106 replies to this topic

[butchly13]

KinLuu, on 27 January 2016 - 05:56 AM, said:

No, it is not.

3.0 w/l ratio is what I consider better than average. Besides - you can not really calculate averages from 30 something games.

I saw a few others jumping on this, but seriously? I've seen some elitists on here but damn. Try picking on someone your own size instead of pug stomping in Tier 5.

Tarogato, on 27 January 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

Mediocre 1.06 kill ratio

Crazy inefficient 567-to-1 damage/kill ratio.

That's why LRMs are actually bad. It's right there in your data. =P

Sure it's inefficient, but that means someone else is getting a more efficient kill. Plus, kills don't really matter when 5 people are shooting the same mech. Going off kills is near-meaningless in this game because your entire team can get an assist shooting at one mech. Conversely, one player can snag 12 kills and sub 100 damage because he got the single killing blow on every enemy mech.

LRMs aren't supposed to be efficient killers. They're fire support. They're meant to keep the enemy hunkered down or annoy the piss out of them from range while giving your team time to set up. I personally don't use LRMs because I don't like sitting back and watching the action. But, the only LRM boats I'm going to give a hard time are the ones firing from 800+ range and half their missiles aren't even making it to the target because the target is smart enough to put more distance between them and the boat. I love LRM boats that lay down continuous fire and keep the enemy from getting into a good position. I love their 600+ damage games because it means my light can swoop in and target components instead of taking on a fresh mech.

[Havyek]

An "effective" LRM boat mixes LRMs with direct fire weapons and advances with the team. They stay in LOS of their target and sponge damage just like everyone else.

[Jman5]

Good for you, but I know you could climb to tier 1 even faster if you brought more ammo. I would probably rip off one of those LRM 15s and go with at least 10 tons of ammo.

[wanderer]

Quote

- False, LRM boats can seemingly perform well when riding the wave of a good team that can shield the said boat. They do not influence the course of a battle in any meaningful way unless in a dedicated drop

My usually holed-in-multiple-places Orion would beg to differ.

People tend to leave an astonishingly large number of nearly-dead opponents out there (which, given the nature of LRM targeting, we get an eyeful of more than most.).

I hunt them down and kill them, frequently in cases where other 'Mechs have trouble.

Fleeing light 'Mech you'd be lucky to scratch with a laser at 600m? Yeah, that was my LRMs that tore the leg off, what with the tracking and the tendency to hit the sweet spots. All you had to do was watch.

That guy who's nearly impossible to finish off because he's shielding and poking like a champ from an otherwise great position? Yeah, that was my salvo that went over the hill and ended the discussion. I had a spare one to donate from the other side of the hill where I was helping shoot up the main body.

The reason that assault is into orange armor before he got around the corner to start trading? Thank me and that ECM scout who decided it was a good target to snipe with ERLLs. We softened it up for you.

Got caught out away from the group and getting circle-of deathbed? Good thing you sent up that UAV. I'll ruin his day for you. Nobody else would get LOS in time, but that's what LRMs are for.

Now, if you got stuck with that 54kph walking turret that can't keep up, can't position, and endlessly begs for locks because it can't get them, and heaven help us if someone actually gets in LOS cause "WE NEEDED MORE MISSILES"?

That's a useless piece of junk that mooches off your team and doesn't win you any games. Passive players that do LRM boats don't win games. A good LRM user is mobile, opportunistic, and should have 10-12 'Mechs kill/assisted per match and under-25% ammo load by the end, if not a dry set of launchers while hunting with your secondary guns.

Edited by wanderer, 27 January 2016 - 12:03 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Jman5, on 27 January 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Good for you, but I know you could climb to tier 1 even faster if you brought more ammo. I would probably rip off one of those LRM 15s and go with at least 10 tons of ammo.

Funny you say that because I stripped one of the 4 15s on my 8R yesterday and went back to 3x15 and 2 LLs with TAG.

[Navid A1]

I use slightly different config on my 8R.

2x MLs + (3xLRM15 + LRM5) + TAG
STD 295 engine + 1620 lurms + 3 extra DHS.

works wonders!

[pyrocomp]

Alistair Winter, on 27 January 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

In CounterStrike, if you're able to rescue the hostages or plant the bomb without being seen or even firing a single shot, you're celebrated as a ninja. In MWO, people boo and hiss and the game punishes you for effectively doing the same thing.

There is no penalty to taking damage (in the form of R&R or lack of 'economy' bonus or any other form). Only bonus for dealing it. So base capping is a last resort before the loss.

[Chados]

Though I do not boat...I'm too aggressive...I agree that LRMs get a bad rap.

