LegendaryArticuno, on 26 January 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:
Sorry this will be some harsh criticism, but I'm shaking my head at their KickStarter campaign in which they raised over 2.7 million.
First off I'd like to say Shadowrun was incredibly overrated and I truly regret purchasing it during the Steam Sale.
Back to the upcoming Battletech game, what HBS does best is make KickStarter videos rather than games with longevity. Looking at the early in-engine video, I can immediately see that this game will be more shallow than MechCommander Gold, which offered real time gameplay and control of up to 3 lances.
As of right now, it looks like most of the development has gone into making graphics for KickStarter rewards and backer goals.
PGI, I hope you were compensated for 'sharing' those Mech assets and designs.
IGP and mechwarrior: Tactics
i feel history repeating, but hey, at least they had the balz to just outright ask for money this time without hiding behind the premise of releasing a game......oh wait a sec....
HBS just killed Golem Arcana, but while I bitter at seeing it end I saw how much work they put into it and can honestly say they did a great job. The factions are unique, the miniatures are amazing and the way the game plays is very solid.
If you wanted to see what they did, follow those links.
This makes me extremely hopeful for Battletech because they do invest a lot in making their products. I saw myself that the sales for GA were pretty low, the local game store barely had any products in stock and when they did my friend bought them and they didn't bother to restock and he already owns 2 of everything from the kickstarter so we figured sales were crappy because you need to have a tablet to play the game.
A 50$ kindle is good enough to play it, its what I use. Just needs bluetooth and enough processor power to run the app.
Don't fret over this new game of theirs, they have been doing a good job and I really like the Shadowrun games.
It's a bit early to be a bittervet. I think I gave them something like $50.
There's an argument about supporting Battletech games to keep the franchise alive, and in this sense, I think it's better to have spent, say, $300 on MWO over 3 years and $50 on HBS Battletech, rather than simply spending $350 on MWO. I think it's important to show devs that Battletech has a future, both as a FPS and a strategy game.
Not really impressed by their website, but I'll just let that game slow cook in the background and focus on how other games are doing for a while.
LegendaryArticuno, on 26 January 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:
Sorry this will be some harsh criticism, but I'm shaking my head at their KickStarter campaign in which they raised over 2.7 million.
First off I'd like to say Shadowrun was incredibly overrated and I truly regret purchasing it during the Steam Sale.
Back to the upcoming Battletech game, what HBS does best is make KickStarter videos rather than games with longevity. Looking at the early in-engine video, I can immediately see that this game will be more shallow than MechCommander Gold, which offered real time gameplay and control of up to 3 lances.
As of right now, it looks like most of the development has gone into making graphics for KickStarter rewards and backer goals.
PGI, I hope you were compensated for 'sharing' those Mech assets and designs.
Wow i have no words... Ok i do Mechcommander Gold is by far the best Mechwarrior game ever created and Shadowrun Returns, Dragonfall, Hong Kong were really good games and i still have my Second Edition Pen & Paper Shadowrun books under my bed...
You sir have zero clue and need to find some purist AA meetings to join...
As a person who is against any sort of pre-ordering/early-access/kickstarter shenanigans, i did not shell anything out on it.
I probably would've cracked and threw all my money at them if they had confirmed quads, though.
Other than that, i'm confident that Battletech will be a good (if not an excellent) game, like their Shadowrun titles (which i enjoyed immensely, even though i was not familiar with the source material or even the whole cyberpunk setting).
LegendaryArticuno, on 26 January 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:
Sorry this will be some harsh criticism, but I'm shaking my head at their KickStarter campaign in which they raised over 2.7 million.
First off I'd like to say Shadowrun was incredibly overrated and I truly regret purchasing it during the Steam Sale.
Back to the upcoming Battletech game, what HBS does best is make KickStarter videos rather than games with longevity. Looking at the early in-engine video, I can immediately see that this game will be more shallow than MechCommander Gold, which offered real time gameplay and control of up to 3 lances.
As of right now, it looks like most of the development has gone into making graphics for KickStarter rewards and backer goals.
PGI, I hope you were compensated for 'sharing' those Mech assets and designs.
Posting on PGI's forum about someone else being less than honest?
The irony here is so thick, you could cut it with a knife.
