43 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Removing indirect fire means removing the entire LRM weapon systems from the game.... so no.

AMS should give rewards for shooting down missiles not aimed at you.

LRMs in general are weak.... and specifically, large LRM racks such as 20 needs some serious spread reduction to make it go from utter crap to less useless.

[Trauglodyte]

Quote

LRM's are only useful in very narrow situations such as when the opposing team is lacking ECM, no AMS, not running radar depravation and is primarily made up of brawlers, there is long exposed areas with little to no cover AND you have at least 3 dedicated LRM mechs. In that scenario they can get kills almost on par with teams using snipers and brawlers. Otherwise, LRM's are absolutely terrible, they are for padding your score and that's about it.

This is true but there is value, if you have the hard points, to taking 2x LRM5s or a single LRM10. It isn't a primary weapon which is why boats are so ridiculous. BUT, it makes for a good approach weapon if you have a team worth a damn. And, given the meta of laser spamming stupidity, it precludes the need for AMS or even ECM, hence giving you the benefit of carrying it.

[Andi Nagasia]

Nightmare1, on 23 January 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

How 'bout we don't touch LRMs and all agree that they're at a good spot, yes?

Got a couple dedicated LRM'ers in our Unit right now that're doing just fine. Some of us took our LRM boats out recently, after seeing their success, and were surprised at how much easier it is not to have LRM games. ECM isn't as thick as it used to be, it seems, and I was seeing some impressive scores. I really don't think that we need to buff LRMs any.

Or are you suggesting all three of those bullet points as changes that would be made together and not independently of each other? 'Cause I get the feeling that number 1 is independent of 2, but that 2 and 3 are dependent on each other.

That being said, if 1) were implemented, then I could agree to 2) and 3). However, how would you solve the issue of UAVs? Those are an LRM'ers best friend right now.

But LRMs really arnt in a Good Spot, they have Too Many Counters and not Enough Benefits,
whats the Purpose of 1000m Range if using them over 400-500m is just wasting ammo

with the New Map Ya LRMs Rock, but in most Maps with Better Cover its not,
Most People Know to Just Run for Cover Once Betty Starts yelling her Warning,

I was Suggesting all, but i can Understand the Confusion,
ive Rewrote the Topic for Clarity, removed (1),

stocky0904, on 23 January 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

The daily "nerfe lrms' thread. Lol

Lrms are good as they are. remove the indirect fire and you will remove a whole weapon systeme from this game.

Actually no, Sorry it Apeared like that, ive Since Rewritten the Topic,

i want to Buff LRM Speed, but to Counter Buff AMS Range,
so LRMs will be better as compared to other Weapons,
But their Counter is also better in Comparison,
Getting Players to take More of both,

MerryIguana, on 23 January 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

This was done before. It didnt end well.

Which is why im also Doubling the AMS Range,
so the Counter is better Against the Better LRMs,

Navid A1, on 23 January 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Removing indirect fire means removing the entire LRM weapon systems from the game.... so no.

AMS should give rewards for shooting down missiles not aimed at you.

LRMs in general are weak.... and specifically, large LRM racks such as 20 needs some serious spread reduction to make it go from utter crap to less useless.

Sorry i Love LRMs, Since Rewrote Topic,
Trying to Give LRMs and AMS both a Good Boost,
so People have Reason to take one or both,

[Simbacca]

While I run AMS on all my IS mechs (save for the Spider-5D, Raven-3L, and Cicada-3M) and where possible on Clan mechs (omnipod dependent), and have noticed a group of 4 AMS in close proximity to each other can significant ****** LRM attacks while 6 generally can defeat pretty much anything. The easiest solution (for PGI) is that players receive additional C-Bills (say 10,000) by mounting that kit. To prevent gaming the system - the AMS must have at least 1/2 ton of ammo.


Also instead of increasing AMS range - perhaps slightly increase its accuracy against LRMs.

