74 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

Darian DelFord, on 28 January 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

its not a nerf, its a fix to a known and exploitable bug. Which gives the system far more potential than its suppose to have. Add in the crits and the weight and no complaints, that will actually balance the boat builds.
Once again I have no issue with streak boats. I have an issue with streak boats that exploit the Artemis with less than a second lock on times which spells almost instant death for lights and some mediums.

Its a nerf.

No-one wants to have Dev's wasting time on a bug that allows streaks to gain their lock a few milliseconds faster. The Dev's have way bigger issues to worry about than under-performing weapons having a slight benefit with broken code.

Edited by mogs01gt, 28 January 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[dario03]

Obviously some people do want them to fix the issue... And depending on the fix it might not take all that long anyways.
Also you seem to be downplaying their effectiveness quite a bit. But if they are to weak against heavies and assaults perhaps while adjusting them they could adjust how they work against each class so that they are more well rounded.

[Darian DelFord]

mogs01gt, on 28 January 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

Its a nerf.

No-one wants to have Dev's wasting time on a bug that allows streaks to gain their lock a few milliseconds faster. The Dev's have way bigger issues to worry about than under-performing weapons having a slight benefit with broken code.

Milli seconds?

Try anywhere between a half and 3/4 of a second depending on your build.

dario03, on 28 January 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

........
Also you seem to be downplaying their effectiveness quite a bit. But if they are to weak against heavies and assaults perhaps while adjusting them they could adjust how they work against each class so that they are more well rounded.

Aye people think that 36 missiles which are un-guided is something to laugh at. However they are not, and its really funny people have this thought process.

A good streaker will never be targetable. really need to find those vids of my crow at 900+ damage and 6 or so kills each match.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 28 January 2016 - 11:15 AM.

[totgeboren]

Ok, it's a bug. But how do you think it should be fixed?

Lets say we have a mech with art, some lrms and some streaks. Should lock-on be decided by the slowest system? Now it's decided by the fastest system.
Should there be two separate lock-ons, like a blue ring outside the current red ring? How much time do you think the devs would need to put in to rework the targeting interface?
Is that time better spent on something else?

[mogs01gt]

dario03, on 28 January 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

Obviously some people do want them to fix the issue... And depending on the fix it might not take all that long anyways.
Also you seem to be downplaying their effectiveness quite a bit. But if they are to weak against heavies and assaults perhaps while adjusting them they could adjust how they work against each class so that they are more well rounded.

Who cares what those people want. The other issues in this game out weigh an artemis bug that allows a poor weapon system to perform better.

[dario03]

totgeboren, on 28 January 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

Ok, it's a bug. But how do you think it should be fixed?

Lets say we have a mech with art, some lrms and some streaks. Should lock-on be decided by the slowest system? Now it's decided by the fastest system.
Should there be two separate lock-ons, like a blue ring outside the current red ring? How much time do you think the devs would need to put in to rework the targeting interface?
Is that time better spent on something else?

Well two lock ons would be nice but a quicker fix would be the good ol' quirk system. On a artemis equipped mech put 2 sets of streaks in the mechlab, one with the extra crit and ton that would keep working like now. the other without but they come with a negative quirk that lowers the effectiveness of artemis. Make it percentage based or a ratio based on amount of lrms and ssrms or something similar.
So something like a streakcrow would get zero benefit from artemis unless it spends the weight and crits, but something like a 3lrmx, 3ssrmx maddog would get something like half the benefit by giving up some lock time from the lrms or it could spend the tons and crits. Though I would make it so you need to spend the tonnage/crits or get hit by a big penalty.

[Lyoto Machida]

MerryIguana, on 27 January 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

While i feel for you, consider this Darian. A 1 ton investment of tag on a streak boat gets even faster locks. The best streakboats bring this already. Net change = not much at all.

And what happens to lock times when said streakboat stacks that TAG with the bugged Artemis streaks?

[Deathlike]

It would take actual EFFORT and TIME to get this fixed... neither of which PGI is willing to exert to fix this. You could say the same for Flamers or LBX.

As far as I'm concerned, this is Legacy/Lostech code for PGI... a "placeholder" if you will (linking the Artemis code lazily to be handled many years later is some great plot or something).

