233 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

pbiggz, on 01 February 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

I work at a zoo. Do not question my bear knowledge.

Michael!!!!!

[Unreliable Mercenary]

Looks amazing. Day one pre-order from me.

[Zolaz]

Why does the melee Kodiak have higher hard points than the Atlas?

[Jalthibuster]

Anyone noticed that it has like an unused hard point bay door over the UAC like one under the single SRM where should be a 2nd S-SRM6 by lore? So maybe it has a 2nd ballistic hard point.

[wanderer]

pbiggz, on 01 February 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

You underestimate the amount of work that would have to go into melee. Do light mechs punch lighter than assaults? Do they take structure damage when they punch? What are the ranges? What damage do they do? What happens to components in the arm? What about mechs that dont have fists? How much damage do they do?

Let's see.

1) Of course they do. Let's review this. Punches do Mech tonnage/10 in damage, kicks do tonnage/5.
2) Nope. You're thinking of charging/death from above.

3) Effectively point-blank, but if you're hugging a target, that's why you're putting the boot/fist in.

4) See 2).

5) Each upper or lower actuator missing from a limb halves the damage of a punch, though not the hand. Damage to the shoulder actuator prevents a punch entirely. So a Kodiak with a full set of actuators punches for 10. If it lacked the hand, still 10. Missing the lower actuator? 5 damage. Missing lower AND upper? 2.5 damage. Punching without a hand actuator is a bit more awkward, though (in MWO, longer cooldown).

[Gigastrike]

Jalthibuster, on 01 February 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

Anyone noticed that it has like an unused hard point bay door over the UAC like one under the single SRM where should be a 2nd S-SRM6 by lore? So maybe it has a 2nd ballistic hard point.

The Kodiak 3 does.

[Imperius]

wanderer, on 01 February 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

Let's see.

1) Of course they do. Let's review this. Punches do Mech tonnage/10 in damage, kicks do tonnage/5.
2) Nope. You're thinking of charging/death from above.

3) Effectively point-blank, but if you're hugging a target, that's why you're putting the boot/fist in.

4) See 2).

5) Each upper or lower actuator missing from a limb halves the damage of a punch, though not the hand. Damage to the shoulder actuator prevents a punch entirely. So a Kodiak with a full set of actuators punches for 10. If it lacked the hand, still 10. Missing the lower actuator? 5 damage. Missing lower AND upper? 2.5 damage. Punching without a hand actuator is a bit more awkward, though (in MWO, longer cooldown).

QFT

[pbiggz]

wanderer, on 01 February 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

Let's see.

1) Of course they do. Let's review this. Punches do Mech tonnage/10 in damage, kicks do tonnage/5.
2) Nope. You're thinking of charging/death from above.

3) Effectively point-blank, but if you're hugging a target, that's why you're putting the boot/fist in.

4) See 2).

5) Each upper or lower actuator missing from a limb halves the damage of a punch, though not the hand. Damage to the shoulder actuator prevents a punch entirely. So a Kodiak with a full set of actuators punches for 10. If it lacked the hand, still 10. Missing the lower actuator? 5 damage. Missing lower AND upper? 2.5 damage. Punching without a hand actuator is a bit more awkward, though (in MWO, longer cooldown).

There's going to be more to it than that. ALOT more to it. But you're not a game designer. I can tell, you don't think like them. Good thing its not your call.

[Jalthibuster]

Gigastrike, on 01 February 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

The Kodiak 3 does.

Yes, but the 2 LBX-20 wouldn't fit into the same torso, so it would have the 2nd hard point elsewhere...and it's from mid 3060.

[GreenHell]

Jalthibuster, on 01 February 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Yes, but the 2 LBX-20 wouldn't fit into the same torso, so it would have the 2nd hard point elsewhere...and it's from mid 3060.

The LBX-20's are mounted one on either side torso for the KDK-3. Try "Solaris Skunk Werks" (SSW) to see what the TableTop builds are for mechs, since sarna doesn't list the actual builds.

[Nightshade24]

Frosty Brand, on 01 February 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Tbh a 20 ton battle armor was just too make it work in that game. If, and I stress if pgi had the programming ability, they could make melee work much better and more balanced easily. But there are more pressing issues before they even look at that, and tbh we probably won't see melee till cw phase 4 and/or hbs bt building the model and animations for a hatcherMan and/or axe man.

20 ton battle armour? You really do not know much about them do you?



That's the elemental, 1 ton battle armour.
Far far far smaller than a 20 ton battle mech. Battle armour stretch from 1-3 tons.

That out of the way... the main issues I see with melee is the current collision status and animation... if it won't be a jab like in MW4. than we have a nightmare of an animation problem and need to work on making it look serious... there is so many ways it could go wrong and turn the serious look of MW: O- a battle tech game, into something that looks like a gundam anime brawl game.... All that animation time will clog up a lot of work... however Russ is hinting it may happen.


Twitter:

00MEAT: @russ bullock So does this mean we will be getting melee now?

Russ Bullock: No sorry not yet

-------------------------------


5Mirkeh: @russ_bullock @Th3b33f It's kind of a shame that those colossal battlebot spikes will never be used for melee in the arenas of Solaris VIl

Russ Bullock: never say never



So yea... with the Crytek engine thing coming up to change. I think russ is cooking something up...