I run with 30 Artemis tubes, 1080 rounds, the bare min for a 65-80 ton LRM carrier. Why? So I can brawl too. I want a 20-damage alpha to go with those tubes and I carry BAP on all LRM carriers with more than 15 tubes. 4 ML...SRMs...MLx4 + LL...uAC/5 + 2xERLL have served me well in the past. Prototype mech...CPLT-A1C, 2xALRM15, 2xASRM4, 2xSSRM2. It was my go-to for 153 drops, until my VTR-DS came around for the next 153 drops (superseded by the CPLT-J with 192), and the A1C taught me how to short range direct fire brawl and use LRMs in support too, as one combined platform. If I'm not in max SRM range or trying to close to it when LRMing, I feel like I'm doing it wrong.

Really looking forward to the CPLT rescale.

Thanks, Alistair.

[xXBagheeraXx]

The absolute best Cbill farmer in the game are LRM hero mechs. My Madcat prime ran 2 artemis 15's for the LONGEST time and absolutely loaded me with Cbills. I switched it to a streak light mech hunter to deal with the AC swarms but I might switch it back to an LRM build soon...I want to fill out my stable with Jagermechs since they are on sale and deck out my recently repurchased Wubbmaster.

Chados, on 27 January 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

Though I do not boat...I'm too aggressive...I agree that LRMs get a bad rap.

I run with 30 Artemis tubes, 1080 rounds, the bare min for a 65-80 ton LRM carrier. Why? So I can brawl too. I want a 20-damage alpha to go with those tubes and I carry BAP on all LRM carriers with more than 15 tubes. 4 ML...SRMs...MLx4 + LL...uAC/5 + 2xERLL have served me well in the past. Prototype mech...CPLT-A1C, 2xALRM15, 2xASRM4, 2xSSRM2. It was my go-to for 153 drops, until my VTR-DS came around for the next 153 drops (superseded by the CPLT-J with 192), and the A1C taught me how to short range direct fire brawl and use LRMs in support too, as one combined platform. If I'm not in max SRM range or trying to close to it when LRMing, I feel like I'm doing it wrong.

Really looking forward to the CPLT rescale.

Thanks, Alistair.

Are they going to fix those Ugly Add on launchers? I want to drive my SplatCat again...

[Wolfways]

My favourite weapons in BT are LRM's and PL's. Unfortunately, whenever I use LRM's it reduces my damage score by a lot and I don't do as well in matches. I just mostly feel that the tonnage would be better used by getting more heat sinks instead

[xXBagheeraXx]

wanderer, on 27 January 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

[/u]

My usually holed-in-multiple-places Orion would beg to differ.

People tend to leave an astonishingly large number of nearly-dead opponents out there (which, given the nature of LRM targeting, we get an eyeful of more than most.).

I hunt them down and kill them, frequently in cases where other 'Mechs have trouble.

Fleeing light 'Mech you'd be lucky to scratch with a laser at 600m? Yeah, that was my LRMs that tore the leg off, what with the tracking and the tendency to hit the sweet spots. All you had to do was watch.

That guy who's nearly impossible to finish off because he's shielding and poking like a champ from an otherwise great position? Yeah, that was my salvo that went over the hill and ended the discussion. I had a spare one to donate from the other side of the hill where I was helping shoot up the main body.

The reason that assault is into orange armor before he got around the corner to start trading? Thank me and that ECM scout who decided it was a good target to snipe with ERLLs. We softened it up for you.

Got caught out away from the group and getting circle-of deathbed? Good thing you sent up that UAV. I'll ruin his day for you. Nobody else would get LOS in time, but that's what LRMs are for.

Now, if you got stuck with that 54kph walking turret that can't keep up, can't position, and endlessly begs for locks because it can't get them, and heaven help us if someone actually gets in LOS cause "WE NEEDED MORE MISSILES"?

That's a useless piece of junk that mooches off your team and doesn't win you any games. Passive players that do LRM boats don't win games. A good LRM user is mobile, opportunistic, and should have 10-12 'Mechs kill/assisted per match and under-25% ammo load by the end, if not a dry set of launchers while hunting with your secondary guns.

This is LRM support. This is what I build all my LRM mechs to do....

[LordNothing]

lerm boats are useful for cbill padding. they also net other players points for things like spotting, tag damage, narcs, etc. they are also good if you need to level a mech faster. so yea there is a place for them.

i had avoided boating for a solid 10 months straight, and i kind of started again when i got my maurader pack. i build an lrm30 maurader with an erppc and 4ml. after that i popped my bubble and started using them in other builds. first boat after that was probibly an lrm60 ebon jag, which i had given up trying to use as a close in mech. stuck 30 tubes on an exe i was getting frustrated with leveling.

now i got a build not too different from the op, i also got a highlander with lerms and an ac20 (its funny watching mechs try to close in to 180 meters only to get face blasted by the ac20). now im running at least one lerm varient of all the mechs ive bought on sale. quickdraws, awesomes, highlanders, battlemasters (also shawks but those are better for ballistic). i want to get some orions if i can free the bays. probibly lerm up at least one of those.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 January 2016 - 03:29 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Alistair, you wound like a pathetic whelp who would rather help your team win than steal the glorious killshots for yourself.

