26 replies to this topic

[Mathium]

With all the talk of cheats, 3rd party programs, and banning accounts; is Fire Ctrl considered one of those programs that can lead to losing your account. Back before I upgraded my OS I used it for the ability to set a toggle for TAG. But if it is suspect it's staying uninstalled.

[Dagorlad13]

Personally, I think that using macros are unsportsmanlike, but I believe that in MWO they are considered in a gray area, so you should probably email support about it.

Edited by IronClaws, 30 January 2016 - 03:08 PM.

[Darwins Dog]

It's not a gray area at all. They are allowed by the CoC. A macro doesn't let you do anything that you couldn't otherwise do. You can tape a key down to toggle TAG on or off, and you can click a fire group really fast to get rapid fire with ACs or UACs.

Since lots of mice and keyboards come with macro capabilities, they really can't ban them. Like it or not it's a part of gaming these days.

The 3rd party programs that Russ was warning about were things like wallhacks and aimbots. They let you do things that you couldn't otherwise do.

[M T]

Probably gonna hurt you more than it will do any good

[Ironically Ironclad Irony]

Watched my team lose once because a king crab blew the last of him ammo when he hit his macro accidentally...

I agree, you will find it more gratifying in the long run to learn to do things w/o macros or FC and thereby learn control and management...

[Dagorlad13]

Darwins Dog, on 30 January 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

It's not a gray area at all. They are allowed by the CoC. A macro doesn't let you do anything that you couldn't otherwise do. You can tape a key down to toggle TAG on or off, and you can click a fire group really fast to get rapid fire with ACs or UACs.

I only consider macros unsportsmanlike because they allow you to press keys faster than you (most likely) could physically.

Ironically Ironclad Irony, on 30 January 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

Watched my team lose once because a king crab blew the last of him ammo when he hit his macro accidentally...

I agree, you will find it more gratifying in the long run to learn to do things w/o macros or FC and thereby learn control and management...

A mistake can cost a match regardless of what macros or programs you are using.

[Ironically Ironclad Irony]

We all make mistakes but if it is a mistake of automation, these are avoidable...

[CheetoChrome]

I think that people who try to attach the label of "Cheater" to those who use things like simple macros, or even in-game modules that they don't like (seismic, rasar derp, etc.) are only diluting the shame and stigma that should be attached to REAL cheating.

They are always doing this for selfish reasons too. They don't like some feature because a/ it doesn't help them in THEIR preferred mech or playstyle. Or b/ It somehow prevents them from killing other mechs as easily as they wish they could with their particular build/playstyle.

Using a simple button macro, or taking advantage of the "signal jammed" message to warn you of an approaching mech you can't see is not the same thing as using an aim bot, or whatever other hack programs the insecure scum who cheat like to use...

We should avoid conflating the two.

[evilC]

Numerous people reported my Fire Control thread to the moderators.
Every single time it was deemed OK.

Also, FC hitting keys faster than you could do physically is *still* not a cheat in terms of MWO - the weapons are in the game in a form where you could not hit fire fast enough to max out 4xAC2 in chain fire, and the game itself does not do chain fire properly (ie fire rate of one weapon divided by the number of weapons) so FC is only allowing you to do something that you *should* be able to do without macros.
The plain fact of the matter is that chain fire is no better than alpha, and is arguably worse. It's more about the Lulz.

It's better that there are tools freely available so that everyone can do it, rather than only people with coding knowledge or fancy mice with programming software.

[JanosRide]

in my opinion any mod in a game is cheat the weapon jamed for programin game is part to strategic game change this is cheat

[Svarn Lornon]

Actually it doesn't do anything to the jam-chance of UACs, they jam just as often as without a macrotool. Personally I also use fire control in my 4 UAC5 mauler. Probably it's smarter to just go for 20 pinpoint damage instead , but it's just so much fun to spew bullets out of the thing That is if not suddenly all 4 are jammed right in front of another mech

JanosRide, on 16 February 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

in my opinion any mod in a game is cheat the weapon jamed for programin game is part to strategic game change this is cheat

[Padre Balistique]

Svarn Lornon, on 16 February 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

Actually it doesn't do anything to the jam-chance of UACs, they jam just as often as without a macrotool. Personally I also use fire control in my 4 UAC5 mauler. Probably it's smarter to just go for 20 pinpoint damage instead , but it's just so much fun to spew bullets out of the thing That is if not suddenly all 4 are jammed right in front of another mech

How the heck did you even understand him.

[Gaussfather]

Hi Mathium,

I asked PGI's support about FireCtrl last year and was told its not an issue/cheating. Personally I only use it for tag and zoom functions (i.e. the roller) with my mouse. I like to fast fire my UACs and sometimes jam them... its just part of the game.

So have fun and don't stress over it.

[Mystere]

Grey area? What kind of misinformation is this? The CoC clearly states that the use of macros is allowed.

[evilC]

Don't the UACs only jam if you try to use the double-shot?

If this is the case, FC could eliminate the chance of them jamming, but only by stopping you from using the double shot (ie enable "Limit fire rate to specified rate" in FC).
You could then use the "Change Fire Rate" binding to double the fire rate, thus enabling double-shot mode.
In this way, you could have control over when you use double-shot - you must be in the "Double rate" mode to use double shot. When not in "Double rate" mode, even if you hit the button quicker, it would ignore the button press, so even if you get a little trigger happy when in single shot mode, it would protect you from unintentionally triggering the double-shot of the UACs and incurring a chance of a jam.

[Svarn Lornon]

Lot's of guessing on my part And I know in the past it was actually possible to time the UACs that way that they wouldn't jam even when double tapping (as far as I know).

Padre Balistique, on 16 February 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

How the heck did you even understand him.

[BrianZX2]

Are all laws just? The COC saying its legal doesn't mean its not a cheat it just means its a cheat they don't care you use. FireControl does something for you that you as a normal human playing MWO can't do so its a cheat. Whether that is to precisely control your rate of fire to avoid jams or to always hold on a button it is a capability that the developers haven't included in the game. Two mechs build exactly the same, one using FireControl the other not, the FireControl user will almost always win that fight. What this does is require everyone use FireControl or else be at a disadvantage yet it is not a feature included in the game. The definition of cheat according to Websters is to: "Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination". So by this definition because FireControl is not part of the game it is unfair to those not aware or unwilling to use this macro. The only way its not a cheat is if everyone has the ability to control their Mech as FireControl does which would mean including it in the game. So until the devs add FireControl features as default its a cheat.

[Mystere]

BrianZX2, on 18 February 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

Are all laws just? The COC saying its legal doesn't mean its not a cheat it just means its a cheat they don't care you use.

This is a video game, not the International Criminal Court in The Hague. If PGI says macros are allowed, then they are. Anything else is just being stubborn.

[BrianZX2]

Mystere, on 18 February 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

This is a video game, not the International Criminal Court in The Hague. If PGI says macros are allowed, then they are. Anything else is just being stubborn.

Good to know mech players know how to think for themselves. Thanks for bringing up a moot point. Please read my whole post because I don't dispute the utility or legitimacy of FireControl my problem with it is that its a 3rd party tool.

Edited by BrianZX2, 18 February 2016 - 03:04 PM.

[Mystere]

BrianZX2, on 18 February 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

Good to know mech players know how to think for themselves. Thanks for bringing up a moot point. Please read my whole post because I don't dispute the utility or legitimacy of FireControl my problem with it is that its a 3rd party tool.

So are Teamspeak 3 and Thrustmaster's TARGET. Should they be banned too?