[Nightshade24]

wanderer, on 01 February 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

If that's your idea of melee, I can see why you're soiling yourself at the concept.

BA's that weigh as much as a friggin Locust with a melee attack equivalent to a Centurion kick or even better than the proverbial Hatchetman hatchet or an Atlas punch? On a two second cooldown? That's about as much "Battletech" as Mobile Suit Gundam.

In that game the Melee had one of the highest damage- only way to surpass it is with artilly (Arrow, long tom, etc). With also a high "rate of fire", so it would be enough to leg an atlas in less than 6 seconds to put it to perspective in MW4 terms... and this is a game were their PPC's reload 4 times longer than in MW: O as well as the AC 2 in MW4 having the same firerate of the AC 10 in MW: O... a bit longer.

Also you have no idea what the BA tonnage is do you? Most BA are 1 ton, not 20 tons. Some are 2 and 3 tons. 17 tons lighter than a locust, and the damage of a BA isn't equivilant of a Centurion. It's greater than the punch of an Atlas or a kick of a centurion (as those have no modified stats. Dealing damage with 'no weapon', meanwhile the BA claw is a devestating anti mech weapon on a BA.) and unlike a fist of an atlas- the battle claw is designed specifically to punch holes into mechs or rip their armour of.
Now when you bring the story of the Hatchet man in, That unlike the atlas of centurions (foot... yea. ignore some of the centurions hatchets... lets use the foot for example) the Hatchet man has a weapon. The damage depends how much weight is behind it... so it is possible to have some hatchets in BT to do less damage than a few BA BC's... the flip side however is when you add weight behind that hatchet it can do quite a bit more damage. In some cases ripping parts of lighter mechs in just a swing or two.

BA is the closest to melee we have gotten and it was very effective for the job. I think I used to run a salamander with 2 BA flamers and 2 BC's and I just ripped mechs to shred unless it out ran me.

[BD RAIDR]

Liking the concept art!

I really hope the modelers keep the upper part of the arms short so the forearms are reasonably high.

[Imperius]

F6Pete, on 01 February 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

Liking the concept art!

I really hope the modelers keep the upper part of the arms short so the forearms are reasonably high.

Yes, I'll be on the lookout

[BD RAIDR]

As soon as they release the orthographic... We pounce!

[Imperius]

F6Pete, on 01 February 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

As soon as they release the orthographic... We pounce!

I complained as did others about gorilla arm DOA, hence why I think the concept has them the way they do and I already tweeted about it.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Imperius, on 01 February 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

I complained as did others about gorilla arm DOA, hence why I think the concept has them the way they do and I already tweeted about it.

Those arms are going to be good for shielding.

[Nightshade24]

Zolaz, on 01 February 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

Why does the melee Kodiak have higher hard points than the Atlas?

because we do not have a melee kodiak?

Jalthibuster, on 01 February 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

Anyone noticed that it has like an unused hard point bay door over the UAC like one under the single SRM where should be a 2nd S-SRM6 by lore? So maybe it has a 2nd ballistic hard point.

I think that's a concept art misshap, however if we look at the variants we can easily see some will get more hardpoints...

Kodiak 1 has 11 hardpoints... kodiak 3 has 6. So we can easily see a ballistics inflation on both side torso..
kodiak 2 has same hardpoints as kodiak 1 with half the lasers and missiles but JJ... so we can see a missile/ ballistic inflation here.
Also hero mech has MASC and 7 hardpoints... anyone got a good guess what hero will be like? all we know is it's apparently a good brawler.

Jalthibuster, on 01 February 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Yes, but the 2 LBX-20 wouldn't fit into the same torso, so it would have the 2nd hard point elsewhere...and it's from mid 3060.

Doesn't matter, Russ stated they are thinking about lossening the rules to apply by tech and not introduction, So nearly all kodiak variants could be added... as well as mad cat II....

GreenHell, on 01 February 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

The LBX-20's are mounted one on either side torso for the KDK-3. Try "Solaris Skunk Werks" (SSW) to see what the TableTop builds are for mechs, since sarna doesn't list the actual builds.

Solaris Skunk werks never worked for me and when I got a friend to use it him and I struggled to use it...

[Imperius]

Nightshade24, on 01 February 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

because we do not have a melee kodiak?

I think that's a concept art misshap, however if we look at the variants we can easily see some will get more hardpoints...

Kodiak 1 has 11 hardpoints... kodiak 3 has 6. So we can easily see a ballistics inflation on both side torso..
kodiak 2 has same hardpoints as kodiak 1 with half the lasers and missiles but JJ... so we can see a missile/ ballistic inflation here.
Also hero mech has MASC and 7 hardpoints... anyone got a good guess what hero will be like? all we know is it's apparently a good brawler.

Doesn't matter, Russ stated they are thinking about lossening the rules to apply by tech and not introduction, So nearly all kodiak variants could be added... as well as mad cat II....


Solaris Skunk werks never worked for me and when I got a friend to use it him and I struggled to use it...

I'm hoping out of the next 3 1off clan mechs the Mad Cat MK II is one of them and I can start crusade for the Blood Asp

[Damocles]

Ah the 2nd SRM-6 is visible on the far side of the CT bulge.