45 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I have spent this last weekend doing some levelin' of old dusty Mechs. I have only ever owned a single Cataphract (my Ilya Muromets that I have loveingly called "Perchorsky"), so I have been buying and leveling a couple others. The 0XP has ECM so it cauht my eye, and the 4X can rock the dakka.

Wow.

Now, let me just say that I played the 0XP long enough to basic it, and I just spent GXP to level the 4X. Wonder why? The 4X is just a gorilla-armed version of the JagerMech without any perks. You might as well call the Guns "AutoShovels" because your shots dig into the dirt all the time.

So, I have decided that non-jumping Cataphract are basically "hardmode" for this game if you want to use Autocannons. You're in a heavy Mech that can only engage on perfectly flat terrain. Want to use energy weapons in the shoulder mounts? Sure, you can, but a Firebrand will beat you in a fight since it has both energy and ballistics in high, useable mounts.


Anyways, back to my pointless point. I have decided to train myself in my finally-elited extreme risk/reward loadout. The anti Meta. A down engined, XL-touting, all low-hardpoint, AC-only configured Heavy:

Ilya Murimetes with 3 AC/10s.
XL-255
6 tons ammo
Endosteel
Shave a little armor off the legs.

This is the antimeta. Slow, face-timing, fragile, no Lasers at all, and weapons mounted lower than an Atlas.

This is fun. Real fun. Heart racing, always-afraid-of-death fun. And it's always glory or gore. Despite everything, I got my highest payout PUG mission ever with this load yesterday at 485k C-Bills. In polar highlands. With no AMS, ECM, or LRMs... Or teammates to help. 4 solo kills by sneaking behind the enemy team and stabbing them in the back one by one, plus the mop-up.


Try the antimeta. It will teach you positioning tactics, because you cannot depend on hill poking, corner peeping, or tanking to survive like this. Running wth the antimeta will teach you how to survive a bad-case scenario like no other loadout will. Poorly-engineered Glass Cannons FTW!

Edited by Prosperity Park, 25 January 2016 - 11:32 AM.

[cSand]

Yes!

I see your 3 AC10's and raise you my Ilya build:

3 LBX 10s

i don't need to tell you how hilariously fun it is

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Does my stock+ AWS-8Q count?

'Cuz dat big girl is hardmode...

[CDLord HHGD]

Prosperity Park, on 25 January 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Try the antimeta. It will teach you positioning tactics, because you cannot depend on hill poking, corner peeping, or tanking to survive like this. Running wth the antimeta will teach you how to survive a bad-case scenario like no other loadout will. Poorly-engineered Glass Cannons FTW!

QFT!

I am slowly returning my Clam mechs to stock (slowly because that sh*t costs a lot) and a lot of my regular mechs are close to stock. Sure it a harder grind, but I love it when I score top damage and kills...

[Applecrow]

Had a friend run the 3xlbx10 IM and enjoy it.

This is why I want to go down a tier, not up, so I can run crazy mechs and not evaporate at first contact.

[Felicitatem Parco]

cSand, on 25 January 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

Yes!

I see your 3 AC10's and raise you my Ilya build:

3 LBX 10s

i don't need to tell you how hilariously fun it is

Yeah, yours has way too much free tonnage. I bet you can cram a whole mission's worth of ammo on there!

Ha! Actually, the ammo buff to AC/10 has helped make this work a little since 6 tons of AC/10 ammo = 8 tons of other AC ammo.

I am just flat amazed at how terrible of combat vehicles BattleTech Mechs would be, except for some rarities. So many low hardpoints. So many barndoor profiles. Such short weapon ranges. Heck, a "modern" 25mm AC has a peak range of 3000m, which doubles the AC/2. And don't give me the "battlefield laced with ECM" bogus lone that BattleTech authors use because ECM does not obscure LOS.


Bleh. Anyways, I will be stomping it up again tonight in my trainer Mech. If you kill me, then I will blame your build, not your skill. And if I kill you, I will attribute it to my skill. NannerNannerBooBoo.
:-p

[cSand]

Lol yea

as far as war machines go, mechs are simply there for coolness factor. In real life there would be no good reason to use them. Hell, there would hardly a good reason for ground troops period at this era anyways... Orbital bombardment and air forces would be enough to subdue a planet. Small ground crews armed with spatulas to peel the mess off the sidewalks afterwards:D

Edited by cSand, 25 January 2016 - 01:10 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 25 January 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Does my stock+ AWS-8Q count?

'Cuz dat big girl is hardmode...

There are many non meta builds that are good if you learn an effective non-meta playstyle. I have been getting decent wins in my BJ with 2 AC2 making folks keep their head down while my team goes forward.

There are some stock builds that I would have never designed in my first 2 weeks of playing this game

Non - Meta is not an excuse to be a drag on your team. If your overall performance drops in a non-meta build, you did not contribute all you could.

Meta is neither good or bad, it is a valid measuring stick for the rule of averages. There are always outliers in builds and playstyles that need to be discovered, once they are they may then be considered META.

Being different is about as real as Mommy saying you are special. There are many fun things I can do by myself to feel good that really should not be done in a public team environment.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I love running my Ilya with 3 A/C5s and 3 MLasers. The best part is I can run a STD 290 or 295 (can't remember exactly) engine and enough ammo. The kicker is Endo & Ferro. It's durable and with the A/C quirks, it had a good fire rate.

Now I have moved that general build to the MAD-3R. I may now be interested in going to a triple A/C10 on the Ilya now to mix things up. I hate to lose the durability of the STD engine, but it sounds like an offensive beast.

