33 replies to this topic

[Draggs]

So far I am doing OK with my build I think but was wanting any suggestions on improvements. the idea is to keep a absolute consistent stream of missiles to target... at the moment using the 4 LRM10's grouped with continuous fire, seems to create micro pauses in launching (for example when holding down the fire group I get: Fire, fire, pause, fire, fire, fire fire, pause, fire, fire pause... I was wondering if any one has a remedy to combat this. I work with my clan for locking, so losing lock and wasting missiles, is combated via communication with scouts and target calling.

So:
how can I negate the firing pause?
Any tips on the build?

Link to build:
http://images.akamai...577FE9799D2467/

[The Mecha Streisand]

Ditch the 10s for 5s. Or spend the Cbills and GXP for the LRM-10 cooldown module.

Dat build tho. Needs more help than I can offer via iPhone from work. TOO SLOW. TOO LITTLE ARMOR. If even a mildly aware light pilot in a stock Commando finds it, you're through.

Also, WELCOME ABOARD!

There will be some incredibly helpful posts coming soon, from some super-friendly folks!

[mailin]

The Mecha Streisand, on 01 February 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

Ditch the 10s for 5s. Or spend the Cbills and GXP for the LRM-10 cooldown module.

Dat build tho. Needs more help than I can offer via iPhone from work. TOO SLOW. TOO LITTLE ARMOR. If even a mildly aware light pilot in a stock Commando finds it, you're through.

Also, WELCOME ABOARD!

There will be some incredibly helpful posts coming soon, from some super-friendly folks!

Yeah, agree about the build problems. First, get an XL for that bad boy. 'Pults take XLs very well. Second, load lrm 5s instead of 10s. (Personally, on 5s I don't like artemis. Lose that and you lose a LOT of weight.) Third, ditch FF for Endo. More weight savings. Fourth, MORE ARMOR!!! You need to maximize your armor to the best of your ability. Also, put your AMS ammo in your head and move as much ammo as you can OUT of your arms. If you can throw in a jump jet or two. If you need to shave a little bit of armor, take it off the head first.

Good luck and hope this helps. And just an FYI, if you drop in this build against a competent light pilot, may God have mercy on your soul, cause you'll see him soon.

Edited by mailin, 01 February 2016 - 07:03 PM.

[segeri9]

to answer your question regarding the micro pauses though.... did you by chance open your missile bay doors? if not, press (default) "/" key to open them.

[Flu-Epidemic]

Point to note: did you open the bay doors prior to launching the LRMs? To do so, hit the "/" key to open the bay doors. The reason why the lag happens is that after launching, and if you do not open the bay doors before launch, it will close back automatically to prevent crit hits. If you did not open the doors and hit the fire key, it will open for you, but there will also be a lag as the doors need to be fully opened in order for your salvos to launch. Try it out and see if there's a difference. And like what Mecha sed, if u have the GXP and CBills to spend, unlock and get the modules. Personal preference for me is to use the LRM15s, but whatever works dude.

Welcome to the fray!

[John1352]

Might be the missile doors. Try pressing "/" to open them. They slightly reduce damage taken to the arms while closed, but also cause the firing delay. The second delay will be due to your cooldown being slower than your rate of fire.

As far as the build goes, you're very slow, but you'll need to go to an XL engine to get faster without losing weapon space. XL300 is used in quite a few mechs, but 295 may be better if you want to share it with lighter mechs.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

LRM 5s on chain fire will probably work better if you are lower tier.

Against higher tier, you will probably want to set up a trigger group or macro that allows for firing a multiple launchers in very quick succession (not necessarily all launchers concurrently) as your realistic lock time will be MUCH shorter. Either that or up gun to 10s.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

First, IGNORE THE MECHA STREISAND! Dude's a jerk. Only really dangerous if you live in South Park, CO, or if you are allergic to ethnic diversity jokes. (Also my alt account.)

So. I humbly suggest THIS. It's a harasser CPLT-A1 build. Exchanges the Ferro-fibrous armor for Endo-steel internal structure, and ditches the Artemis IV fire control system. Keeps 100% max armor. Puts ammo only in the most secure, meta-approved locations (legs, head, CT).

The CPLT-A1 gets a 10% reduction in missile cooldown times, which are already low on the LRM-5 at 3.25 seconds. So, each launcher can now fire once every (slightly less than) three seconds. If they're chained with a 0.5 second delay, that's a constant stream of missiles until you run out of missiles, which will take a couple of minutes. Add in the LRM-5 cooldown module, and you'll have no more worries with that troublesome delay. You will be an LRM chainsaw of death and severe nuisance!