*scoffs in your direction*

You dirty, long haired hippy communist.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 January 2016 - 03:34 PM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

Alistair Winter, on 27 January 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

Lately, I've set 2 goals for myself:

• I needed to save a lot of C-bills so I can instantly buy all the Maulers and fully upgrade them when they're available for C-bills next week.
  
• I need to get to Tier 1 to reduce the average number of steering wheels on my team.

As it happens, I have the perfect vessel to reach my goals:




There's a myth on the forums that LRM boats are terrible. There's also a myth that LRM boats are OP and need to be nerfed. It's kind of funny, because in 50% of my matches, I get flak from enemies for being a no skill LRM boat noob. In the other 50% of my matches, I get flak from my teammates for being a useless LRM boat who contributes nothing to my team.

While I don't want to take anything away from their keen analysis, here are some raw numbers from my last 30 matches:

• Average match score is 374.
  
• Average damage is 605.
  
• WLR is 1.7 in solo queue (Tier 2)
  
• In 30 matches, only 4 resulted in lower PSR. 26 matches raised my PSR.

Spreadsheet here:

Spoiler

So you see, Ivan, when you run terrible Awesome mech, your terribleness spreads to enemies and kills them.

TL;DR:

• LRM boats do contribute to winning matches
  
• LRM boats are great for farming cash
  
• LRM boats are great for increasing PSR
  
• While ineffective against the very best MWO players, I dare say that 90% of MWO players die from LRMs just fine.

PS: I do not think LRMs in MWO are well balanced, by the way. I think the missile lock mechanism needs to be redesigned to put more emphasis on aiming skills, and then you can increase missile speed and make LRMs good weapons for comp teams too. Right now, you need almost zero aiming skills, you only need a good sense of tactics and positioning to do well with LRMs. But that's a discussion for another time.

i have been having similar results with my marauder, also similar "spot on" analysis from team mates and enemies alike. while my score isn't as good as yours it's fine. in 182 games i have an average damage of 486 and a kdr of 1.90. my build is 4 medium lasers, 2 lrm 15's with artemis and a tag, nothing special but often i'm the highest score on either team or at least one of the highest.

[Chados]

xXBagheeraXx, on 27 January 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

Are they going to fix those Ugly Add on launchers? I want to drive my SplatCat again...

Jes.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Chados, on 27 January 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

Jes.

Ballin'

[Zordicron]

TercieI, on 27 January 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

"LRM boats are great for increasing PSR"

Wel, that's the final nail in PSR's coffin.

This had already been discovered the first week we knew anything about PSR. Raw dmg= you go up in tiers faster. Nothing does raw dmg like LRM60 Awesome 8R "Lurmpockolypse" (that's what i named mine a looooong time ago)

Still, Lurmpockolypse Now is good for some hardy lulz.

[wanderer]

Quote

Funny you say that because I stripped one of the 4 15s on my 8R yesterday and went back to 3x15 and 2 LLs with TAG.

Triple 15's also means less spooky heat vs. quad LRM 15', which means you can sustain fire longer.

[Alistair Winter]

pyrocomp, on 27 January 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

There is no penalty to taking damage (in the form of R&R or lack of 'economy' bonus or any other form). Only bonus for dealing it. So base capping is a last resort before the loss.

Yes, that's my point. The game mode leads to a very weird way of playing the game. In other games, the game modes encourage the way of least resistance. Whether it's CounterStrike or Quake 2 Capture the Flag, you want to win the game as quickly and easily as possible.

In MWO, you get encouraged for the way of most resistance. You get paid more if you spread damage, you get special bonuses for brawling, and you don't get anything if you win by cap in two minutes.

wanderer, on 27 January 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

Triple 15's also means less spooky heat vs. quad LRM 15', which means you can sustain fire longer.

I almost always chain-fire, unless I have a very narrow window of opportunity and lots of free heat capacity.

[Ratpoison]

Alistair Winter, on 27 January 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Yes, that's my point. The game mode leads to a very weird way of playing the game. In other games, the game modes encourage the way of least resistance. Whether it's CounterStrike or Quake 2 Capture the Flag, you want to win the game as quickly and easily as possible.

In MWO, you get encouraged for the way of most resistance. You get paid more if you spread damage, you get special bonuses for brawling, and you don't get anything if you win by cap in two minutes.

Very much agreed with this, and it's the main flaw in MWO's game objectives. In CounterStrike, the bomb is such a critical objective that nearly all the action revolves around it, as control of the bomb is rewarded with the ability to take up defensive positions that give you an advantage, by forcing the enemy to take a predictable path, either to pick it up or to defuse it. This is also why CounterStrike is so well suited for esport venues and MWO isn't; there's no palpable back and forth play going on with these objectives that are strictly secondary, and objectives lend no significant in game advantage like the bomb in CounterStrike does.

I don't know what a more objective oriented game mode might look like for this game, but I hope PGI is thinking about their game mode designs with this perspective in mind.