284 replies to this topic

[Vaegir Raiden]

People JUST RUN all over the map....

Learn to make yourself to break line of sight.....

TOO MANY players dont know how to use the map!! It HAS enough cover.

Most fo the time when you get LRMed rained on you are simply spotted by one light or multiple mechs

Break the line of sight and the LRM will stop.... Except for NARC..

Edited by Vaegir Raiden, 22 January 2016 - 07:21 AM.

[Skoll]

Mister Blastman, on 22 January 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

Relaxation and meditation are great. However, MWO doesn't allow for that. When I need to relax, I head off into the black for conquest...



Otherwise I'm in a robot smashing people.

What I find hilarious is the attacks towards "comp" players. Myself, for instance, I'm not part of a Clan or team and haven't been for over a year. I PUG only. But you'd be wrong to assume that because I'm PUG only I don't care about winning. I do care! I care a lot! I hate losing. I continually strive to push myself to do better--to iron out my weaknesses and hone my abilities as a Mechwarrior.

I also don't play this game nonstop.

But make no mistake, I don't look down upon those who are members of units who do strive to win leagues. I used to be one of them--who knows, maybe someday I will again when my family's medical issues sort themselves out and I get published. In the meantime, I'll continue to try as hard as I can in PUG games to win every single drop.

Gman was just expressing his opinion. He happens to be a really good player, too. He's probably better than most. But what I read from his post did not seem like, "Hey! I'm high and mighty! I'm better than you, plebs! Sit down, peasants and listen to what your Lord has to say!"

No, what I read was quite reasonable.

So before this thread becomes some "Comp players are Ev1l d3v1lz!!!!!!111111111" sit back and look in a mirror. Perhaps the haters need to realize they're being more unreasonable than those they hate.

Besides, in the end, is trying to win such a bad thing? The whole team benefits by winning. Everyone makes more c-bills, they get more xp and they don't get to stare at some nasty death screen with John T. Baggins standing over your 'mech making nasty moves.

Wanting to win isn't bad. Wanting to compete isn't bad. Trying to force the game to your point of view is bad. That in itself shows a large measure of ego. Once again, I don't know this guy. For all I know he could be the nicest guy alive, or a major douchebag. My problem comes in when the supposed cream of the crop of internet fighting bots whines like a little ***** because wahhh my meta is upset. All he serves to do is propagate the same crap that ruined MW4 MP. Peek and poke / sniper builds are literally just another form of poptarting. The meta in this game is ******' stupid and the arrogant jackasses who perpetrate it even moreso.

[CDLord HHGD]

Skoll, on 22 January 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Wanting to win isn't bad. Wanting to compete isn't bad. Trying to force the game to your point of view is bad. That in itself shows a large measure of ego. Once again, I don't know this guy. For all I know he could be the nicest guy alive, or a major douchebag. My problem comes in when the supposed cream of the crop of internet fighting bots whines like a little ***** because wahhh my meta is upset. All he serves to do is propagate the same crap that ruined MW4 MP. Peek and poke / sniper builds are literally just another form of poptarting. The meta in this game is ******' stupid and the arrogant jackasses who perpetrate it even moreso.

Well said!

[Gas Guzzler]

Parnage, on 22 January 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

3. LRM cover exists. Stop letting spotters hang out behind you. If you find yourself on a low hill, you are in bad spot most of the time. Trenches and gullies solve all of your issues and I've had no issues moving around while missiles rain down on the more.. bold members of teams. Lasers are fine, exposing yourself on this map can be quite punishing, brawling is possible just harder to do and not something you can do by simply charging at them using cover to cover, you genuinely need to loop around hitting from the side.

Conversely, Radar deprivation or ECM solves most problems.

Well his point was that those trenches an gullies typically don't actually block the LRMs themselves, they just block LoS. So if you were to get NARCed, as it is easy to NARC someone if you are running around in a light mech, you are SOL unless someone one your PUG team happens to have ECM and isn't 500 meters away chasing a squirrel. If there are couple LRM boats on the other team you are basically dead, which is kind of a drag and a waste of time. You can't say that moving with your team and getting picked by a light to get NARCed is actually a tactical error on your part, it's bad luck more than anything else.