The first Shadowrun has over 500 positive reviews against 200 mixed and just over a 100 negative reviews on Metacritic. A roughly overall 7.4. All based on userbase reviews.
Hong Kong has respectively (Over a 100 positive, 23 mixed and just over 10 negative.) ending with a rating of 7.8
Dragonfall has respectively (167 positive against 20 mixed and over 10 negative) ending with a rating of 8.3. All based on userbase reviews.
Now let’s go back to a multiplatform where abouts the most users are found: Steam.
-- Back the to the point: Let’s take a look at MWO. 240 positive, 141 mixed and over 380 negative. It’s not bad, but not good either.
HBS has a rich history of developing and improving games bye each cycle. On the other hand we have PGI; a ‘rich’ history of developing DS handheld games and fishing games. Not trying to bash PGI here but stating a few facts. PGI still do not have the base pillars of the game yet as promised back in 2012.
Now if we take a look at the recent Kickstarter of the new upcoming BattleTech game they just have raised over 2.7 million, while PGI had back in 2012 raised over 5 million.
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IGP president Kelly Zmak, a veteran game developer and former president of Radical Entertainment, adds, "We've sold over 70,000 Founder's packages. The basic demographics were 35 percent at the $30-dollar level, 30 percent at the $60-dollar level, and the remainder at the $120 level."
Tell me, how many of them are still actively playing?
Or better said:
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Infinite Games Publishing, publisher of the Piranha Games developed MechWarrior Online announced rather casually that it has reached one million registered users.
So in contrast they’re not many people playing this game if the barrier is beyond 1M registered users Unfortunately PGI never released actual active player numbers but we can still get a good grasp of analying and observing latest events. Go look them up for yourself and enlighten yourself.
Again i am not trying to spit at PGI or anything but the OP bashes a other developer in a own other game's echo-chamber; HBS just took off with a new challenge, has a better history and is already actively communcating with the Community.
The only point i can agree on is that people should not expect a AAA+ rating from HBS games. But what they can expect is AAA+ effort, interaction and develop time they don’t deal with silly things like ‘minimable viable product’.
I would like to point out a small thing from my review over there:
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PGI takes the pasta, make their own sauce and continues to battle with the cheese for years.
Pretty spot on, right? Read the full review.
-- Sure PGI have improved after September ’14 but it’s not enough by a long shot. But(!) I am personally seeing more and more positive things. Which is both exciting and good but i am afraid the most damage has been already done.
I am not going to debate and discuss endless stories of why i permantly retired (Perhaps except for Independence day, who’s in with me?)
I see Russ is really trying but the lack of experience, poor communication, minimum viable product, the current management and the lead designer is killing it on the long way and not to mention people supporting the bad habits of this gamestudio. Remember that Bryan Ekman still works at PGI after announcing the deal with Trannyverse? The sh!tstorm was huge. You don’t hear him no longer more on the forums, but he is still active within the company. Just as the lead designer both in my opinion responsible of the bad reputation of MWO. Russ won’t ditch them as they know each other for 14 years. Can’t blame him for not doing that, but it does damage the game. I wish people would see this. The amount of wasted potential we talk about here is huge.
I have had more communication from HBS in weeks before and after the KS campaign then from PGI in years.
As one member of BT forum says:
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How about this, >>>This post has been edited for a Code of Conduct breach: Outing Other User's Identity <<< I had more than a one-hour phone call with Mitch because of my misgivings concerning backing another BattleTech universe product/project because of what PGI has done. He assured me, multiple times on the phone, that their largest concern at HBS was ensuring they stuck to the lore as much as possible. Not porting in the tabletop rules... [load more]
How is this not be more awesome? --> It's as personal it gets for a backer. Recieving a phonecall at home.
In the end i would like to say your argument is very poor and not backed up and just one-liners to bash a other developer. Oh, the irony.
No hard feelings and i hopefully see you on BattleTech aswell! See you around (or not)
But what they can expect is AAA+ effort, interaction and develop time [/u]they don’t deal with silly things like ‘minimable viable product’. I’ll just leave this here: Source: https://mwomercs.com...dpost__p__74805This never have changed. And never will.
You have no idea what you're talking about if you're complaining about the term "minimally viable product". Guess what: HBS's game will be released as an MVP. Star Citizen will be released as an MVP. Pretty much all modern software is released that way: A set of minimum features that are needed for release are identified, and once those features are completed the product is released.
