53 replies to this topic

[Hans Von Lohman]

So perks are a bit of a weird topic. I like them as they make under-performing mechs better, but cheese builds are also a problem.

Would it be a good idea to have good perks for a default weapon build, and lose perks as you change the mech to be something else, perhaps going into negative quirks as you move toward a problematic build (aka the 6 PPC stalker).

Just an idea.

[Tyler Valentine]

Cool idea. Sounds like 10x as many variables to balance when quirking though and it's hard enough as it is.

I'm a big proponent of the hard point specific quirks that reward using the stock weapon system in any given location.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I keep asking for random 3025 stock mech mode but it's never gonna happen

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 21 January 2016 - 01:30 PM.

[zagibu]

It's worth a pondering. The main problem is that some mechs have horrible stock configurations. Even massively buffed, they would still suck and nobody apart from some hardcore fans would run them stock.

[Tyler Valentine]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 21 January 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

I keep asking for random 3025 stock mech mode but it's never gonna happen

If the game stays successful for long enough I bet we'll eventually get it. There are enough of us clamoring for it and Russ has acknowledged it on Twitter... LOW priority but again, given enough time and success...

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Tyler Valentine, on 21 January 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

If the game stays successful for long enough I bet we'll eventually get it. There are enough of us clamoring for it and Russ has acknowledged it on Twitter... LOW priority but again, given enough time and success...

Or at least a scenario mode. Like you have to defend a town with a bunch of stock urbanmechs against a couple of damaged medium stock mech lances.

Yeah I can do it in private mode but it'd add a lot to mwo.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Quirks originally followed stock loadouts, but PGI outsourced the Intel gathering to a few secret squirrels, who abused the system to assign quirks based on there preferred meta loadouts. There was a public backlash and PGI repealed many of those changes. However as quirks expanded, so did the pork-belly quirk lobbiest, so you will still see the oddly quirked and over-quirked chassis someone called in a favor for.
Now quirks are such a prevalent commodity that only the most egregious offenders are ever culled, and there is still zero accountability for abuse of authority, meaning today's mistakes will also be made tomorrow.

[Chuck Jager]

The old GI or Huggin quirks would not be enough to think about taking some of the default loadouts. Common, single heatsinks sub 250 std engines and less than 1 ton of ammo. This more like enabling a bad builder to think they can just buy a mech and go into game.

If folks like stock, there are private lobbies for the tons of folks who can not get enough of the stock hipster bug. Wait it is hard to find enough people who want to put forth some effort to play in a stock league - OMG.

[Hillslam]

This is a great idea. Even the worst stock mech can be made usable thru perks.

Also, stock mechs.


3025 4evah neverforget

[El Bandito]

I just want sized hardpoints.

[Skoll]

Honestly, I feel like all of the MW games with their near infinite customization have robbed all the Battlemechs of their personality. We used to run stock leagues in the older MW games but I don't see that catching on here because of the powergaming mentality associated with MP games these days. Everyone has to have the best littlest snowflake.

Just my two cents though, as I continue to run a 4x SRM6 Atlas.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Chuck Jager, on 21 January 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

The old GI or Huggin quirks would not be enough to think about taking some of the default loadouts. Common, single heatsinks sub 250 std engines and less than 1 ton of ammo. This more like enabling a bad builder to think they can just buy a mech and go into game.

If folks like stock, there are private lobbies for the tons of folks who can not get enough of the stock hipster bug. Wait it is hard to find enough people who want to put forth some effort to play in a stock league - OMG.

I just said stock weaponry. I never mentioned the engines or armor on purpose. Even I know that you have to allow mechs to run certain "must have" bits of gear to be playable. Mainly that you max out your armor and you always have double heat sinks, endo steel usually, but never run FF armor unless you have the room for it.

My thing is preferring that a mech model with a known weapon load out should probably have that load out. Modifying it is possible, but your perks benefit goes down the more you change.

I.E. Swapping the large laser on a Thunderbolt 5S from the right arm with a medium laser from the left torso, and deleting the SRM-2. That is three changes as far as I am concerned.

