284 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Barantor, on 22 January 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

Some folks want all the maps to be like a paintball field, I want it to be like a natural environment (or alien, space etc).

Some folks look at the lasers, ballistics and missiles as the 'weapon', I look at the mech as the weapon.

Some folks only want to play a precision game akin to Tribes, I want to blast things to bits more like World of Battleships.

Some folks view the battletechs only for their hardpoints, I view them for their game lore and feel.


Different strokes for different folks, I hope we get Solaris too eventually so that everyone can enjoy all of what MWO is trying to do.

That said, I think this new map is one of their best and allows for new and interesting movement tactics that don't rely on artificial feeling cliffs and corners. I can understand the dislike for some who are more used to the lanes and cover that are the hallway maps of CW, but this is a map for those like me, not those that like those other things. I do want urban maps that are full cities, but as far as a rolling field of battle, this one is friggin awesome.

boy, If only we had Solaris so we could ship the ArenaWarriors to it......

Of course, even then they would still insist that all other maps and gamemodes cater to them, because

[Kjudoon]

Skoll, on 22 January 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

No, I'm just a naturally disdainful person with no respect for anyone else.

Obviously.

[Skoll]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

boy, If only we had Solaris so we could ship the ArenaWarriors to it......

Of course, even then they would still insist that all other maps and gamemodes cater to them, because

I agree with the gist of what you are saying but all the constant memes you post make me want to strangle you IRL and detracts a lot from your message.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

I mean it really doesn't matter. I just think getting NARCed sucks. Getting shot sucks too but its easier to avoid.

actually it is very easy to avoid and/or counter... which is why NARC is not that common,or prevalently an issue on other maps.

Now what comes AFTER one does get narc'd.......................

Skoll, on 22 January 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

I agree with the gist of what you are saying but all the constant memes you post make me want to strangle you IRL and detracts a lot from your message.

then it's serving the desired mission, as long as it's annoying the whiners just as much.

Also, for IRL stranglings? Folks are welcome to come to Manzanillo, MX and try, anytime.

Also..."constant" memes? Hyperbole much?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 January 2016 - 09:05 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

exactly.... except that NARC/LRM is not overwhelming and "the one true way" on EVERY. SINGLE. MAP. AND: GAMEMODE.

Oh dear god, NARC got me killed one time in 20 on one map....

There is a good reason for that, in fairness: When you get focus laservomited to death, you can self reflect and say 'that was MY fault. I crested that ridge when i shouldn't have' and knowing you could have done something differently helps. If you get an ECM light sneak up and NARC you from 600m away when you never saw them, and then get rekt by LRMs you could never see the firers of, and you never exposed yourself once.. you feel more like "wtf thats totally unfair, there was nothing i could have done differently"

Disclaimer: i LOVE the new map, and i have no problem with LRMs being actually effective on a map. I still wont bring AMS, because on 90% of maps its 100% a waste of tonnage, so ill take my knocks on Polar if i have to.

[TheCharlatan]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

actually it is very easy to avoid and/or counter... which is why NARC is not that common,or prevalently an issue on other maps.

No offence, but please explain how it's "very easy" to avoid getting narced by a light/fast medium.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 22 January 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

There is a good reason for that, in fairness: When you get focus laservomited to death, you can self reflect and say 'that was MY fault. I crested that ridge when i shouldn't have' and knowing you could have done something differently helps. If you get an ECM light sneak up and NARC you from 600m away when you never saw them, and then get rekt by LRMs you could never see the firers of, and you never exposed yourself once.. you feel more like "wtf thats totally unfair, there was nothing i could have done differently"

Disclaimer: i LOVE the new map, and i have no problem with LRMs being actually effective on a map. I still wont bring AMS, because on 90% of maps its 100% a waste of tonnage, so ill take my knocks on Polar if i have to.

This is what I was trying to say, but be prepared to hear all the reasons why you got NARCed and what you could have done to prevent it. Common ones are:

Why don't your lights wolfpack that light?
Use you W key and run away from the lurms.
I have no issues with lurms I just stay low in the trenches. I've only been killed like once.
You clearly get NARCed all the time, show us on the doll where the NARC touched you.
Bring ECM.
Bring radar deprivation.
What's the matter, you comp player can't adapt?

I probably missed a couple.

[H I A S]

Skoll, on 22 January 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

This is the problem with online games and "competition" players. They assume that because their entire lives revolve around said game, their opinion is somehow more than anyone else's and the game should conform to how they like to play and their opinion.

My answer to that is you can suck a fat one, I don't give a crap what your KDR is in an online game.

Im part of a Compunit and i like Polar. So many butthurt against comps.

[Bishop Steiner]

TheCharlatan, on 22 January 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

I need to ask a question: if a mech could take a DoT weapon that if hit an enemy mech ONCE would cause incredible amounts of damage to it that basically takes it out of the game, would that be ok?
Because being NARCed on Hoth is exactly that: you get NARCed, you die or get heavily crippled, unless you are lucky and someone (who is not you) has brought ECM and is near you.
Is NARC OP? Absolutely not. And it's nice that it is useful on Hoth. But maybe it's just a little too useful there, understand what i'm saying?
Having cover that actually works (just having the gullies a bit deeper) would not kill the map, it would just make being NARCed not be a death sentence.

BTW, i made a thread about NARC and powering down a few days a go. Most people were saying that it dosen't work for breaking NARC lock.

Thing is that isn't what happens with NARCs. You get locked, and then you get DPS showered.

Also, the way focus fire and laser vomit works, yes you are essentially being hit by one giga damage weapon more often than not. And just like DoT focus fire... sucks for the one guy getting melted...why aren't the other 11 killing the guys who HAVE TO HOLD THEIR TARGET BOX ON THE NARC'D GUY IN THE INTERIM?

tell me does this poor guy know or care that he was shot by one mech, many, lasers or LRMs?

Nope.

TheCharlatan, on 22 January 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

Edit: i think NARC should be used to say "skip a turn" to a mech. Not "Die with no way out".

And so far I think you are waaaay overstating the prevalence and effectiveness of NARC.

[TheCharlatan]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

This is what I was trying to say, but be prepared to hear all the reasons why you got NARCed and what you could have done to prevent it. Common ones are:

Why don't your lights wolfpack that light?
Use you W key and run away from the lurms.
I have no issues with lurms I just stay low in the trenches. I've only been killed like once.
You clearly get NARCed all the time, show us on the doll where the NARC touched you.
Bring ECM.
Bring radar deprivation.
What's the matter, you comp player can't adapt?

I probably missed a couple.

None of what you stated (except moving away from LRMs) are under your control in PUG drops or make any difference against NARCing...

[Bishop Steiner]

Skoll, on 22 January 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

No, I'm just a naturally disdainful person with no respect for anyone else.

we hadn't noticed.....

[Gas Guzzler]

TheCharlatan, on 22 January 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

None of what you stated (except moving away from LRMs) are under your control in PUG drops or make any difference against NARCing...

That's the point. Those were the responses and "advice" that I got when I said, essentially, that "getting NARCed sucks, especially so on Polar Highlands"

[cSand]

lol the lord of the meta can't laserboat-peek his way utta this paper bag
META FO LIFE

3 LPL ON A QKD

lol

the internet is full of clowns, myself included

[Appogee]

This is quite ironic given that Gman's metamechs recommendations are generally so LL/ERL centric.

I like the new map. It offers a different experience to the other maps. I haven't experienced any LRM problems that a trench didn't fix.

However, I haven't been able to play on it for two days because people keep voting it down.

[TheCharlatan]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Thing is that isn't what happens with NARCs. You get locked, and then you get DPS showered.