And that you say it will *always* be an MVP also shows you have no idea what the term actually means. They have 2 years of releasing feature above and beyond the MVP feature list.
Every time someone complains about the term MVP, they just expose their ignorance about how things work.
I'm not usually the finger-pointing kind but OP is an idiot.
We're talking about making a game for an almost dead brand (let's be real here). I'm surprised HBS is even willing to take the risk - that's why their lowest tier of goal was a mere $200k, which was basically saying "we really want to make this game but we're not sure if people's gonna like this, so let's start with a little bit of money and a bare-minimal product goal." I'm surprised they've even managed to get 2 millions, which still isn't much for developing a game.
Of course they're gonna keep making noises in Kickstarter updates. They're probably building the game's back end right now, which probably won't make an interesting read. And their PR crew can't code, so what do want them to do? Dance on the ******* roof?
By the way, do everyone a favor and stop using "overrated" like it's actual criticism. I played Shadowrun, didn't like it, didn't hate it, found the cheesy writing to be lolable, but the quality is there. 7/10. You can say you don't like a game but calling the dev PROFESSIONAL PANDERERS & PANHANDLERS stop just stop.
You have no idea what you're talking about if you're complaining about the term "minimally viable product". Guess what: HBS's game will be released as an MVP. Star Citizen will be released as an MVP. Pretty much all modern software is released that way: A set of minimum features that are needed for release are identified, and once those features are completed the product is released.
And that you say it will *always* be an MVP also shows you have no idea what the term actually means. They have 2 years of releasing feature above and beyond the MVP feature list.
Every time someone complains about the term MVP, they just expose their ignorance about how things work.
Please do not make assumptions, Heffay. I certainly know what it means and in what context it has been placed. That does not mean it's not damaging the game, in fact it does See further for a small explaination.
It doesn't matter how or why this concept has been chosen. Because if anything does not add up then it's the developtime =/= content. It has been minimal viable from the start. It's suprisingly shocking how low the development time is and in my opinion it suits that word very well.
Like you said yourself, a minimal viable product can be viable. But we have a problem: PGI is doing it wrong.
To explain things a little further:
Right. I think it's pretty clear where i am aiming at.
Quote
...And that you say it will *always* be an MVP also shows you have no idea what the term actually means. They have 2 years of releasing feature above and beyond the MVP feature list.
Doesn't change the fact that the game is extremely basic and shallow to begin with. Minimal viable product did certainly had something do with it. Why else are we missing certain features out we were promised to? - Hell to say it more precicesly PGI just release content 'just' enough to make people happy. C.W. both phase I and II was a great succes right? What about the features up to now? I mean VOIP has incredible rich features - right? Sorry, It screams wasted potential all over the place because PGI only implented basic features leave the rest half-assed. Look at that image again i just posted.
Am i saying they utterly suck and haven't developed a thing in all these years?
Ofcourse not: they did improve but it's all a little too late for that: look at their development pace over the last 12 months I am realistic when it comes to develop time, spending money and have a skeptical look on development. Unless others who seems to be fine with and that's ok if you haven't experienced better development processes.
PGI have been known for making questionable decisions and like i said they will continue to waste potential in the future.
Maybe for you. But since they are pulling in better numbers than they ever have in the past, it seems like quite the opposite is true. You're complaining about a situation that just doesn't exist for the vast majority of people playing the game.
Honestly, you're complaining about the game not being what you want instead of the what the game actually is. It's like ordering a cheeseburger and saying "man, this is the worst pizza I ever had." Just plain dumb.
Maybe for you. But since they are pulling in better numbers than they ever have in the past, it seems like quite the opposite is true. You're complaining about a situation that just doesn't exist for the vast majority of people playing the game.
Honestly, you're complaining about the game not being what you want instead of the what the game actually is. It's like ordering a cheeseburger and saying "man, this is the worst pizza I ever had." Just plain dumb.
What has it to do that i have thrown in my towell?
You can be constructive but instead i get boo-hood - Are you even trying to make the connection?
Increasing numbers of players does not equals growth of funds in a Free to Play game.
PGI haven't changed their businesmodel since 2012 or after the split in 2014. That's a fact.
