284 replies to this topic

[butchly13]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Why does everyone say equip AMS? Yeah, 1 AMS on my mech is going to make the 80+ incoming LRMs go away.

"If your whole team does it it makes a difference"

Right, and we can enforce that one our whole team right?

Your LRM counter doesn't make sense. A light can close to 450m undetected easily, then what you say? Run away?

I read around here somewhere that AMS shoots NARCs. If so, AMS could keep you from getting NARC'd which keeps you relatively safe from LRMs on this map. It's not hard to dodge the LRMs on Polar if you're not NARC'd. Sure, not everyone's gonna bring it. But you can protect yourself if you actually feel threatened by LRMs.


With regard to Salty McSalterson (GMan):

Quote

In fact, my only complains in terms of visuals are that it feels a little too frozen desert-y with not enough texture (which is something that I feel the meteors could help with) and the source-less glow at night-time (but I can't think of an easy solution and I'd rather have a source-less glow than a lack of light).

Has he ever seen a picture of a polar landscape? Not a whole lot of cover going on there, weather, building, environmental, or otherwise... As far as the source-less glow at night, I haven't played at night yet, but a full moon on a snow covered landscape sure lights up the world. Maybe PGI forgot to put a moon in their skybox but hell, stop being so salty about a map that's different than all the others.

Edited by butchly13, 22 January 2016 - 08:08 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Well, the concealment doesn't work when you are NARCed or UAV. And usually no, my unit doesn't use LRMs very often. A couple of them do but get crap for it. I do once in a while if I am feeling sadistic.

Your Unit..so now we are talking Group Queue again..where you have full control of your units loadout? And no AMS? No ECM? No Radar Derp?

C'mon man, what up wit dat?

[Gas Guzzler]

By the same token, people getting ***** by laser vomit boils down to a PUGlife issue as well, keep that in mind.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

Bishop, what the **** is the matter with you?

All I did in this thread is point out that being NARCed sucks, and everyone is reading into that statement as "omg its so OP". Get a grip and stop projecting. I didn't even say it happens very often to me.

And I don't consider laser vomit unbeatable, though I understand why you would.

I actually don't, but that the QQ cry about it. Kind of like the crying that OMG, NARC is useful here (and it sucks to be the guy that gets hit by it...which is sort of the point)

[Bilbo]

butchly13, on 22 January 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

I read around here somewhere that AMS shoots NARCs. If so, AMS could keep you from getting NARC'd which keeps you relatively safe from LRMs on this map. It's not hard to dodge the LRMs on Polar if you're not NARC'd.
...

Yes there is a chance that AMS will shoot down narcs. I would not rely on it though. I've been narced through ams on multiple occasions.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

Your Unit..so now we are talking Group Queue again..where you have full control of your units loadout? And no AMS? No ECM? No Radar Derp?

C'mon man, what up wit dat?

*shrugs*

Comes back to my simple statement of "Getting NARCed sucks".

In the group queue we do have ECM typically. But if people are all leveling Warhammers, there is no ECM option there. lol.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 January 2016 - 08:11 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

By the same token, people getting ***** by laser vomit boils down to a PUGlife issue as well, keep that in mind.

exactly.... except that NARC/LRM is not overwhelming and "the one true way" on EVERY. SINGLE. MAP. AND: GAMEMODE.

Oh dear god, NARC got me killed one time in 20 on one map....

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 January 2016 - 08:13 AM.

[Pika]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

*shrugs*

Comes back to my simple statement of "Getting NARCed sucks".

In the group queue we do have ECM typically. But if people are all leveling Warhammers, there is no ECM option there. lol.

It does. But a NARC does absolutely no damage to you. Nothing. Nill. Nada. Squat. Silch. Etc.

It does light you up for another 'Mech on their team to rain hell down on your wee little bonnet and lights you up on the map\radar. That's called teamwork. The 'Mech is giving up weapons to support his team and is TOTALLY dependant on another 'Mech having LRMs... which ain't so hot.

Yeah getting NARCed sucks, sucks a LOT. But I would never, ever cry about it and ask for anything to change there. Teamwork should _ALWAYS_ be encouraged.

Edited by Pika, 22 January 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Khereg]

ZenFool, on 22 January 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

I do feel badly for assault mechs on this map, as its that much harder for them to get into position and, in pugland, people run away from them even more than normal.

Don't feel too bad for them. If they have decent range, they can do just fine. Dropped the 5 UAC5 dakkawolf 4 or 5 times on Polar so far and have yet to turn in a sub-700 dmg performance.

Granted, so far I've been lucky my team hasn't totally abandoned me (although close call in a match last night), but I think this map does a good job teaching people the importance of maneuvering. I like it, personally.