Also keeps the max jump jets for getting into trouble-making spots of great value. And the XL 315 engine gives you LUDICROUS SPEED (for a heavy IS mech, anyhow).

Or, be SLOW and survivable. (Aka- BO-RING.)

In either case, I recommend THREE (3) distinct firing groups. 1- Left Arm missiles (yes, all of them) only. 2- Right Arm (again, ALL) missiles only. 3- ALL launchers, chain-fired. This way, if you WANT to sustain harassment of an enemy in the open, use 3. If you need to hurry-fire on an enemy with a limited window, fire 1, wait a half-second, then fire 2. Also, if you find yourself in a spot where cover only allows you to fire one side or the other, you're good with that layout to at least send one whole arm's worth of missiles without repositioning. And it's still all the missiles you'd be able to fire in the original CPLT-A1, with tighter (BY A MILE!) grouping and faster fire rate, which means higher DPS!

While even the second version is faster (by a hair) than the original, the first one is pretty darned quick for a heavy mech. It's ALMOST as fast as the dreaded Clan omnimechs, which is fairly impressive on its own. This is VERY helpful in using those LRMs PROPERLY.

Both builds retain the Beagle Active Probe, which is pretty much a must-have for this mech.

Modules I'd recommend:
Advanced Target Decay (helps you keep lock on LONGER after an enemy mech has broken line-of-sight).
Radar Deprivation (helps you break an enemy lock on you, as in when they're firing BACK AT YOU).
LRM-5 Cooldown
AMS Rate of Fire (Optional, and not THAT valuable. Will save you taking a few points of damage from missiles per match, which MIGHT make a difference in a close one, especially in the XL-engine build).
UAV (if you are in trouble, or feel you are about to be jumped, POP THE UAV and hope that your teammates are up to the task of saving you, because you have ZERO firepower within 180 meters)
Artillery Strike

When you open the MASTER module slot, I'd probably recommend Seismic Sensor to help with up-close threats if/when you get jumped.

Now, why didn't I mention anything about LRM-5 RANGE module? Because you shouldn't be firing at anything that far away anyhow. Your ideal range bracket for LRMs is 300-600 meters, really. This build needs to stay close to the friendly brawlers and other assault mechs. It fires OVER them at enemies at mid-range (which might be CLOSE range to those pals), supplementing their massive firepower with constant screen-shaking Lurmpocalyptic 'splosions! You are NOT a standalone asset, contrary to lore. This mech will get its lunch eaten by a lone, non-map-reading, BONE STOCK LCT-1V, if it's off in a corner by itself. God Forbid some relatively experienced ACH pilot come along and feel a tingling in his Clan ERSLs (or SPLs), and decide to have a go at you. You need to be WITH and NEAR your team, moving alongside them, sharing the damage, and helping kill their targets with focused and consistent fire. You've got the heat capacity for it (BY FAR) as long as you don't panic-alpha your missiles while in mid-air over the lava pit in Mordor. Hang out behind and to one side of (~60-120 meters between you) one of your biggest, scariest-looking friendlies, and start chaining those LRMs at whatever poor soul HE decides to make his b***h (this will probably be me).

There is no real use for a dedicated LRM 'boat', per se. No standalones, anyhow. But by maneuvering with the team, sharing in the fight with them, this build can be very rewarding (I have a 5.0 KDR in the CPLT-C1, still my best of all mechs BY FAR).

Or, y'know, live it up in the rear with the beer in Tier 5, and lurm them **** from 900+ meters away. It's weird down there, but it CAN be satisfying to hear the crunch of those baby seals' skulls a few times a match...

Edited by TheRAbbi, 01 February 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[Draggs]

Wow thanks for all the feedback and keep it coming

Thought I would add that I don't take this built out when I'm all alone, only take it out when we have a full lance of clan members (aka have backup). I trialed the build last night and had about 500-600 damage a map.... you guys are correct about the light mech's but when I have been killed early still managed to do about 200-300 damage... the LRM10's do tear chunks, even when coming at you they still have to get in where I don't have range

Will try an XL engine, when I can afford it
will also try LRM5's... I do really like the 10's thou.
I bet you are right about the doors, didn't think about leaving them open.
I didn't even know pilot skills were a thing so I better take care of that... sigh more learning
will defiantly try move the ammo out of the shoulders.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Yeah, the very basic stuff would be to relocate ammo into the legs, head, and center torso. Move that Beagle Active Probe out of the CT and into a side. Unless you're getting REALLY good results out of those Streak SRM-2 launchers, ditch them--you're not carrying much ammo for them anyhow, and might as well swap them for a single SRM-4 or SRM-6 if you want some up-close missile backup.