PGI implents features, wraps them up and 'new' and 'shiny' while they're just basic features and does not covers the whole thing. That's a fact.
We still don't have the 4 pillars in-game as of yet promised. That's a fact.
There's nothing wrong with growth at all. We are talking about HBS and PGI. Two different games and two different experience where abouts HBS excellence in experience and interaction. PGI does not. Eventually PGI will get there but it takes significant amount of time, frustation and changes (which they are NOT willing to make up).
PGI gives you a dead bird and to my understanding you are happy with it. "It doesn't fly, but atleast you have a bird." It's okay. Eventually people will figure it out in months -if not years.
After the split in '14 things should have gotten better. PGI have increased their sales as in mech packs. Now selling mech packs are not wrong and i am sure they will need the cash in order to survive but it looks to me you have no idea what a good develop time and pace is. For Veterans among you there are new issues rising because of getting saturated by the amount of mech packs. Which by any means their whole business model is starting to show some serious cracks. Mech packs are becoming saturated.
Here's a summary i made:
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-- In January '15, After alot of chit-chat and brought you Community Warfare phase I Grouping with any Faction members - Self-explanatory, Call to Arms Improvements and three new 'battle windows'. That's it.
-- In February '15 PGI insisted of creating or improve several features of Community Warfare phase I such as: Ceasefire Window Improvements for Non NA Players, Queue Info changes, Counter Attacks and releasing 'Loyalty Points'.
Furthermore: Faction chat, frame rate increase, terrible VOIP quality, a champion mech and the delivery of the first IS resistance packs.
Now is this a full month worth of development paying for?
-- March '15 - VOIP icon (why didnt we had it in February?) basic features as should been in February such as: muting players and more are brought a month later.
Bug fixes, new champion mech, Drop deck tonnage IS versus Clans, finishes CW map release, Final resistance mech pack content release, Clan skin content, shallow quirks and the start of applying geometery passes of the first two victims: the Cataphract and the Jagermech.
-- April '15 - Looking for group feature, a new CW map, small adjustments to the client, crash reporting tool, patcher improvement the release of the Urbie and a champion Wolverine mech.
-- May '15 - New CW map, Faction camo fix, some 3D HUD fixes and improvements, a simple NARC indicator on the HUD, small improvements to some features, Clan wave II and III rewards.
Furthermore: small improvements to VOIP quality, release of chamption Jagermech, more mastery bundles and two mechs added to giftstore.
-- June, July and August '15. (Yes PGI combined it)
-- June '15 - New mechlab (copy/paste from Smurfy), 4 new variants for IS Resistance I, reduced volley delays for clans, delivery of two clan mechs from Clan wave III, MASC equipment added and CW map changes.
-- July '15 - Excisting map River City overhaul, small fixes, expand view 720p devices, two new hero mechs; Thunderbolt and Wolverine and geometery passes on 5 mechs.
Releasing 2 final clan mechs from Clan wave III content and added EU servers.
-- August '15 - Spec tool and release of new mech select and added Oceanic servers.
-- September '15 - Release of Mauler mech, introduction of Black Knight mech and release of PSR and Mech Academy. New homescreen.
Start of the great rebalance.
-- October '15 - Fall damage, JJ thrusts, JJ turnrate Omni mech and Clan XL destruction adjustments. Updated reward system and preperation of IS quirks on Public Test Server.
-- November '15 - Ongoing balance attempts, small bug foxes, release of more mechs and hero mechs and a new map. Not much happened.
-- December '15 - Hitbox corrections, quirk updates and CW phase II.
I guess you are perfectly fine with it. Nothing wrong with that but you should realise how incredible low standards you might have. For a AAA rated game this is laughable, Heffay. You should know this.
PGI have changed, that's a fact too but should we consider it as positive or negative? That's up to anyone else to decide.
Look i'm *NOT* trying to bash PGI here, but the OP was bashing another developer from a echo-chamber and call them panderers and panhandles without backing up.
As to you; i think i'm done with you with this chit chat.
I have seen you on the official HBS BT forums as well which is great and with all respect i certainly hope you will be more constructive then you did with MWO, Reddit and the Star Citizen forum.
Here's a thing what might fit your needs of a minimal viable product. It's rich and with full packed features you can actually hear other people's mumblings.
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LegendaryArticuno, on 26 January 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:
