63 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

MWLL also made you have to earn your money during the match, and you lost all your cash when you died. You had to live for a while and score decently to get up to an assault. MWO lets you start with an assault every single match for free after you buy the mech once.

MWLL also reset your cash at the beginning of every single match, while MWO has permanent and persistent money. If MWLL let you carry money between matches, it would have broken the crap out of that system.

And a system similar to MWLL's (but somewhat different) is exactly what I propose MWO should have.

So what if it lets you start with an assault mech? In the system I propose your team loses tickets equal to the tonnage of the mech that dies. So if you die in an assault mech you just lost all those tickets. So the assault mech has an associated cost: a higher responsibility to your team of not carelessly dying.

Each team would start with like 6000 tickets. When a mech dies its respective team loses tickets equal to the mech's tonnage. The pilot then gets to respawn in one of their 4 chosen mechs. There would be 3 forward bases spread across the map, capturing a forward base would give you a new dropzone to spawn at (youd be able to select where you respawn), and controlling a forward base would also bleed the enemy team of tickets at a rate of 1 ticket per second or whatever. First team to run out of tickets would lose. Each team would also have a base they have to protect from being destroyed and destoying the enemy base would result in an immediate win.

Having forward bases also allows for MUCH bigger maps since assaults dont have to walk as far to get back to the frontline. Having much bigger maps also makes other roles like scouting more valid and important. And having a longer, more strategic gamemode opens up much more possibility for a command role as well.

Edited by Khobai, 28 January 2016 - 04:46 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 28 January 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

Lights should be worse than assaults at combat.

That's not true even for TT, 1v1 or otherwise.

[Wolfways]

I always hoped that CW would be a respawn mode with a ticket countdown like the Battlefield series (at least the ones I've played).
You die, your team loses tickets. You die in a big mech you lose more than dying in a small mech.

I personally don't see a reason for making all classes equal, or putting a weight limited drop deck in CW. If someone wants to play all assaults then they should be able to just as someone wanting to play all lights should be able to. Some players do better in certain mechs and forcing them to play something else is just hurting the team.

Also, lights are in no way inferior. In quick play I often see Firestarters, Arctic Cheetahs, and Jenners with the highest damage/match score. The other clan lights are inferior though because they don't get to have speedboat engines that IS lights should never have had in the first place imo.

[Spr1ggan]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 January 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

That's not true even for TT, 1v1 or otherwise.

Even in the lore, wasn't Phelan Kell rekin Clanners in heavier mechs with just a wolfhound prior to being captured?

Wolfways, on 28 January 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

I always hoped that CW would be a respawn mode with a ticket countdown like the Battlefield series (at least the ones I've played).
You die, your team loses tickets. You die in a big mech you lose more than dying in a small mech.

I personally don't see a reason for making all classes equal, or putting a weight limited drop deck in CW. If someone wants to play all assaults then they should be able to just as someone wanting to play all lights should be able to. Some players do better in certain mechs and forcing them to play something else is just hurting the team.

Also, lights are in no way inferior. In quick play I often see Firestarters, Arctic Cheetahs, and Jenners with the highest damage/match score. The other clan lights are inferior though because they don't get to have speedboat engines that IS lights should never have had in the first place imo.

Most players i see in lights barely scrape 200 damage a round. I struggle to get decent scores with lights in solo queue a lot of the time as well.

Can i get big scores? Sure. I have to play very well to do it though. Or the opfor has to be seriously bad.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 28 January 2016 - 04:51 PM.

[Wolfways]

Spr1ggan, on 28 January 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Most players i see in lights barely scrape 200 damage a round. I struggle to get decent scores with lights in solo queue a lot of the time as well.

Just had a match where the highest scorer was a Firestarter with 980+ (can't remember exact number) damage.
Maybe you are just better in other classes.
I rarely have a good damage score in lights because I play them more as scouts/spotters/strikers, and because I'm not good in lights. I also suck in Assaults. Mediums and heavies I do okay in though.

Quote

Can i get big scores? Sure. I have to play very well to do it though.

You could say that about any class though.

[Spr1ggan]

Wolfways, on 28 January 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Just had a match where the highest scorer was a Firestarter with 980+ (can't remember exact number) damage.
Maybe you are just better in other classes.
I rarely have a good damage score in lights because I play them more as scouts/spotters/strikers, and because I'm not good in lights. I also suck in Assaults. Mediums and heavies I do okay in though.


You could say that about any class though.

I've had plenty of 700 - 1000+ games in lights but what i was getting at is it's hard to do. You're in a mech that can be easily taken out in 1 shot if your opponents can aim well. Not to mention the weapons that don't require aiming skills. Streak 6 boats for example.

You are right though i'm not that good in them. I'm ok. But nothing compared to the dedicated light pilots on most comp teams. I have put a lot of time into each weight class over the years and imo lights are the hardest class to do well in.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 29 January 2016 - 01:18 PM.

[Wolfways]

Spr1ggan, on 28 January 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

I've had plenty of 700 - 1000+ games in lights but what i was getting at is it's hard to do. You're in a mech that can be easily be taken out in 1 shot if your opponents can aim well. Not mention the weapons that don't require aiming skills. Streak 6 boats for example.

You are right though i'm not that good in them. I'm ok. But nothing compared to the dedicated light pilots on most comp teams. I have put a lot of time into each weight class over the years and imo lights are the hardest class to do well in.

I have to put effort in to get that kind of score with any class (except the JM6-S with stock weapons), but I'm only T3
I'm sure I'm worst in assaults though. Well I can get more damage than in lights, but die much faster.