Agree the conquest points are a little too spread when you consider there are legit builds out there that can't top 55 kph.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

*shrugs*

Comes back to my simple statement of "Getting NARCed sucks".

In the group queue we do have ECM typically. But if people are all leveling Warhammers, there is no ECM option there. lol.

but there is an AMS option. Over 200 meters away, AMS also shoots down NARC pretty reliably. And 4 mechs with AMS in a cluster? Can make a dent on LRMs, too.

Pika, on 22 January 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

It does. But a NARC does absolutely no damage to you. Nothing. Nill. Nada. Squat. Silch. Etc.

It does light you up for another 'Mech on their team to rain hell down on your wee little bonnet and lights you up on the map\radar. That's called teamwork. The 'Mech is giving up weapons to support his team and is TOTALLY dependant on another 'Mech having LRMs... which ain't so hot.

Yeah getting NARCed sucks, sucks a LOT. But I would never, ever cry about it and ask for anything to change there. Teamwork should _ALWAYS_ be encouraged.

especially sense for how long was NARC utterly useless? Now it's situationally useful. At near pointblank, with a projectile speed that makes ac20s sort of laugh kind of way.

[Mawai]

Brizna, on 22 January 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

I found his opinion very insightful and I wholeheartedly agree, the map is not beyond hope, it actually has great potential but it needs a few fixes, hard cover being the most pressing concern, not in abundance to not change the spirit of the map, but some of it.

Also as he says, conquest is ludicrous in this map and the cap points need to get closer, maybe a 1-3-1 split, so that 3 cap points are relatively close to each other so the main confrontation happens there while 2 (the initial ones) are far so that there is also the dilemma about to cap or not to cap.

I think the point of the spaced cap points is so that there ISN'T one location where the fight happens. Almost every other map devolves into a battle around a central building or geographic structure. Sometimes folks do something different and it is refreshing.

If they put three caps in the middle then that is where the fight will be. Whoever finds the most cover in the middle wins and it will quickly get boring.

I think the problem is that most players are used to skirmish/conquest where most conquest matches are decided by wiping out the other team ... which is encouraged by closely spaced cap points like on Alpine. With distributed cap points you have to really consider whether to split the death ball to get caps or not. Lights really do need to scout and cap. It is just a different form of game play.

The biggest problem with a large map and distributed cap points is that no one would really send assaults on a mission like that ... they are too slow, the area too large and the objectives too distributed. So the folks who drop in assaults and slow heavies have significant issues with it since their goal is really to find and engage the bulk of the enemy forces but that requires cooperation with their team mates who scout.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pika, on 22 January 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Yeah getting NARCed sucks, sucks a LOT.

Thanks for agreeing.

[Lord Perversor]

Khereg, on 22 January 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

Don't feel too bad for them. If they have decent range, they can do just fine. Dropped the 5 UAC5 dakkawolf 4 or 5 times on Polar so far and have yet to turn in a sub-700 dmg performance.

Granted, so far I've been lucky my team hasn't totally abandoned me (although close call in a match last night), but I think this map does a good job teaching people the importance of maneuvering. I like it, personally.

Agree the conquest points are a little too spread when you consider there are legit builds out there that can't top 55 kph.

Everytime i play on Polar i feel maneuvering and be capable to self defense when caught alone are totally gamechanging things here.

Size stop Deathballs from catching you alone with 6-12 mechs firing at once, and crevices and trenchs allow for quickly fall back moves diminishing fire allowing you to stay alive just longer in order to allow your team to provide a response to the enemy.

Also i been dodging in and out of LRMs quite easily i feel most of ppl complain about not being cover enough is due need to hug an umbrella terrain and peekaboo shooting back at the enemy instead seeking actual cover out of sight.

[Bud Crue]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

What do they say when a bad chassis like the Quickdraw gets overquirked? "Let it have it's time in the sun, dude"?

Above, All the reason I need to hate the meta and those that insist it is the only way to play...and the self loathing it inspires.

The Quickdraw. Look what they have done to my beloved Quickdraw.
First mech I bought and still my favorite going back to my TT days.
In MWO I had 11 of them built before I knew of metamechs (I'm up to 13 now).

None of my builds ran the supposedly "meta" 3LPL build that Gman endorses. When I was told of it I had to give it a go. It is imho a spectacularly effective build. But It is not a Quickdraw. It is a very effective abomination that I feel forced to run (in CW) when I need a fast heavy at the 60 ton mark, and I hate myself for loving it.

Thank you metamechs for the build. Oh how I loathe you for your truth.

[Khereg]

Lord Perversor, on 22 January 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

Everytime i play on Polar i feel maneuvering and be capable to self defense when caught alone are totally gamechanging things here.

