance, higher heat - you name it), upper arm movement would be quite the opposite - a boon to diversity:

See above... There is no drawback that would be sufficient to mitigate the huge advantage this mechanic brings.

The reality is those of you advocating for this are too close to the desire. You are failing to appreciate the massive advantage and under-appreciating how this community, specifically meta-humpers would abuse this mechanic.

I'm with you... I think it'd be pretty cool. That said, I'm also not to myopic to not appreciate how quickly this would be abused.

Edited by DaZur, 21 January 2016 - 04:31 PM.

[jaxjace]

I think this is a good idea, however im not in favor of reticule shake, Just a slight movement speed negative (20 percent?) the arms would have to actually come up and become on level with the highmounts and the torso, and the hitbox would have to come up as well to be used as a face shield.

Obviously you would be able to side torso someone way easier with raised arms.

Edited by jaxjace, 21 January 2016 - 04:51 PM.

[DivineEvil]

Completely support that. Not that it's an idea of itself, but something that had to be considered long, looooong time ago. Raise one arm - minus 50% max speed, minus 25% torso twist speed. Raise second arm - minus 75% max speed, minus 50% torso twist.

This issue hurts me just as much, as fixed Heads on mechs like Centurions, Grasshoppers or Victors - they all were supposed to able to turn them. Not that much really, just as much as Arms can yaw sideways. If only mech's head could turn following the circle reticle, it would make using Arm-mounted weapons so much easier! So much disparity between mechs, and yet PGI scrapped both.

And now we're stuck with Arms, that generally used as shields, or just as another optional torso mounts hangin' low. Maybe a tool to shoot down UAVs, also. Nothing to actually make advantage of. A great shame, really...

Edited by DivineEvil, 21 January 2016 - 05:02 PM.