98 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

Tyler Valentine, on 03 February 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

They are overrated because they are touted as the only viable weapon system. They're not. If you practice, all the other weapon systems can be viable.
How can I make this simpler for you?
BTW. Efficiency is king in your world but fun is king in my world... And i still seem to be moving up in ranks

You are wrong. At the competitive level, lasers/meta builds are the only viable weapons. Everything else is far behind. Practice has nothing to do with game mechanics.

Edited by mogs01gt, 03 February 2016 - 11:49 AM.

[Bullseye69]

Laser do less damage but are lighter, the drawback is they do heat up the mechs.
Ac weigh more plus are ammo dependent but doeas not add heat and they can put out massive damage over time.
Lrm do less damage but huge volley of multiple missiles can sctew over any mech not in cover they can indirect fire but or ammo dependent. Now tag just is acrewed up big time and here is why, if your in the open and your tagged that fine but when you behind a hill and they can't possibility have line of sight and put tag laser on there side of the hill but lrms or impacting on your side of the hill that just wrong. I have seen this happen on a lot of the maps say canyon there at theta big hill in center of the map your behind the hill going up the ramp to theta bridge side their is no UAV up you poke out and duck back behind 20 foot of cover and they tag the hill you hiding behind now the lrms or coming down on you even though there is hill in they way between you and the tag make the lrms IMPAC where the tag hits.
SRM more damage but short rang and ammo dependent.
Streak more damage and seeking but again ammo depentent and must have lock on to fire.
The balance is getting there but something's still a little sack.

Hope you never get caught out of the open and the team sporting 6 lrm 15 launchers. Everyone says stay in cover and that rarely happens I have seen thew opposing team with 4 to 6 lrms boat and it was pugs they did huge numbers in damage but not a lot of kills there brawlers did that. The most stupid thing I have ever seen is a lrm only build and that all they have not talk catapult ether ,atlas awesome stalkers,mad dogs. Once they were out of ammo they had nothing. They had hardly no damage but had nothing tok do damage with once their ammo exhausted and when you suggest a back upon weapon they get mad at your suggest and blame the rest of the team for not doing there part.

[Tyler Valentine]

mogs01gt, on 03 February 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

You are wrong. At the competitive level, lasers/meta builds are the only viable weapons. Everything else is far behind. Practice has nothing to do with game mechanics.

I didn't realize you were a high level comp player. my apologies. for the rest of us, my statements are correct.

Good luck in the tourney!

[Roadkill]

Wintersdark, on 02 February 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Wait, I missed that. Analog turning? That works now? Seriously?

I can't say from personal experience because I'm using mouse and keyboard, but a couple of friends were using joysticks a while back and I doubt they would have continued to do so if they weren't getting the benefit of analog turning.

I'll ask 'em, though.

[AztecD]

have lasers work full damage until effective range, no additional damage after that, that's why ERLL is used, you can boat a couple and "paint" your target from extreme ranges, in BT most of the weapons came under 1000mts with some exceptions like ERPPC's or ATM's

Cone of Fire also would be fine, but we can only dream

[Tyler Valentine]

Roadkill, on 03 February 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

I can't say from personal experience because I'm using mouse and keyboard, but a couple of friends were using joysticks a while back and I doubt they would have continued to do so if they weren't getting the benefit of analog turning.

I'll ask 'em, though.

It works. i bust out the joystick if I fire up MWO after a flight sim. They added the code in the last patch but didn't say anything about it lol!

[AztecD]

Tyler Valentine, on 03 February 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

It works. i bust out the joystick if I fire up MWO after a flight sim. They added the code in the last patch but didn't say anything about it lol!

come one, did they?

[Lugh]

The Dakka Fu in the OP is sub par.

[Lugh]

mogs01gt, on 03 February 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

You are wrong. At the competitive level, lasers/meta builds are the only viable weapons. Everything else is far behind. Practice has nothing to do with game mechanics.

Funny but when I left the comp scene at the height of the NERF PPCS, NERF GAUSS NERF JJs poptarts now stage a year and a half ago. ALL the Comp teams were running ER-PPC x2 Plus Gauss.

All the rage on the forums was from laser vomitters who "Couldn't compete with the PPFLD of the PPC/Gauss Meta.
The comp teams and players told the vomiters to Ghit Gud. And the Vomiters continued to cry until the lasers were so much better and that's because of the velocity nerfs on the ppcs. Instant damage with ease of use. Compared to instant damage with too much travel time.

Lasers are totally NOOB weapons. Heck, I've even used them to improve my learning curve on the wacky ballistics velocities since my return last may.

That the 'l33ts' think lasers are the be all and end all, saddens anyone that had an iota of skill from pre-poptart days.

[xXBagheeraXx]

mogs01gt, on 03 February 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

You are wrong. At the competitive level, lasers/meta builds are the only viable weapons. Everything else is far behind. Practice has nothing to do with game mechanics.