Also relying on PUGs to shoot down UAVs in a timely manner is a tall order.

It is what it is, but I understand the frustration of havine your match ended prematurely because you got NARCed moving between two areas of hard LRM coverage.

[Vaegir Raiden]

Quote

All he serves to do is propagate the same crap that ruined MW4 MP. Peek and poke / sniper builds are literally just another form of poptarting. The meta in this game is ******' stupid and the arrogant jackasses who perpetrate it even moreso.

YEP...I agree

[sycocys]

Bilbo, on 22 January 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

Don't know about CW but, according to Paul, comp players are getting a first look at the 1v1, 2v2, and 4v4 maps in order to get their input before they go to art.

Fantastic, every map will look like Stonehenge.....

[Vaegir Raiden]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Well his point was that those trenches an gullies typically don't actually block the LRMs themselves, they just block LoS. So if you were to get NARCed, as it is easy to NARC someone if you are running around in a light mech, you are SOL unless someone one your PUG team happens to have ECM and isn't 500 meters away chasing a squirrel. If there are couple LRM boats on the other team you are basically dead, which is kind of a drag and a waste of time. You can't say that moving with your team and getting picked by a light to get NARCed is actually a tactical error on your part, it's bad luck more than anything else.

Also relying on PUGs to shoot down UAVs in a timely manner is a tall order.

It is what it is, but I understand the frustration of havine your match ended prematurely because you got NARCed moving between two areas of hard LRM coverage.

Then simply TAKE OUT the NARC it has 450 metres...people need to supress the NARC giving mech then
But this game has NO TEAMWORK so i suppose LOS is the only option

[Bishop Steiner]

Bud Crue, on 22 January 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

The problem, as I see it, is that they may represent a mere 1% of the player base, they are the most vocal and for whatever reason have the most influence on Devs. I mean in the case of MWO didn't (doesn't) PGI have a goal of making this an E-sport? Have they not dipped their toes into comp league play? They are not doing these things for no reason. They are doing it because those 1%-ers are who they listen too, for good or ill.

along with the myth of "balance for the leet, the rest will follow", lol. Most of the leets wouldn't know balance if it stepped on their epeen, either.

Pika, on 22 January 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Had a game today where our assaults fell behind. I opened chat and typed in "Wait for the assaults, guys." and everyone went to the installation in the left H line near the clearing. We regrouped, they took the lead and we moved out. IA little communication goes a long way~ People actually do want their assaults with them

Every match where people have used maneuvering, and kept mostly to the trenches, have been good drawn out, matches, that could swing either way on one bad maneuver.

Have had a lot of fun setting ambushes and defensive firing lines, etc.

The biggest issue our dear comp overlords are probably facing? It's hard to focus fire on this map, unless people are stupid and skyline themselves. Focus fire seems to favor the defender on this map. So apparently antithesis to the comp mindset where you know, a well positioned defender is SUPPOSED to have the advantage.

Win or lose, seldom have encountered "stomps", even if the final score is 12-4, or so, because it usually takes time to happen and almost everyone is jacked at the end. I say seldom, because I also have seen idiots try to nascar or who just want to park and peek.... and they still lose miserably.

[Vaegir Raiden]

Bilbo, on 22 January 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

Don't know about CW but, according to Paul, comp players are getting a first look at the 1v1, 2v2, and 4v4 maps in order to get their input before they go to art.

The worst thing PGI can do is LISTENING to COMP players..very little do have understanding of the game...

[Bishop Steiner]

Vaegir Raiden, on 22 January 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

People JUST RUN all over the map....

Learn to make yourself to break line of sight.....

TOO MANY players dont know how to use the map!! It HAS enough cover.

Most fo the time when you get LRMed rained on you are simply spotted by one light or multiple mechs

Break the line of sight and the LRM will stop.... Except for NARC..

And...ecm, AMS will largely fix that, too.

Radar Derp has a use again! OHMAHGERD!!!!!