To me that should be where ghost heat comes from. You put weapons in weird places that the mech never had, so "bad things" happen. If you put 6 PPC's on a stalker, even firing one of them will have extra heat, and firing more than one at a time will really ramp up noticeably.

A mech was carefully designed with X weapons in Y locations, and now that they're different, unforeseen issues start developing, such as weapon charge up times that it never had before, or longer recycle rates, or generating more heat, or less damage, or jams on normal autocannons and more frequent jams on ultras, ect. Whatever penalties you want.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 21 January 2016 - 09:13 PM.

[Hawk_eye]

In my opinion (yes, just an opinion), most stock mech load-outs are bad, because most maps favor certain builds (and pinpoint accuracy and instant convergence doesn´t help either).
If we had, say, a random 50/50 mix of long-range and short-range favoring maps (instead of a voted 85/15 mix), those mixed stock builds would suddenly look a lot better.

And I completely agree with you, Hans, changing the weapons load-out _should_ impact on the perks.

Those perks can´t really represent the actual _weapon_ being superior (I mean, a PPC is a PPC is a PPC). If a PPC performs superior in one mech, then this is the result/represents the carefully designed/crafted combination of placement and electronics, like the Targeting and Tracking system of the mech (at least that is how I try to rationalize those perks)
Tinkering with this should remove that perk since, well, that perfect balance has now been broken.

[Chuck Jager]

Darn just posted something that is not a reflection of what I want my public persona to be perceived as. I did mean every single word, but I should just keep it to myself. Probably better to let others read between the lines.

Carry on.

Edited by Chuck Jager, 21 January 2016 - 11:28 PM.

[ChapeL]

Sounds alot like perks one gets for equipping certain pieces of armor together in a fantasy MMO. I like the idea!

"If your Awesome 8Q has 3 PPCs equipped it's heat generation is halved" .. or some such

[Chuck Jager]

ChapeL, on 21 January 2016 - 11:29 PM, said:

Sounds alot like perks one gets for equipping certain pieces of armor together in a fantasy MMO. I like the idea!

"If your Awesome 8Q has 3 PPCs equipped it's heat generation is halved" .. or some such

I think a default named build with certain items hardwired in and only other choices/hardpoints available for the change could work well. These named builds could be either lore or in game meta, probably a combo of the 2 to not make it a political argument. I love playing the 2ac2 mlasers BJ, and the horrendous structure quirks actually make that build loss of overall damage and fire suppression role useable, but when I put 3lplas on it I can play pretty carelessly at any range and do really well. I would say there is a huge group of folks who feel like quirks dictate a build and wear tin foil hats claiming it is PGIs plan to limit their creativity. By splitting most weapons quirks between general and a specific type means that to make ppcs, short range lasers, ac2 or a stock loadout maybe playable, but the general quirks at 1/2 the total make the OP choices painfully obvious to the seal clubbers and the seals.

Folks would still complain that they want the quirk without the arm mounts, and PGI is talking to them through the refrigerator.

[Elizander]

ChapeL, on 21 January 2016 - 11:29 PM, said:

Sounds alot like perks one gets for equipping certain pieces of armor together in a fantasy MMO. I like the idea! "If your Awesome 8Q has 3 PPCs equipped it's heat generation is halved" .. or some such

I'd rather get "If your awesome has 3 PPCs, you can fire all three without Ghost Heat." :3

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Leave Stock for "incoming" Stock Mode.
Hard point located quirks is by far the most possible solution to those problems.

[Dodger79]

I love this idea! IT completely ignores the meta and makes the Mechs perform better the way they were constructed, making mixed builds viable. Just a very good idea!

[Red Shrike]

It's a very interesting idea! I'd love to see it in increments though. If a stock mech has 10 weapons, and you switch out or remove 6 of them, then you'd only get 40% of the stock perk.

But my question is, how will this apply to mechs that aren't stock, but not custom either?
Example: my WHM-6R has 7 of his 9 stock weapons (removed the small lasers), that would mean I'd get about 70% of the stock perk. But my -6R has been upgraded to a -6Rb minus the small lasers. Does that mean I lose more of the stock perk because it is not a -6R? Or do I get to keep the 70% because it is still mostly a lore-friendly (I think it's lore-friendly) build?