Edited by Simbacca, 23 January 2016 - 06:31 PM.

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 January 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

=So Should PGI=
Double LRM Velocity(160 up to 320, for Better LRM Reliability),
Double AMS Range(to Compensate for New LRM Velocity),

I think these Changes would make LRMs better as weapons,
without making them Too Powerful as per New AMS Range,
Making LRMs better but also Making their Counter Better,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Rewrite,

Just want to tell you that AMS also shoots down SRMS, SSRMs and more importantly, NARC beacon. Doubled AMS range will also affect those--NARC beacon in particular will be very easy to shoot down, possibly to the point of not worth carrying.

LRMs should globally receive velocity boost and then remove velocity quirks--heck most LRM mechs now have 10% velocity quirks by default.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 January 2016 - 06:36 PM.

[p4r4g0n]

Just an FYI but in testing, AMS does absolutely nothing against NARC when your ping is above 250ms even with AMS overload.

Note that the test was with me facing the Narcer who was 450m away with no other incoming fire and carried out in a private match.

[Nightmare1]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 January 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

But LRMs really arnt in a Good Spot, they have Too Many Counters and not Enough Benefits,
whats the Purpose of 1000m Range if using them over 400-500m is just wasting ammo

with the New Map Ya LRMs Rock, but in most Maps with Better Cover its not,
Most People Know to Just Run for Cover Once Betty Starts yelling her Warning,

I was Suggesting all, but i can Understand the Confusion,
ive Rewrote the Topic for Clarity, removed (1),

Well, it doesn't matter how you buff LRMs, 1,000 meters will always be too long a range to fire. Enemy targets will always get into cover too quickly. The only way to fix this is to buff the LRM speed back to Ludicrous Speed like PGI did, briefly, back in the Spring of 2014. That completely broke LRMs though, because if you were within 800 meters of the launcher, then you didn't have a prayer. AMS was useless; the missiles moved too fast for it to effectively counter them. Within 600 meters, they were striking you before your "Incoming Missile" warning even sounded. I stopped playing for a week until PGI fixed that awful mistake.

Think of it this way. LRMs don't have a double range like ballistics or beams. The 1,000 meters is more like a double range for them. They are very effective between 400 and 700 meters. They can deal damage out to 1,000 meters, but it's not recommended that you shoot them that far. Similarly, a Medium Laser may deal full damage at 300 meters and have an overall range of 600. It's not generally recommended that you fire past 450 or 500 though, because of the diminishing returns (heat versus damage). It's the same for LRMs, really.

Don't know about the new map; still haven't dropped on it. Everyone keeps voting for Tourmaline and HPG.

Removing #1 makes the rest very unattractive. PGI tried buffing speed for LRMs and it broke the game worse than nearly any other "fix" they've tried. Nobody wants to relive that. LRMs are a team weapon, so if you're just a pugger, then expect to get owned. Join a Unit and work with your team.

Personally speaking, my Unit buddies and I are doing very well with LRMs right now. We have one or two dedicated LRM pilots who shell the snot out of everything that moves and are consistently breaking 700 damage each game. I really think this is more you than it is the weapon system, no offense intended.

[Andi Nagasia]

El Bandito, on 23 January 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

Just want to tell you that AMS also shoots down SRMS, SSRMs and more importantly, NARC beacon. Doubled AMS range will also affect those--NARC beacon in particular will be very easy to shoot down, possibly to the point of not worth carrying.

Very True no so much with SRM/SSRMS because of their Speed,
But NARC getting More Health would Defiantly FIx that Problem,

@Nightmare1
which is why i suggested Double LRM-Speed and AMS-Range, to Balance the Extra Speed out

[Wolfways]

Remove "incoming missiles" message. LRM's now more viable at any range.

And fix ECM.

[LordNothing]

its almost 3054. implement lams and call it a day (clan should have it already).