Vaegir Raiden, on 22 January 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

The worst thing PGI can do is LISTENING to COMP players..very little do have understanding of the game...

Comp has traditionally led to the antithesis of variety......

A shame they can't just IDK..hire a Military Vet with mission planning experience to consult instead, instead of a bunch of epeeners?

[Skoll]

Bud Crue, on 22 January 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

The problem, as I see it, is that they may represent a mere 1% of the player base, they are the most vocal and for whatever reason have the most influence on Devs. I mean in the case of MWO didn't (doesn't) PGI have a goal of making this an E-sport? Have they not dipped their toes into comp league play? They are not doing these things for no reason. They are doing it because those 1%-ers are who they listen too, for good or ill.

It's because after three years, PGI still thinks this might turn into some kind of esports game. It won't. They'll try to force it though by listening to the people who are the most detrimental to gameplay at large. I.e. sub 10% of the player population, I don't care how "good", should not be making policy for the other 90%. It's awesome that you're so good in specialized builds and conditions, but that's literally it. You play a specialized role in a specialized style for your specialized arena play. The rest of us don't.

[TexAce]

Conquest on Polar Highlands does not show how bad the map is (hint: it isnt) but only how bad of a gamemode conquest is, always was and always will be if they dont change it fundamentaly.

[MechPorn]

I feel as thought the map is very balanced and allows for different dynamic play that the community is not entirely use to. Yes, there is hill humping extreme (and it does support high mounted weapons), but it also supports those low mounted lasers as well with corners (lots and lots of corners).

This map, unlike most of the other maps (if not all), actually allows role warfare and different game play. There is no central hub for either side to fight over with no distinct advantage to getting to A or B first.

As for more cover, there is plenty of cover in the map, even if you are NARCed. They are more sparse than the other maps and these locales need to be coveted by each team when deploying, if they are concerned about LURMs...and with the comp players stating that LRMs are the worse, most useless weapon in the game...I doubt that it is even considered or looked at.

Overall, I think it is one of the best maps in the game. Its diversity in play style and potential tactics cause variety in play style more so than the other maps.

[Chagatay]

This map is awesome. Everything you want in a map similar to Tourmaline (but better):

Long Range
Medium Range
Short Range
Scouting
Ambushing
Caps that matter (Ignore points and you will LOSE)
Good, Bad, and Ugly Positions (Center is a murderzone)
Easy Movement (no jagged things to get caught on everywhere)
More tactics possible very easy to perform pincers and other stuff (defeat in detail etc).
Lights MVP (you lose your scouts early, you are going to have a bad day)

What is not to love...just need more maps like this.

Edited by Chagatay, 22 January 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Well his point was that those trenches an gullies typically don't actually block the LRMs themselves, they just block LoS. So if you were to get NARCed, as it is easy to NARC someone if you are running around in a light mech, you are SOL unless someone one your PUG team happens to have ECM and isn't 500 meters away chasing a squirrel. If there are couple LRM boats on the other team you are basically dead, which is kind of a drag and a waste of time. You can't say that moving with your team and getting picked by a light to get NARCed is actually a tactical error on your part, it's bad luck more than anything else.

Also relying on PUGs to shoot down UAVs in a timely manner is a tall order.

It is what it is, but I understand the frustration of havine your match ended prematurely because you got NARCed moving between two areas of hard LRM coverage.

Yes, terrible that NARC and LRMs can finally be useful again... and doubly so because with semi-random map choices made AFTER mech selection.... people who load up with LRMs and MARCs for Polar get them and their team screwed on 75% of the other maps.

Most of the complaints boil down to coordination issues. Well, that and some Comps probably not wanting to use tonnage on AMS, etc.

Oddly, I have not used Radar Derp, ECM or AMS on the map yet. Have died to LRMs once, and being seriously bugged by LRms only a few times....and that's been while driving a slow warhammer.

I think it has more to do with Mighty Comp MetaMechs being killed by no skill, not comp approved noob tier weapons that has panties in a bunch than anything.

Too which I say.... hey they are comp..the great adapters... adapt, evolve and survive, bros!

