88 replies to this topic

[Lykaon]

Hazzula, on 25 January 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

i have been thinking about getting this mech to use as support or a scout. Its default loadout does seem awfully scout like. Im waiting to see if they put it up on sale after the current sale. If they don't then i might as well buy it and see how it handles.

Truth be told the Kitfox is not an ideal scout.The triple AMS and ECM are far more useful to your team near the main battle lines than behind the enemy lines.

The Kitfox also lacks the speed to evade enemy light harassers that will easily run you down.

I have found the best role for an ECM/AMS Kitfox is as an assault mech "babysitter". You hold possition close to your ream's big boys and keep the LRMs off them. Assault mechs are probably the most vulnerable to massed LRM fire of any of the mech weight classes. The reduced mobility can prevent assault mechs from reaching cover quickly.

[Uncle Totty]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 January 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Because doing damage is a more effective way at doing just that, and damage isn't nearly as situational as AMS is.

...and just let the LRMs drop on my team. Really?

[wanderer]

Incidental note: The AMS-as-MG-rule gives you a whopping range of 30m with the AMS in question.

Which basically turns your AMS into the cruddiest point-defense system -ever-.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nathan K, on 25 January 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

...and just let the LRMs drop on my team. Really?

The best way to stop the LRMs, is to kill the LRM mechs, you will run out of AMS ammo before they run out of LRM ammo, and it won't save a bad team either (not that a damaging mech can either, but it helps more).

[wanderer]

Lykaon, on 25 January 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

I have found the best role for an ECM/AMS Kitfox is as an assault mech "babysitter". You hold possition close to your ream's big boys and keep the LRMs off them. Assault mechs are probably the most vulnerable to massed LRM fire of any of the mech weight classes. The reduced mobility can prevent assault mechs from reaching cover quickly.

This. A KFX with dual AMS, ECM, etc. can be a heavier 'Mech pack's best friend.

And it gets downright hilarious with a NARC launcher. C right arm, S left arm, whatever everywhere else, pair of ERMLs for a little firepower, NARC, dual AMS, heck you slap an Active Probe in for good measure if you feel like seeing further, or just a couple of jump jets with an S leg., or MGs for silly with the ballistic torsos. Feels a lot like a slow Raven.

[patataman]

These a few dual ams builds i had in my stable. I played with the vindi and panther during this lurmpocalipse and i'm quite happy with their performance, i like to use the dual ams with fast mechs, to reposition quickly and provide cover wherever it's needed.

Spoiler

Multiple edits: aparently there is a problem between imgur and mwo, and the images don't show Solved.

Edited by patataman, 27 January 2016 - 05:45 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 25 January 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

No offense to the maker of the song you posted but I prefer this version better...plus you get to see the old spiral Artemis trails.

[Uncle Totty]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 January 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

The best way to stop the LRMs, is to kill the LRM mechs, you will run out of AMS ammo before they run out of LRM ammo, and it won't save a bad team either (not that a damaging mech can either, but it helps more).

How do damaged mechs "help more"? How does letting them rain death on you "help more"?

Did you forget that LRMs do not need LoS (Line of Sight) to kill you? Just give them two ECM spotters and you are good as dead.

[Lyoto Machida]

patataman, on 25 January 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

These a few dual ams builds i had in my stable. I played with the vindi and panther during this lurmpocalipse and i'm quite happy with their performance, i like to use the dual ams with fast mechs, to reposition quickly and provide cover wherever it's needed.

Spoiler

What "lurmpocalipse"? There hasn't been one in a while.

Nathan K, on 25 January 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

How do damaged mechs "help more"? How does letting them rain death on you "help more"?

Did you forget that LRMs do not need LoS (Line of Sight) to kill you? Just give them two ECM spotters and you are good as dead.

I think what he's getting at is you're better off doing damage to the other team than trying to protect your team with AMS.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nathan K, on 25 January 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

How do damaged mechs "help more"? How does letting them rain death on you "help more"?

Did you forget that LRMs do not need LoS (Line of Sight) to kill you? Just give them two ECM spotters and you are good as dead.

Lyoto Machida, on 25 January 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

I think what he's getting at is you're better off doing damage to the other team than trying to protect your team with AMS.

[patataman]

Lyoto Machida, on 25 January 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

What "lurmpocalipse"? There hasn't been one in a while.

Well, it's not really a lurmpocalipse because lurms aren't op or anything, but you can't deny the sky is full of lurms these days.

Do you guys remember when the trajectory was flat until the lrms reached the position above their target and then turned 90º and went for the cockpits? That was hilarious, the real lurmpocalipse.