Also, imo it's meta that kills lights (and AC20...always bloody AC20... ). If you get them with a high alpha then you do some serious damage to a light, otherwise you can spend the whole match chipping the armour off them. They are so annoying when played well.
Also, as I recently found out, they have enough firepower to 1-shot heavy mechs with 10 rear armour

Edited by Wolfways, 28 January 2016 - 05:18 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Even in the lore, wasn't Phelan Kell rekin Clanners in heavier mechs with just a wolfhound prior to being captured

um no. he got captured and turned into a little slave b*tch.

all because he didnt pilot something heavier.

[InspectorG]

Adiuvo, on 28 January 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Maybe in the kiddie queue this is true, but anywhere else...

Lights got the short end of the stick on the most recent pass. The skill adjustment nerfs them more than anything else since it was percent based, they didn't receive meaningful quirks like every other weight class, and the whole design issue that's plagued the game since day one still is there.

^This.

I was expecting lights to be able to dance around the fatties. Skill nerf for agility should have a different basis for lights, particularly the under 35ers.

Heat sink problems. Lazors by default unless its an Oxide. No meaningful 'infotech'. etc etc etc.

Am slightly dissapoint at the Jenner llc as well.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 28 January 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

MWLL also made you have to earn your money during the match, and you lost all your cash when you died. You had to live for a while and score decently to get up to an assault. MWO lets you start with an assault every single match for free after you buy the mech once.

MWLL also reset your cash at the beginning of every single match, while MWO has permanent and persistent money. If MWLL let you carry money between matches, it would have broken the crap out of that system.

Didn't you also earn more from shooting Heavier mechs with your Lighter mech? Or was it you made less by shooting Lights with Heavier things?

[Trauglodyte]

I admittedly am not the best killer of Light mechs. But, it sure seems to me like the Arctic Cheetah is nothing more than a Clan version of the original Spider release. As for people complaining about heat management on a Light mech, nobody said that you had to alpha every salvo. Maybe hold back and play the heat game like everyone else?

[CDLord HHGD]

A thought occurs...

What IS chassis/variant gets the MOST hardpoints?

Make that the basis for all the IS mechs. Now, I am not saying give everything that many hardpoints, but give them an equivalent buff to compensate for the fewer hardpoints.

What those could be, idk, but it would put them on a comparative equal footing.

Apply the same equation to Clan mechs though they will have a different base number than IS.

Edited by cdlord, 29 January 2016 - 11:40 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

cdlord, on 29 January 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

What IS chassis/variant gets the MOST hardpoints?

Firestarter at 8 weapon hardpoints, 9 if you count AMS.

[CDLord HHGD]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 January 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

Firestarter at 8 weapon hardpoints, 9 if you count AMS.

Should we? I don't think so since it cannot do damage to another mech. AMS starved mechs could gain one as a comp measure though.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

cdlord, on 29 January 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

Should we? I don't think so since it cannot do damage to another mech. AMS starved mechs could gain one as a comp measure though.

I wouldn't but judging from these forums, people think AMS is worth it, so *shrug*

[CDLord HHGD]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 January 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

I wouldn't but judging from these forums, people think AMS is worth it, so *shrug*

So what quirks/module slots/etc do you think make up for a hardpoint? I know if a mech has ECM that it'd get one less module slot.....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

cdlord, on 29 January 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

So what quirks/module slots/etc do you think make up for a hardpoint? I know if a mech has ECM that it'd get one less module slot.....

It honestly depends, obviously you have to push it to have higher DPS since it is naturally going to have less of an alpha. So I would go with cooldown/heat gen with maybe some minor range quirks. I know people hated the Huginn during its heydey, but that is pretty much the only way to actually make mechs like that viable by being able to spam things.

[CDLord HHGD]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 January 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

It honestly depends, obviously you have to push it to have higher DPS since it is naturally going to have less of an alpha. So I would go with cooldown/heat gen with maybe some minor range quirks. I know people hated the Huginn during its heydey, but that is pretty much the only way to actually make mechs like that viable by being able to spam things.

I'm very much a "nerf all the things" type player to bring weapons into line with each other and keep TTK moderate. But anymore, "buff all the things" to parity and if TTK is too low, they'll just double armor/structure again or more....

What about a quick agility "set" for one hardpoint? Or 15% of weapon quirks equals one hardpoint (that 15% would be split up between range/heat/cooldown.... Heck, let the players tweak it ourselves. Put all 15% to one aspect or...

I think I will make a new thread.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

cdlord, on 29 January 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

I'm very much a "nerf all the things" type player to bring weapons into line with each other and keep TTK moderate. But anymore, "buff all the things" to parity and if TTK is too low, they'll just double armor/structure again or more....

What about a quick agility "set" for one hardpoint? Or 15% of weapon quirks equals one hardpoint (that 15% would be split up between range/heat/cooldown.... Heck, let the players tweak it ourselves. Put all 15% to one aspect or...

I think I will make a new thread.

There is only so much agility can help with unless you really want to deal with stutter stepping lights all over the place. I don't mind some agility quirks, but weapons should still be one of the goto options for hardpoint starved lights (with durability to overcome not being a 35 tonner or bad hitboxes).

[CDLord HHGD]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 January 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

There is only so much agility can help with unless you really want to deal with stutter stepping lights all over the place. I don't mind some agility quirks, but weapons should still be one of the goto options for hardpoint starved lights (with durability to overcome not being a 35 tonner or bad hitboxes).

Well, not just HP starved lights. I envision this something that can be applied universally. The more hardpoints you have, the fewer overall quicks you will have when compared to other mechs with fewer hardpoints. I'm collating data now.