83 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Duke Nedo, on 31 January 2016 - 11:49 PM, said:

Oh dear, sorry, was just attentionhoing and tried to be witty, thought it was obvious.

I'd recommend a large Comic Sans edit to the "I wish" statement, something like size 24

Maybe larger. Also bold and underlined.
You don't want people to miss sarcasm on the interwebz.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 01 February 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

I'd recommend a large Comic Sans edit to the "I wish" statement, something like size 24

Maybe larger. Also bold and underlined.
You don't want people to miss sarcasm on the interwebz.

I wish Paul (name) had a clue (descriptive description) on balancing mechs like the Vindicator (poorly balanced mech).

Edited by Deathlike, 01 February 2016 - 12:18 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

Mcgral18, on 01 February 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

I'd recommend a large Comic Sans edit to the "I wish" statement, something like size 24

Maybe larger. Also bold and underlined.
You don't want people to miss sarcasm on the interwebz.

Edited, sarcasm that works spoken doesn't always do the trick on the internets...

[MischiefSC]

Most TW builds are picking up 8%. With 6 CERMLs that's less than 3 pts for a full alpha.

The perception of the nerfs is way more relevant than the actual nerfs. The vast majority of players wouldn't be able to tell the difference if it wasn't announced.

It'll matter in comp play but for pug queue and CW? All you'll see is more people taking more lasers and hopefully being a little more brave.

Gamers and their lucky feathers.

[C E Dwyer]

I think P.G.I have completely lost it.

They make quirks for IS mechs they don't work.
They give Clan Mechs Negative quirks still isn't enough.
They give IS mechs even bigger quirks.. it kind of works..
They change the IS quirks and give under performing Clan mech Positive quirks. it makes IS more durable..

All the Units with a high number of Comp level players leave Clan and go IS...


They take all the negative quirks off of Clan mechs...


Utterly Utterly Clueless when it comes to balancing a game..

[Luminis]

Well, the negative quirks might go, but the changes to HeatSinks stay, the lowered range on Clan lasers stays, the locked equipment stays and many of the IS quirks that created competition for the Timber Wolf will stay as well.

The A-LT operated in a different environment back thgen, so unnerfing it is not necessarily a sign of power creep. I think it's mostly that there's more competition at the higher tiers of 'Mechs now. Still, the TBR, from my experience, is an exceptionally strong chassis as is. I can absolutely understand wanting to get rid of negative quirks - nerfing stuff like that usually feels bad to the player, I suppose.

Doing that at the same time as reworking the IS energy range quirks, nerfing of the Blackjack and rescaling of some IS chassis (most likely with nerfs to their structure quirks following the rescaling/remodeling), it might have been a wiser approach to see how those changes play out first.

Edited by Luminis, 01 February 2016 - 01:58 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Luminis, on 01 February 2016 - 01:57 AM, said:

Well, the negative quirks might go, but the changes to HeatSinks stay, the lowered range on Clan lasers stays, the locked equipment stays and many of the IS quirks that created competition for the Timber Wolf will stay as well.

The A-LT operated in a different environment back thgen, so unnerfing it is not necessarily a sign of power creep. I think it's mostly that there's more competition at the higher tiers of 'Mechs now. Still, the TBR, from my experience, is an exceptionally strong chassis as is. I can absolutely understand wanting to get rid of negative quirks - nerfing stuff like that usually feels bad to the player, I suppose.

Doing that at the same time as reworking the IS energy range quirks, nerfing of the Blackjack and rescaling of some IS chassis (most likely with nerfs to their structure quirks following the rescaling/remodeling), it might have been a wiser approach to see how those changes play out first.

This..

Its always the damn Brick hammer with P.G.I. never the Scalpel

[Nightmare1]

El Bandito, on 31 January 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

Which is why I am also advocating IS quirk nerfs. The power bar should be lowered across the board.

IS nerfs are okay by me. I may be showing a Clan tag, but I'm actually a solid IS player who hardly ever plays Clan. My Unit rotates between the two though to satisfy our pilots who only play Clan.

Personally speaking, the lack of customization of the Clan OmniMechs has frustrated me for a while now. Unlocking them will not make them overpowered and should have already been done. I'd almost rather see the negative Clan nerfs remain in exchange for a chassis unlock.

As for power goes, I haven't noticed my TTK changing over the last year. I still last about the same amount of time in a fight. I think what most people are forgetting to realize, is that in a 1v1, TTK is actually pretty decent. It's only in a group fight that it is low, and only then because of focus firing. There's nothing you can really do about focus firing either. It's a viable tactic. It kills quickly. It makes you think TTK is too short. However, if you go duel someone, you'll realize that TTK really isn't all that bad.

The problem with lowering the power bar as an attempt to address TTK w.r.t group focus firing, is that it breaks solo combat. Think about it. What's good for solo TTK is bad for group TTK. What's good for group TTK is bad for solo TTK. The balance between individual Mechs right now feels pretty good to me. I feel confident solo'ing just about any Mech of the same weight class that I want in an even exchange. However, if the power bar were lowered to try to nerf group tactics, then solo combat would be reduced to clubbing each other with pillows.

Frankly, I think that the power bar should be left alone and that pilots should just recognize that when you're group-fired, there's not much you can do. They should learn better group tactics themselves as well as shield and use cover more effectively. I ran Assaults over the weekend, specifically my BLRs, and was focused quite often by enemy Mechs. I recognize that it's frustrating, but that's just part of the game, and there's nothing wrong with it. I didn't let my TTK drop too low by insisting on powering through a withering wall of fire though. I'd tank, shielding while exchanging fire as best I could, and then rotate out with another member of my team. This spread the damage between multiple Mechs on my team by making it difficult for the enemy to focus fire for any length of time. I also used whatever cover was available, however scant it may be, (Ex: Cables in the center of Terra Therma) to break my enemies' line of fire and give myself a reprieve occasionally. As a result, my TTK was close to what it normally is in a Medium Mech, I still had a high damage output, and my team was still winning.

All that to say, it's not the weapons of Mechs that are the problem; it's the players. Instead of lowering the bar to make it easier for the less tactical players, thereby ruining the solo puggers or the solo duelists, we should challenge players to better themselves by improving their skills, joining Units, and learning better tactics.

[Khobai]

Quote

I personally do not like even shorter TTK in this game and wishes to tone down the already strong mechs so there won't have too much power difference between them and the underdog.

Obviously we need longer TTK. The whole reason Lights and Mediums struggle is because a Heavy can just LOL laserspam them to death in 2-3 alphas.

They need to massively nerf lasers and laser quirks to start with.

Quote

I think P.G.I have completely lost it.

They make quirks for IS mechs they don't work.
They give Clan Mechs Negative quirks still isn't enough.
They give IS mechs even bigger quirks.. it kind of works..
They change the IS quirks and give under performing Clan mech Positive quirks. it makes IS more durable..

All the Units with a high number of Comp level players leave Clan and go IS...


They take all the negative quirks off of Clan mechs...


Utterly Utterly Clueless when it comes to balancing a game..

You forgot the fact they completely nerfed assaults into the ground while trying to nerf heavies too. Which defeated the whole point since heavies are still comparatively better.

Edited by Khobai, 01 February 2016 - 05:37 AM.

[El Bandito]

Nightmare1, on 01 February 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

The problem with lowering the power bar as an attempt to address TTK w.r.t group focus firing, is that it breaks solo combat. Think about it. What's good for solo TTK is bad for group TTK. What's good for group TTK is bad for solo TTK. The balance between individual Mechs right now feels pretty good to me. I feel confident solo'ing just about any Mech of the same weight class that I want in an even exchange. However, if the power bar were lowered to try to nerf group tactics, then solo combat would be reduced to clubbing each other with pillows.

See, you are trying to take extreme examples. We are not talking about nerfing those mechs to the ground. Far be it. We are trying to set the bar low enough for even the underdogs to have a chance, without juicing them up with hyper quirks. Hyper quirks are harming this game, more than helping it. All because the bar is set high, and is getting higher. As with all things, quirks need to be in moderation.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 February 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 31 January 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

It used to be that Timberwolf-A was this unimaginably strong beast that had to be nerfed before it reached live servers, and then nerfed again. Now it seems to PGI that, Timbie-A is completely fine to stay in unnerfed form. Isn't it a clear indication that the power bar had shifted even higher? I personally do not like even shorter TTK in this game and wishes to tone down the already strong mechs so there won't have too much power difference between them and the underdog.

100% agree here.

Shorten TTK even more, another bad decision by pgi.

[Tier 1 Smurf]

Ultimatum X, on 31 January 2016 - 08:56 PM, said:

The TBR-A LT was a mega-nerf based on complete hysteria.

It makes the TBR's (zero structure quirk) ST hitbox even larger than it is.


Yeah, it's nice to have some higher mounts - but they are also bigger targets and you're limited to poking with 3 weapons unless you expose the rest of your torso.


Its going to be a good choice, but it was never the game collapsing catastrophe people made it out to be.

^ this.

It was prenerfed before it even did anything.

[El Bandito]

Tier 1 Smurf, on 01 February 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

^ this.

It was prenerfed before it even did anything.

Which I have mentioned in the OP. Even with the pre-nerf, it was still too strong in that time's meta, that it was nerfed yet again.

[Tier 1 Smurf]

El Bandito, on 01 February 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

Which I have mentioned in the OP. Even with the pre-nerf, it was still too strong in that time's meta, that it was nerfed yet again.

No it wasn't.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Why do people hate JJ on Madcats... it's incredibly useful.

[Rushin Roulette]

pbiggz, on 31 January 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

1 point of armor is removed by 1 point of damage

Actually to correct this. Armour in MWO is doubled. So you need 2 damage per 1 point if armour.

Other than that your post is correct. Well set up and disciplined teams get through with little damage per kill because they are not spreading the damage across the whole enemy mech. Kills are either centre torso or legs, every other component should be either undamaged or minimally damaged at the end of a kill if everything goes to plan.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 01 February 2016 - 07:19 AM.

[El Bandito]

LegendaryArticuno, on 01 February 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

Why do people hate JJ on Madcats... it's incredibly useful.

Yep, there are tons of people who use Timbie-S CT, or Timbie-S RT just to have some additional mobility.

[xWiredx]

Unnerfed? OP means unquirked. The negative quirks being removed does not mean it hasn't still been nerfed. It definitely has. Clans get ghost heat with less ERLL, clans have way longer laser burn times, clans have locked jump jets that could have been a heatsink if only that ton and extra slot were freed... such impressive superior technology!

On the other side, IS still gets to keep most of the quirks and all they're losing is a bit of range. How tragic.

[Gyrok]

El Bandito, on 31 January 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

It used to be that Timberwolf-A was this unimaginably strong beast that had to be nerfed before it reached live servers, and then nerfed again. Now it seems to PGI that, Timbie-A is completely fine to stay in unnerfed form. Isn't it a clear indication that the power bar had shifted even higher? I personally do not like even shorter TTK in this game and wishes to tone down the already strong mechs so there won't have too much power difference between them and the underdog.

TTK is fine for IS mechs with +10-12 structure across the board, and tons of nifty quirks.

TTK for clans who, are now 20% slower when lose ST (killing all sword/board builds instantly), already run hotter than a blast furnace but have nerfed CDHS, get no structure quirks of any kind, get no mobility quirks to compensate for skill tree nerf, and had range nerfed on their smallest energy weapons dramatically (while IS got quirks to improve all that on their end)...is dramatically lower now.

Yeah...TTK for clans is a ***** right now. TTK for IS is probably the longest it has been since they first doubled armor back in CB. IS is OP...

Ultimatum X, on 31 January 2016 - 08:56 PM, said:

The TBR-A LT was a mega-nerf based on complete hysteria.

It makes the TBR's (zero structure quirk) ST hitbox even larger than it is.


Yeah, it's nice to have some higher mounts - but they are also bigger targets and you're limited to poking with 3 weapons unless you expose the rest of your torso.


Its going to be a good choice, but it was never the game collapsing catastrophe people made it out to be.

My god...this is the most truth in this entire freaking thread...this is basically what 90% of the clan nerfs were...hysteria over BS that was all in people's mind. Like the EBJ that was "too low stance" before anyone even saw the damn thing in game...

Think about that..No one ever got to play the EBJ in the original intended stance because people wanted to ***** about it being OP before anyone even got to play it yet.

Edited by Gyrok, 01 February 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[Davegt27]

El bandito is breaking the rules

You’re not supposed to cry until things happen not before

They have other ways to nerf stuff so would not worry too much