Edited by patataman, 25 January 2016 - 06:05 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

Lyoto Machida, on 25 January 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

What "lurmpocalipse"? There hasn't been one in a while.


I think what he's getting at is you're better off doing damage to the other team than trying to protect your team with AMS.

You say it like it is one or the other. As if "both" is never an option.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 January 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Because doing damage is a more effective way at doing just that, and damage isn't nearly as situational as AMS is.

1.5 ton doesn't allow one to deal noticeably more damage. However, it does allow one to reduce incoming LRMs as well as shooting down NARC beacon. From the math I did, even if half the AMS ammo miss, the amount of armor saved vs. LRMs is 2-3 times more than the amount of tonnage required for AMS + ammo.

And destroying incoming NARC beacon can be a game changer.

http://mwomercs.com/...-psa-equip-ams/

Edited by El Bandito, 25 January 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Incidental note: The AMS-as-MG-rule gives you a whopping range of 30m with the AMS in question.

Which basically turns your AMS into the cruddiest point-defense system -ever-.

Or you could give it the same range as a normal MG

you realize PGI hasnt followed other battletech canon rules right?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nathan K, on 25 January 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

You say it like it is one or the other. As if "both" is never an option.

Both isn't really an option, you can't maximize damage AND max out protection with AMS.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 25 January 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

1.5 ton doesn't allow one to deal noticeably more damage. However, it does allow one to reduce incoming LRMs as well as shooting down NARC beacon. From the math I did, even if half the AMS ammo miss, the amount of armor saved vs. LRMs is 2-3 times more than the amount of tonnage required for AMS + ammo.

That's assuming a lot, that's assuming those missiles were going to hit to begin with and that's assuming it is counting damage that is inconsequential (damaging a dead arm, legs on a hill humper, etc). I'd be willing to bet though that a single AMS does not prevent 500 damage, I rarely see a lurm boat get over 500, granted I haven't played enough solo queue lately.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 January 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

That's assuming a lot, that's assuming those missiles were going to hit to begin with and that's assuming it is counting damage that is inconsequential (damaging a dead arm, legs on a hill humper, etc). I'd be willing to bet though that a single AMS does not prevent 500 damage, I rarely see a lurm boat get over 500, granted I haven't played enough solo queue lately.

Even by preventing 200 damage, that's 6.25 tons of armor saved. Saving 6.25 tons of armor at the cost of 1.5 ton of weight is what I call a good deal. Even 100 damage prevented is 3 tons or armor saved, twice the weight of AMS + ammo.

AMS also shoots down SRMs, SSRMs, and most importantly, NARC beacon. LRMs are not the only weapon that it can mitigate.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 January 2016 - 06:49 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 25 January 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

Even by preventing 200 damage, that's 6.25 tons of armor saved. Saving 6.25 tons of armor at the cost of 1.5 ton of weight is what I call a good deal. Even 100 damage prevented is 3 tons or armor saved, twice the weight of AMS + ammo.

AMS also shoots down SRMs, SSRMs, and most importantly, NARC beacon. LRMs are not the only weapon that it can mitigate.

The question is though, if you prevent 100 damage, are you giving up 100 damage in return? 1.5 tons is 150 SRMs for example. Could an extra cERML or cSPL translate to an extra 100 damage? The answer is yes.

The SRMs it shoots down are inconsequential and SSRMs is cool, but even before the velocity buff it didn't stop that many, at least not enough to stop them from wrecking your lights.

NARC is about the only thing worth stopping, and it is still a very rare thing.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 January 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

The question is though, if you prevent 100 damage, are you giving up 100 damage in return? 1.5 tons is 150 SRMs for example. Could an extra cERML or cSPL translate to an extra 100 damage? The answer is yes.

That depends on the mech. On Heavies and Assaults, 1.5 ton is worth very little. Heck I prefer a BAP over a DHS or a Medium Laser. Adding more lasers than necessary will only makes one overheat faster. Same thing with ammo. In general having 3 tons of ammo per autocannon or per LRM15 launcher lasts through most games. Any more is basically a waste. You could be shooting your SRMs and defending against LRMs at the same time. Can't do that if you add more ammo instead.

Of course, one is free to build whatever he wants in MWO. Just remember, those who do not equip AMS have given up all rights to complain about LRMs.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 January 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 25 January 2016 - 07:44 PM, said:

Adding more lasers than necessary will only makes one overheat faster.

And reduces the TTK on any target, you have plenty of time to cooldown after the mech dies.