[Johnny Z]

The game is very well balanced except for one or two issues. Lrm's have been balanced by not being used by anyone except Clan mechs. Even then they are not OP just half weight for clan mechs....

Great time for lrm topics.

AMS has always been near worthless....

Edited by Johnny Z, 23 January 2016 - 11:24 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

LRMs are being horribly out ranged which I think is part of the problem. Snipers hitting 1000+ while LRM users can't even get a lock or fire that far. :\

Here's a topic I started about the ranges which I think would help much more than changing the LRMs. http://mwomercs.com/...58#entry4923658

[Kjudoon]

If you double LRM speed, you do not have to do anything to AMS. On the other hand if you double AMS range to compensate for LRM speed you must fix the broken nature of AMS. This can be partially accomplished by limiting AMS targeting to only missiles aimed at the mech that it is mounted upon.

Doing either one of these changes would go a long way to making singular LRM launchers beneficial in combat. It would minimize the need for boating LRMS, and allow for more diverse loadouts. If you really wanted to do a controversial change to AMS, allow it to shoot down ballistics. Hahaha.

[NextGame]

buff ecm back to where it used to be

[Wolfways]

NextGame, on 24 January 2016 - 01:55 AM, said:

buff ecm back to where it used to be

Because ECM is underpowered now...right?

[Lykaon]

In regards to LRM spotting and good team support...

wanderer, on 23 January 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

Also, TAG requires you to keep the target painted- which is long seconds for a scout to sit there with a laser pointer showing precisely where to shoot for even one salvo, never mind a team, in the open, in good range.

This generally kills the scout. It's also generally not healthy for a self-TAG missile boat either, mind you.

There a few assumptions made here that actually illistrates what I was getting at.

Assumption ONE: That using a TAG requires you to be in FRONT of the enemy. I more often than not when using a TAG from a light mech platform am,never if I can help it targetable by anyone. ECM + good distance from the enemy and clever cover use I am not in line of sight of them so they have no idea their backsides have a red dot on it.

Assumption TWO: TAG use is a light mech thing or an LRM boat thing.If you have a mech that reqires getting some "face time" with your targets if you can fit a TAG you should. I pilot a Banshee that is a giant metal wall of DAKKA. It also has a TAG in the head because I need to be shooting at my targets to deal damage to them so I may as well TAG them as well. Also,when targeting at distance against mechs Covered by ECM the TAG is used like a giant laser sight. The TAG lights a target I pull the trigger on the triple AC5s.Removes the guesswork.

Also there is an assumption that the LRM boat self tagging will be the target of their enemy. If you do this right they will not be targeting you or shooting at you. If you do it wrong the enemy will shoot you to bits because direct fire will almost always win that exchange.

I actually use a technique that literally uses a friendly mech as a shied between you and the enemy. If the battle lines advance my LRM boat is right behind the charge and lobbing shots over the front liners and into the enemy. In this way my mech takes up no "frontage" on the line so I never risk restricting lanes of fire for other friendlies yet still provide damage dealing.What good are three direct fire mechs if only two can use a fire lane.

[Eider]

indirect fire weapons.. lrms are in a good spot as is. Double speed? been there.. it was lrm armageddon phase 2 and we dont need that again. As for the range thing.. there are ways to boost that which is ridiculous. No they are in a good spot. Protip, you can fire them without a lock on by using direct sight.

[Mizore]

Just take a look at MWLL and you'll find a good system how ECM/NARC/TAG and LRMs work fine together in a very balanced way.

Then you'll see that indirect fire (except by using NARC and TAG) is not really necessary.

[NextGame]

Wolfways, on 24 January 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

Because ECM is underpowered now...right?

barely worth carrying if you know how to stand behind a wall. It currently sits in that "slightly better than nothing, so just take it if the mech can carry it" area for me.

too easily countered, and range is too short to be worth much to the team.

Edited by NextGame, 24 January 2016 - 02:56 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Eider unless lrms were double the speed they are now in closed beta you never were there. Nobody was.