I agree. The other maps we have, even the bigger ones, have features that draw the groups to a limited number of likely engagement areas. Polar is so large, and the available terrain similar enough across the majority of the map, there's no "obvious" engagement spot. That might change over time as we get more familiar with it, but I can see that there will always be options.

I would imagine that in group queue, especially, teams will have a number of strategies available to change up the flow of a match. I think this is a good thing and is new and different in terms of MWO maps.

Your build really matters here. in addition to the dakka wolf I mentioned, I've also brought out the ERLL ECM Raven and the SPL Stormcrow just to see how a variety of mech strategies played out.

The SPL-crow is very challenging to pull off on Polar, but even in that I haven't found it terribly difficult to close range under cover and have enough zip to get away if I see a group bearing down. That very specialized ambush style has a place even on such a wide-open map. If you can make a sub-250 m build work on Polar, you can make anything work there, IMHO. It takes some innovative thinking, though. Innovative relative to the approaches that work on other maps, I mean.

Edited by Khereg, 22 January 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

Thanks for agreeing.

know what else sucks a lot? Getting shot.

Focus fired.
Wolfpacked by Lights in an Assault.


etc. Suck happens. Are you saying this particular breed of rare suck needs ot be singled out for some odd reason?

[CygnusX7]

In a real war would you have a choice in how the terrain is shaped to increase your chances of survival and better with engagement the enemy?
Other than choosing a landing zone.. No.

You have to find cover... but to whine about design and layout of a map is fairly self centered way of going about this.

Edited by CygnusX7, 22 January 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khereg, on 22 January 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

I agree. The other maps we have, even the bigger ones, have features that draw the groups to a limited number of likely engagement areas. Polar is so large, and the available terrain similar enough across the majority of the map, there's no "obvious" engagement spot. That might change over time as we get more familiar with it, but I can see that there will always be options.

I would imagine that in group queue, especially, teams will have a number of strategies available to change up the flow of a match. I think this is a good thing and is new and different in terms of MWO maps.

Your build really matters here. in addition to the dakka wolf I mentioned, I've also brought out the ERLL ECM Raven and the SPL Stormcrow just to see how a variety of mech strategies played out.

The SPL-crow is very challenging to pull off on Polar, but even in that I haven't found it terribly difficult to close range under cover and have enough zip to get away if I see a group bearing down. That very specialized ambush style has a place even on such a wide-open map. If you can make a sub-250 m build work on Polar, you can make anything work there, IMHO. It takes some innovative thinking, though. Innovative relative to the approaches that work on other maps, I mean.

I'm actually glad to see a map that punished people for boating sub 200 meter weapons on slower Mechs.

The simple fact that boating small lasers is considered effective and desired meta on bloody heavy and assault mechs is ridiculous in the first place.

Fast Mediums, well, I see a place, though a good build shoudl IMOP still have some ability to fight at range (I like a single ERSL stinkfist on a SCR, and the rest missiles, ballistics, or LPL, etc)

But as you say, even then it's not undoable..just take more effort and patience.

[Barantor]

Some folks want all the maps to be like a paintball field, I want it to be like a natural environment (or alien, space etc).

Some folks look at the lasers, ballistics and missiles as the 'weapon', I look at the mech as the weapon.

Some folks only want to play a precision game akin to Tribes, I want to blast things to bits more like World of Battleships.

Some folks view the battletechs only for their hardpoints, I view them for their game lore and feel.


Different strokes for different folks, I hope we get Solaris too eventually so that everyone can enjoy all of what MWO is trying to do.

That said, I think this new map is one of their best and allows for new and interesting movement tactics that don't rely on artificial feeling cliffs and corners. I can understand the dislike for some who are more used to the lanes and cover that are the hallway maps of CW, but this is a map for those like me, not those that like those other things. I do want urban maps that are full cities, but as far as a rolling field of battle, this one is friggin awesome.

[Mystere]

Brizna, on 22 January 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

I found his opinion very insightful and I wholeheartedly agree, the map is not beyond hope, it actually has great potential but it needs a few fixes, hard cover being the most pressing concern, not in abundance to not change the spirit of the map, but some of it.

Also as he says, conquest is ludicrous in this map and the cap points need to get closer, maybe a 1-3-1 split, so that 3 cap points are relatively close to each other so the main confrontation happens there while 2 (the initial ones) are far so that there is also the dilemma about to cap or not to cap.

It's one map out of several that has less hard cover than normal and where the conquest cap points are farther. I call that variety. What's the point of building more maps if people just want them to all be functionally the same? <vsmh>

<vsmh = vigorously shaking my head>

Mister Blastman, on 22 January 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

Don't hate the player, hate the game, man.

I am not saying this is the case here, but for a while now I have been thinking it's really the mass numbers of one-dimensional thinkers plaguing this game that are to blame.

Edited by Mystere, 22 January 2016 - 08:43 AM.