IF the Catapult is the only mech you own, then we're in a little bit of trouble. That engine you have is an odd duck, though. If you still HAVE the stock engine, drop that back in for now. Should be the STD 260, IIRC, which will work fine. Might have to ditch some ammo to make that happen with full armor, but you'll be okay. If you need to make some weight, start with only ONE jump jet for now.

WHEN you can afford it, consider an XL engine, 280 or higher rating (280, 295, and 300 are the most useful ones to own, IMO, and 265 is the next one on the list, unless you get into mechs with even HIGHER engine caps). FIRST, though, make sure you're on DOUBLE heat sinks, ENDO STEEL internal structure (instead of Ferro Fibrous armor), and NON-Artemis if you're switching to LRM-5s. The more expensive engine can wait.

Skills? Where we're going, we don't need 'skills'...

[Leone]

Whoa wait a minute!

You folk suggesting lrm 5s for a mech that's already gotten artemis? That's... that's just... that goes against my build policies. So much extra tonnage...

For the OP, just don't pull off artemis to test it out without. Artemis is expensive to swap on an off.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 01 February 2016 - 08:51 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Catapult A1/LRM Troll-Cat

I've been running something like this for about as long as I've been playing this game.
Features:
- Just about maximum armor for the chassis overall with max armor on the locations that matter.
- XL300 gives it good speed and maneuverability, same with the Jump Jets
- Artemis seems to reduce the time it takes to achieve a lock-on if you have LOS to the target (really nice for ECM targets)
- BAP is a must-have for LRMs
- 10 tons of ammo will keep you up and running for all but the longest fights

Use:
- Set your launchers to Chain-Fire (Backspace)
- Open your missile doors ( / button) as soon as you are able
- Lock onto some poor sod that finds themselves out in the open and lock on
- Press and hold your fire button
- Punish them relentlessly for being out in the open
- Savor their sweet, sweet tears of rage and hate for all things LRM when they die

This build in action:



Alternate:
Same as above, but drop the Artemis. Use the extra 6 tons to add AMS and get more ammo:


Suggested Modules:
- LRM5 Cooldown
- LRM5 Range
- Radar Deprivation
- Advanced Target Decay
- Advanced Sensor Range
- Artillery Strike
- UAV/Cool Shot 9 by 9 (I prefer Cool Shot, because on some maps, you will accumulate heat and that can be annoying when you're trying to strip someone of their dignity)

[IraqiWalker]

Draggs, on 01 February 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

So far I am doing OK with my build I think but was wanting any suggestions on improvements. the idea is to keep a absolute consistent stream of missiles to target... at the moment using the 4 LRM10's grouped with continuous fire, seems to create micro pauses in launching (for example when holding down the fire group I get: Fire, fire, pause, fire, fire, fire fire, pause, fire, fire pause... I was wondering if any one has a remedy to combat this. I work with my clan for locking, so losing lock and wasting missiles, is combated via communication with scouts and target calling.

So:
how can I negate the firing pause?
Any tips on the build?

Link to build:
http://images.akamai...577FE9799D2467/

Lemme help fix the build for you. This is more of an end goal to work towards, unless you have the C-Bills right now

CPLT-A1 This one uses your standard LRM 10s, just like you like them.

I would recommend getting the cooldown module at some point to help with the fire rate.

I would recommend dropping 1.5 tons of ammo, to add a Beagle Active probe, as well.

Though in all honesty, the other two missile catapults have a passive 20% missile cooldown buff.

Here's the second build, using the classic LRM 5 config. Be forewarned, the enemy team will definitely prioritize you, and try to kill you first. That's if you're doing your job right, XD.

CPLT-A1
Again, you can shave off 1.5 tons to add a BAP in there to counter close range ECM, but if they ever get that close to you, you're either dead, did something really stupid, or your teammates will cover you.

[DavidStarr]

IraqiWalker, on 01 February 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

Though in all honesty, the other two missile catapults have a passive 20% missile cooldown buff.

Are you saying those are better missile mechs?

[Rogue Jedi]

Draggs, on 01 February 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

So far I am doing OK with my build I think but was wanting any suggestions on improvements. the idea is to keep a absolute consistent stream of missiles to target... at the moment using the 4 LRM10's grouped with continuous fire, seems to create micro pauses in launching (for example when holding down the fire group I get: Fire, fire, pause, fire, fire, fire fire, pause, fire, fire pause... I was wondering if any one has a remedy to combat this. I work with my clan for locking, so losing lock and wasting missiles, is combated via communication with scouts and target calling.