[Y E O N N E]

I play Mist Lynx. Do I win?

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 25 January 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Does my stock+ AWS-8Q count?

'Cuz dat big girl is hardmode...

Nope, because it has better cooling than an upgraded model with DHS.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 January 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

I play Mist Lynx. Do I win?

You win all the Salutes.

Ya know what else wins my heart? Panthers. They're like Firestarters, but without any reason to be played.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Oh, how about a 1 PPC / 2 A/C2/ 1 MLaser Vindicator 1X?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 25 January 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Nope, because it has better cooling than an upgraded model with DHS.

Wait... wat?

AWS-8Q stock+ DHS
AWS-8Q stock+ SHS

Wow, you weren't kidding... the SHS version has 90 heatcap and 4.31 dissipation compared to the DHS version 79.8 heatcap and 4.07 dissipation. The only killer is that speed difference. Even with that 300 the 8Q feels like it's coated in molasses.

[mogs01gt]

Ive been rocking my 4sp!!

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 25 January 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

Wait... wat?

AWS-8Q stock+ DHS
AWS-8Q stock+ SHS

Wow, you weren't kidding... the SHS version has 90 heatcap and 4.31 dissipation compared to the DHS version 79.8 heatcap and 4.07 dissipation. The only killer is that speed difference. Even with that 300 the 8Q feels like it's coated in molasses.

I had a mathatical analysis of when it makes sense to use SHS thread posted about 2 or 3 days after they changed the values. It was pretty mathy so everyone's eyes glazed over I'm afraid.

Ultimately it boils down to direwolf speed STD engine or XL engine assault energy boats tend to be better off with SHS instead of DHS. Outside of that only the AC20 Raven benefits from SHS since it lets it fit FF armor for more protection and ammo.

However, the only really practical example that comes to mind might be the 4ERLL highlander IIC as it can get the same cooling with SHS but ends up with 20 some odd points more heat cap letting you fire another 2 ERLL before shutdown. Plus clan XL engines aren't insta death so you have quite a bit more tonnage to work with there.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 25 January 2016 - 01:42 PM.

[TimePeriod]

Shadowhawk GD, XL 300
3 mls, Uac5, SRM4+6.
4 x jumpjets.
Dragula

Been rocking this thing for quite a few matches now, with mixed results. Its a brawler for sure and but takes it like a commando between two Atlai. Its really feast for famin with that UAC5 as all weapon range is reduced to 270m max if it jams

For those who are about to brawl, I salute you!

Edited by TimePeriod, 25 January 2016 - 02:07 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 25 January 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

I had a mathatical analysis of when it makes sense to use SHS thread posted about 2 or 3 days after they changed the values. It was pretty mathy so everyone's eyes glazed over I'm afraid.

Ultimately it boils down to direwolf speed STD engine or XL engine assault energy boats tend to be better off with SHS instead of DHS. Outside of that only the AC20 Raven benefits from SHS since it lets it fit FF armor for more protection and ammo.

However, the only really practical example that comes to mind might be the 4ERLL highlander IIC as it can get the same cooling with SHS but ends up with 20 some odd points more heat cap letting you fire another 2 ERLL before shutdown. Plus clan XL engines aren't insta death so you have quite a bit more tonnage to work with there.

I never even stopped and considered SHS on some niche IIC mechs.

This HGN-IIC-A 4xERLL, TC7 was a build I tinkered with in CW but it felt overall anemic and wound up switching over to LPLs and a TC1 and making a Wublander.

Now I want to go back and try the HGN-IIC-A 4x ERLL, SHS build since it has an absolutely absurd heat capacity compared to its DHS brother.

[ilikerice]

cSand, on 25 January 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

Yes!

I see your 3 AC10's and raise you my Ilya build:

3 LBX 10s

i don't need to tell you how hilariously fun it is

This is one of my favorite builds.

I've also taken it one step further and run a 4 lbx Mauler for even more fun.

[1453 R]

It’s not an Ilya, but I’m kina proud of it nonetheless, in all its pre-legged glory.

My favorite Jenner-IIC, and probably my favorite light ‘Mech pretty much ever: William Splatner

A JIIC with all seven of its jump jets installed, but down-engined to a 255cXL in order to pack sufficient ammunition to let a full six-pack of cSRM-4 launchers do their work. The only way I could figure out to get use out of all the JIIC-Prime’s six missile hardpoints, but it somehow turned out to be intensely fun and one of my all-time favorite rides. I love this lethargic little bastiche.

It is slow as a paraplegic walrus by light ‘Mech standards and is horrifyingly vulnerable to things like Firestarters, Wolfhounds, or Cheetahs…but this is another ‘Mech that has gotten four+ kills on Polar simply by maneuvering properly, and even in less maneuver-friendly maps, William Splatner’s huge spike damage and snapshot potential means I can outfight twice my own weight in metal pretty handily if I have the slightest support, and manage to not derp. Having enough jump jets to honest-to-God jump sure doesn’t hurt the mobility front, either.

It…may help that previously, my max-jets PNT-10K[R] was probably my favorite light ‘Mech. Also slow as hell, also overly jumpy (by modern forum standards, anyways), if significantly less well-armed with a single ER-PPC and one SRM-4. I did very much less well in the Super Stock PNT-10K, but whenever I did score a kill with it I felt like the king of the g’damned world.

Which, honestly, has transferred over to William Splatner. I just get to do it a whole lot more often with twenty-four SRM tubes instead of four tubes and a permagimped particle cannon.