For Streaks as a Light pilot, the best decision is to find out as quickly as possible what mech is carrying them and determine whether to engage.

"Skillcrows" (Stormcrow), "Skilldogs" (Maddogs), "Suckyskilloners" (Summoners) are probably only the greatest threat (IS Streakboats are weaksauce by comparison) and you're supposed to use some semblance of intelligence if you wish to engage such a target.

The only thing that's kinda nice is that the Jenner-IIC-3 is an "upgrade" over the Jenner-D... but then the primary Jenner-IIC is the Oxide that wasn't (Oxide's structure buffs are crazy). "JennerStreakin'" isn't that great IMO (it boats SSRM4s for better cooldown).

Edited by Deathlike, 28 January 2016 - 12:02 PM.

[MerryIguana]

Lyoto Machida, on 28 January 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

And what happens to lock times when said streakboat stacks that TAG with the bugged Artemis streaks?

Yes its faster. But diminishing returns seems to make it very small. Tag without artemis is just as fast as artemis without tag. Net change for Darian, very little.

Dont get me wrong id like to see it changed but pgi wont do it.

[Roadkill]

Darian DelFord, on 27 January 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

Now if Artemis wants to work with streaks, No problems, however it needs to add the weight as well as the extra crit slots.

Artemis doesn't fully work with Streaks. The only thing it does is reduce lock time, it does not provide increased tracking power and does not reduce spread. So no, it shouldn't increase weight and crit slots.

[wanderer]

Artemis actually isn't supposed to work with Streaks at all. It's fundamentally incompatible with the Streak guidance system. The only reason it does in MWO is they couldn't be bothered with making separate lockon coding for LRMs and SSRMs.

[Roadkill]

wanderer, on 28 January 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

Artemis actually isn't supposed to work with Streaks at all. It's fundamentally incompatible with the Streak guidance system. The only reason it does in MWO is they couldn't be bothered with making separate lockon coding for LRMs and SSRMs.

Exactly.

So the correct answer is not to add in the weight and crits and apply them to a system that Artemis isn't supposed to affect, thus making the error even worse... the correct answer is to fix the bug.

[wanderer]

Yep. It is, and has been a perpetual bug in the system.

But as it doesn't result in some kind of missilegeddon, there isn't much priority to fixing it.

[cazidin]

Personally, and I know that this isn't how it works on TT, but I consider MWO's Artemis to be more of a software upgrade for Streak Missiles and if PGI ever fixes this bug then I hope they buff SSRMs to compensate. Light mechs beware!

[dario03]

Roadkill, on 28 January 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

Artemis doesn't fully work with Streaks. The only thing it does is reduce lock time, it does not provide increased tracking power and does not reduce spread. So no, it shouldn't increase weight and crit slots.

Artemis doesn't fully work with SRMs either. The only thing it does is reduce spread, it does not provide tracking power, and does not have a lock on time to affect. But yet, it does increase weight and crit slots.

[Khobai]

Quote

...I still wish that Streaks required some degree of actual aiming, which would both increase their skill floor and also address their weakness against heavy/assault targets.

Why? Streaks use the most sophisticated lostech targeting computer in the known universe. SO YOU DONT HAVE TO AIM THEM.

Although regular SRMs should have a primitive fly-by-wire guidance system and follow the cursor after you fire them. Because SRMs arnt supposed to be strictly dumbfire. Only MRMs and rockets are dumbfire.

But SRMs are never really gonna be viable weapons until they nerf the absurd ranges on these lasers weapons...

Edited by Khobai, 28 January 2016 - 07:20 PM.

[LordNothing]

you are better off carrying artemis srms because you at least have the option to get a pin point strike.

[Khobai]

Quote

you are better off carrying artemis srms because you at least have the option to get a pin point strike

youre better off not carrying srms at all if you want a pin point strike.

[LordNothing]

Khobai, on 28 January 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

youre better off not carrying srms at all if you want a pin point strike.

i have no problem landing all my asrms directly on the section i want to land them. an ac20 it is not, but its orders of magnitude better than the streaks are. streaks will hit but you have no control where.

[Ratpoison]

I see a lot of people crying for a fix to something that isn't a real problem, without offering a realistic solution to how to actually fix it in a way that works for mechs with both SSRMs and LRMs.