So:
how can I negate the firing pause?
Any tips on the build?

Link to build:
http://images.akamai...577FE9799D2467/

do you mean the pause from firing the 4th LRM before the first is ready? if that is the case you want 6 LRM5s, those on chain-fire the first 6 will fire half a second apart then the 7th shot will happen three quarters of a second later until you die, overheat or run out of ammo (whichever comes first), that is as close as possible to continuous fire with LRMs unless I have missed a Mech with 7 missile hardpoints

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 02 February 2016 - 08:09 AM.

[Koniving]

6 LRM 5s.

Accompany with companion, having 4 LRM-10s or LRM-15s.

Looks like this on the receiving end.

[Koniving]

To note:
Even better is to have a plethora of LRM-5s with LRM-10s or 15s.

And then have a scout narc the enemy.

But then again, don't mistake that for saying that LRMs are unfair or impossible to overcome. Just annoying.


Side note: This is what it's like to be an LRM mech... and someone grows a pair.

[IraqiWalker]

DavidStarr, on 02 February 2016 - 04:32 AM, said:

Are you saying those are better missile mechs?

It means they can fire their missiles 20% faster. However, the C1 has only 2 Missile hardpoints (with 4 energy hardpoints), and the C4 only has 4 missile hardpoints (with 2 energy hardpoints).

So if you are running only 4 launchers, the C4 will be superior to the A1. So for the 4xLRM 10 build, the C4 would be a better choice.

The A1 is superior to both, when using all 6 launchers. However, that doesn't mean you can't run a 4xLRM 10 A1. It just means that a C4 will do it a bit better.

The C1 on the other hand can't run a 4 launcher set up. It only has 2. Leading pilots to run it with LRM 15s, or 20s. It compensates with better lasers though.

Each Catapult has it's flavor and what it excels at.

The A1 is better for missile spam builds, like 6 LRM5s (a nightmare to deal with, which is part of why the A1 doesn't have solid missile quirks.), 6 SMR6 (called the Splatcat, because it's basically "oh high enemy mech. SPLAT. Bye enemy mech."), or 6 SSRM6s. Which is a pain for all enemies, but is exceptionally horrible to face in a light mech.

The C4 sacrifices two missile hardpoints for energy ones. Allowing it to be better at extended engagements where it's ammo reserves might run dry, and it's got decent missile quirks to make sure that it's launchers are still effective.

The C1 swaps two more missile points for energy, making it's lasers either effective secondary weapons, or devastating main weapons, because of their distribution, while still maintaining the versatility of the missile hardpoints.

The K2 abolishes missiles completely, relying on energy, and ballistic weaponry for a drastically different style of piloting compared to the other Catapults. It even discards the JJs.

The Jester goes the way of the K2, with an all energy loadout, bigger engine to better maneuver and close on it's enemies.

The only time one of them can be superior to the others is if you pick a specific build. For example:
The A1 is superior to all other Catapults if we're talking about running 6 launchers. None of the others can do that.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 03 February 2016 - 09:51 AM.

[DavidStarr]

Thanks for the great write-up, IraqiWalker. I was set on getting A1 after playing the trial one, but now I'm not sure that's the one I should get. I don't remember if the trial A1 has 2 or 4 LRMs, but definitely not 6. And its performance is quite adequate. So maybe I should get the C4 and retain some close quarters brawling potential with 2 lasers?
How does this look like? I'm just starting to wrap my head around the concepts of mech-building, so any critique is welcome.

Edited by DavidStarr, 05 February 2016 - 06:48 AM.

[Agent1190]

Damn, IraqiWalker, that should be stickied. Best summary of Catapults I've seen yet.

The best Cat-A1's I've seen in game are LRM5 spam where it can sit at the rear of the engagement and deliver constant annoyance/pain to the enemy target. Much like the Kintaro LRM5 spam. It's really annoying when it happens to me - freaking Mech looks like it's have a seizure I'm twisting so bad while trying to find cover (which is difficult when you can't focus on which way you need to walk). The trade off is having no secondary close-in weapons. If you are looking for similar LRM5 spam with a couple self defense weapons, then consider the C4 so you can bring a couple medium or small lasers along with 4 LRM hardpoints. You can still spam your LRM10's (the extra cooldown quirk will help with the firing delay).