Also, the way focus fire and laser vomit works, yes you are essentially being hit by one giga damage weapon more often than not. And just like DoT focus fire... sucks for the one guy getting melted...why aren't the other 11 killing the guys who HAVE TO HOLD THEIR TARGET BOX ON THE NARC'D GUY IN THE INTERIM?

tell me does this poor guy know or care that he was shot by one mech, many, lasers or LRMs?

Nope.


And so far I think you are waaaay overstating the prevalence and effectiveness of NARC.

I've been using NARC+LRMs in a few mechs (or just NARC on lights). You NARC a target, he hides, and has to hide until NARC expires or an ECM mech comes to rescue him. Alternatively he gets showered in DPS.
Strongest weapon ever? Nope. But sure can force a mech to "skip a turn", and that can help your team a lot.
This is my opinion, it can be wrong, whatever, it's not my point.
My point, as i stated before, is just asking one question: how do you counter being NARCed on Hoth?
Edit: if there is no counter, i belive there is a problem. That's it.

Edited by TheCharlatan, 22 January 2016 - 09:20 AM.

[SilentWolff]

What you'll find with teams like SJR is, if they cant stack the deck in their favor to win, they cry, ***** and moan about it.
Polar Highlands doesnt allow them to just no skill deathball nascar everything down like almost every other map does, so their chances of winning is substantially less. So no surprise they have started to complain about it.

[Mister Blastman]

Skoll, on 22 January 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Wanting to win isn't bad. Wanting to compete isn't bad. Trying to force the game to your point of view is bad. That in itself shows a large measure of ego. Once again, I don't know this guy. For all I know he could be the nicest guy alive, or a major douchebag. My problem comes in when the supposed cream of the crop of internet fighting bots whines like a little ***** because wahhh my meta is upset. All he serves to do is propagate the same crap that ruined MW4 MP. Peek and poke / sniper builds are literally just another form of poptarting. The meta in this game is ******' stupid and the arrogant jackasses who perpetrate it even moreso.

I broke Mechwarrior 4 before it was released. In the Alpha test I was running a 5x and 6x erllas Madcat destroying everyone. This is not to brag. It is just to say that the problem existed before the game was released and Microsoft did NOTHING about it. I then proceeded to do the same thing in a Madcat for the year after release until I got bored.

Then I did it in a Sunder running 3x PPC + 2x Light Gauss... why? Because. It was kind of fun for a little while but I got bored of that, too. I eventually quit the game because it was trashed. Sniping ruined Mechwarrior 4 but it was due to the SAME problem that MWO and Mechwarrior 3 had...

CONVERGENCE

For some reason it is an evil word that folks don't like to discuss and developers are afraid to address. Yet, despite all this, if it were... we wouldn't need stupid stuff like ghost heat.

Mechwarrior 4 had one other BIG problem that MWO does not have... Mechwarrior 4 had an issue with firing your weapons and how they registered damage--it was something that could be abused.

In Mechwarrior 4, it only counted if something hit based on the trigger pull. So, for instance... you fire your lasers in Mechwarrior 4, if the targeting crosshair wasn't spinning red at the exact moment you pulled the trigger, you would miss. This meant that if you swept your laser over a target... and it was not red when fired, even though the laser swept over the target, no damage would register. This meant that creative ways to fire weapons such as triple stacking ultra 5s and LBX cannons let you rattle the enemy 'mech, shake their crosshair and force an overshoot there was nothing they could do about. I abused this when running non laser boats.

But the BIGGER problem with that stupid trigger pull system was you could peek just enough over a ridgeline, get a red crosshair, fire your lasers and immediately reverse back behind the hill.

That doesn't sound so bad, right? Wrong. What was bad is your lasers hit the dirt. But they'd go through the dirt... and deliver 100% damage even though they visually never hit their target... due to the red crosshair at trigger pull.

That was the biggest problem behind convergence with Mechwarrior 4. I abused the crap out of it. MWO doesn't let you do this, thankfully. But it does have convergence... and convergence breaks the game.