[4rcs1ne]

Pika, on 22 January 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Had a game today where our assaults fell behind. I opened chat and typed in "Wait for the assaults, guys." and everyone went to the installation in the right H line near the clearing. We regrouped, they took the lead and we moved out. A little communication goes a long way~ People actually do want their assaults with them

Yeah, I had a match where the enemy team had numerous lrm boats. We were down 0-2 right at the beginning. I then typed in chat that we needed to close the gap between us and the enemy as quickly as possible. Needless to say, we scored 12 unanswered kills to rout the enemy 12-2.

This is exactly what I love about this map. Teamwork and communication are greatly rewarded while stagnation is penalized.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

So to recap his post:

1) He's mad lights / mediums / fast heavies can't instantly rear molest the enemy team's assaults.... which actually gives them a chance to fight back.

2) He's mad the caps are spread out, which makes speed important for more than simply ignoring enemy fire. Now the fast mechs actually have to focus on capping if they intended to win that way.

3) He's mad there is a map that favors long range weapons, rather than offering insane amounts of cover every 50 meters like every other map.

Sounds like someone complaining about getting what the community asked for.

Maybe he should.... I don't know..... adapt or leave? Isn't that what the cools guys tell people when they express an opinion they disagree with?

Am I cool yet?

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

I think it has more to do with Mighty Comp MetaMechs being killed by no skill, not comp approved noob tier weapons that has panties in a bunch than anything.

^^ This right here.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 22 January 2016 - 07:41 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MechPorn, on 22 January 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

I feel as thought the map is very balanced and allows for different dynamic play that the community is not entirely use to. Yes, there is hill humping extreme (and it does support high mounted weapons), but it also supports those low mounted lasers as well with corners (lots and lots of corners).

This map, unlike most of the other maps (if not all), actually allows role warfare and different game play. There is no central hub for either side to fight over with no distinct advantage to getting to A or B first.

As for more cover, there is plenty of cover in the map, even if you are NARCed. They are more sparse than the other maps and these locales need to be coveted by each team when deploying, if they are concerned about LURMs...and with the comp players stating that LRMs are the worse, most useless weapon in the game...I doubt that it is even considered or looked at.

Overall, I think it is one of the best maps in the game. Its diversity in play style and potential tactics cause variety in play style more so than the other maps.

what's great is how much thought you have to make in positioning..because the LoS are nowhere near as 2 dimensional as they are on most maps.... it's so easy to think you have a great flank position...and find yourself getting flanked because those rolling plains are so deceptive and someone else has used a dip or valley to get LoS on you.

It's why the best matches on it seem to be with both units doing a lot of maneuvering. I laugh when they derisively call it nascaring...when nascaring is called what it is because the terrain forces you to run in circles around a single terrain feature...something notably lacking here. Being forced to stay mobile is not NASCAR, and it's not a bad thing.

And the people who are saying it needs more fixed cover...are just asking for it to become a fixed geography nascar point where everyone is going to just end up stationary peektarting around whatever notable geography piece they find.

[kapusta11]

Skoll, on 22 January 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Wanting to win isn't bad. Wanting to compete isn't bad. Trying to force the game to your point of view is bad. That in itself shows a large measure of ego. Once again, I don't know this guy. For all I know he could be the nicest guy alive, or a major douchebag. My problem comes in when the supposed cream of the crop of internet fighting bots whines like a little ***** because wahhh my meta is upset. All he serves to do is propagate the same crap that ruined MW4 MP. Peek and poke / sniper builds are literally just another form of poptarting. The meta in this game is ******' stupid and the arrogant jackasses who perpetrate it even moreso.

As if BT "fans" aren't trying to do the same.

[Vaegir Raiden]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

I think it has more to do with Mighty Comp MetaMechs being killed by no skill, not comp approved noob tier weapons that has panties in a bunch than anything.

Too which I say.... hey they are comp..the great adapters... adapt, evolve and survive, bros!

SO GOOD

Edited by Vaegir Raiden, 22 January 2016 - 07:44 AM.