So once again... hate the game. Hate the bullcrap mechanics we are stuck with. That's what is wrong with all this.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 22 January 2016 - 09:22 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Widowmaker1981, on 22 January 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

There is a good reason for that, in fairness: When you get focus laservomited to death, you can self reflect and say 'that was MY fault. I crested that ridge when i shouldn't have' and knowing you could have done something differently helps. If you get an ECM light sneak up and NARC you from 600m away when you never saw them, and then get rekt by LRMs you could never see the firers of, and you never exposed yourself once.. you feel more like "wtf thats totally unfair, there was nothing i could have done differently"

Disclaimer: i LOVE the new map, and i have no problem with LRMs being actually effective on a map. I still wont bring AMS, because on 90% of maps its 100% a waste of tonnage, so ill take my knocks on Polar if i have to.

so you mean...it feels more like the "war" part of a wargame than the "game" part?

Seems about as silly as those whiny baseball whiners and their "unwritten rules".

It's a war game. The NARC itself is slow as crap, counterable, and require multiple teammates focusing on your same target to be remotely effective. Even then it's only really useful on a handful of maps, and mostly, against slow or dumb targets.

And you can't even know if you are going to get one of the few maps before you equip it. Or, unless your team brings LRMs, if there will even be anyone on your team to take advantage of it.

At that point, you still have to maneuver to 450m (600 for clan) and get a shot with a laughably slow nerf ball, that can be defeated at range by AMS.

Sorry if I feel the QQ is just a teensy bit out of proportion with the reality.

It's like the guy who brings a small laser Executioner crying because the other guy brought a GuassJager to Alpine.

[Jabilac]

Widowmaker1981, on 22 January 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

If you get an ECM light sneak up and NARC you from 600m away when you never saw them, and then get rekt by LRMs you could never see the firers of, and you never exposed yourself once.. you feel more like "wtf thats totally unfair, there was nothing i could have done differently"

That ECM light mech with NARC has already dedicated a minimum of 4 tons (IS) or 3 tons (CL) to bring a weapon system that doesn't itself cause damage (Roughly 10% of their available tonnage). Then they were able to encircle your entire team and position themselves in a way to hit you with a slow moving narc beacon (500 Velocity). Then hope the rest of their team brought enough LRM's for that NARC to actually matter.

[Bishop Steiner]

cSand, on 22 January 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

lol the lord of the meta can't laserboat-peek his way utta this paper bag
META FO LIFE

3 LPL ON A QKD

lol

the internet is full of clowns, myself included

is that waht the C stands for.... clownSand......

Jabilac, on 22 January 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

That ECM light mech with NARC has already dedicated a minimum of 4 tons (IS) or 3 tons (CL) to bring a weapon system that doesn't itself cause damage (Roughly 10% of their available tonnage). Then they were able to encircle your entire team and position themselves in a way to hit you with a slow moving narc beacon (500 Velocity). Then hope the rest of their team brought enough LRM's for that NARC to actually matter.

also, the life of a NARCNinja ain't easy. Not too many mechs have NARC, ECM huge speed and a lot of self defense firepower.

That NARC Raven on the opfor should have been ripped apart by tour teams inevitable SLP ACH the moment he showed up. If you can't counter it... that's your own dang fault.

TheCharlatan, on 22 January 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

I've been using NARC+LRMs in a few mechs (or just NARC on lights). You NARC a target, he hides, and has to hide until NARC expires or an ECM mech comes to rescue him. Alternatively he gets showered in DPS.
Strongest weapon ever? Nope. But sure can force a mech to "skip a turn", and that can help your team a lot.
This is my opinion, it can be wrong, whatever, it's not my point.
My point, as i stated before, is just asking one question: how do you counter being NARCed on Hoth?
Edit: if there is no counter, i belive there is a problem. That's it.

and the thing is..there are counters...in equipment and in tactics.