Who gives a crap about competitive play?

I drive a triple UAC5 muromets for giggles. And have fun.

And sometimes have OMGWTF games where i plant all 10 tons of my ammunition in the enemy team.

[Lightfoot]

Merky Merc, on 02 February 2016 - 09:52 PM, said:

I don't understand the cries for nerfing of lasers, considering given their weight they're the most viable weapons for a majority of the mechs in the game. So many energy only chassis would be screwed, anything below like, 60 tons would be in a sore spot.

I'd like to see some better ballistic options but I suspect that would require either tossing lore properties like weight and ammo per ton out, or adding in some lacs and racs. Or do both and add in light fusion engines so boating smaller ballistics isn't so terrible.

I am not saying nerf lasers. I am saying they need some counter-weapons. Weapons that beat lasers if used correctly. For instance PPCs/ERPPCs with 1500-1700 mps travel times. Accuracy vs DPS. Lasers dominate short-range, mid-range and long-range reaching over 1000 meters with potent damage. You need to have weapons countering other weapons in MechWarrior. Keeps the game throwing new challenges at you each match.

[Lightfoot]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 02 February 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

What's funny to me, is, generally, the "Fun" mechs for me, are things that are close to lore accurate builds.

A timby prime with the pulse laser removed and LRM's downgraded to 15's instead of 20's for instance. Or Warhammers running a loadout based on the 6K variant, just upgraded to Double heatsinks instead of standards... or an atlas that can function at all ranges with a spread of weaponry, hell the Catapult C1 founders rocking ALRM15's and 4mlas... things like that.

And you know what, a lot of times, I can do quite well in these. That near stock timby prime being a great example, every time I take that thing out for a spin, I rarely do less than 2 kills, and 500+damage. I have enough missiles that I can play Indirrect Fire Support if my team needs, but my mix of ERLL, ERML and MG's let me get in some damned good hit's up close. And often times, if the team is playing even remotely well, that build alone, allows me to stomp on the meta and grind it's corpse into the dust.

But, that doesn't mean that, in optimal conditions, a meta mech can't beat me, quite the contrary, if I'm not careful, not paying close enough attention to the damage I'm taking, not utilzing the terrain or various other means of cover, concielment, and rolling damage properly, I can get wrecked easily... Because the meta IS there for a reason, it works... but GOD THE META IS STALE AS HELL.

So yes, OP, I agree, the meta is boring, but hey, play what's fun to you, learn to utilize it no matter what, and you'll be heads and shoulders better than the players that crutch the meta.

Again, I am not using the laser-boats I have. I run what you would call normal Battle Tech builds. Not stock, but ones with several weapon types and mixed ranges, not because it is better, but because it is more fun.

And the Timber Wolf Prime is a nearly perfect design. You could not do bad with it, nearly a laser-boat, but with missile racks instead of extra DHS and lasers. MGs for short range crits.

I guess I liked the game where players were bringing all sorts of load-outs and doing well with all of them. AC2 Jagers, ERPPC/PPC, Gauss Rifle, AC20, LRMs, but not LRM boats and of course laser-boats which is fine, so long as it is challenged. Laser-boat mechs are always part of Battle Tech.

[Trauglodyte]

Lasers aren't that far out of whack but it isn't right to say that they're fine. Lasers have been, for the entire duration of Battletech and its different incarnations, the staple weapon of choice. That makes sense because BT was fashioned after Cold War era tank games and, so, things like inventory were important. But, none of that makes a difference in current MWO - it used to back when we had R&R. The point is that the various lasers are weight efficient, damage efficient, unshackled from ammo, and only suffer from heat which isn't really that big of a deal in MWO due to coolant consumables, quirks, heatsinks, and simply not being stupid about overheating. The ER Lrg Lasers weighs 42% of the weight of the AC10, doesn't require ammo, does 6 more points of heat, and only does 1 point less damage while having an extra 225m in range. You can argue that the Lrg Laser doesn't put all of the damage in one spot but that is largely up to the skill of the user and, quite frankly, that is irrelevant when you can still do damage with said laser if you miss at any point. The AC, on the other hand, does 0 damage if it misses and does 0 damage when it runs out of ammo. On top of that, said AC doesn't run the risk of blowing up the chassis should its ammo cook off.

Seriously, how are we arguing about this when we all know that this is wrong. It has been wrong from the jump but has simply been hidden due to other metas that were out of control. Large Laser boating was a thing pre-Ghost Heat which was during the height of the PPC+AC poptart meta.

[Novakaine]

Orion VA begs to disagree with the OP

[Mister Blastman]

MeiSooHaityu, on 03 February 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

Ummm no.

The way convergence is done in MWO may need to change, but it definitely needs to stay. No convergence what so ever is just nonsensical.

Why?

Convergence has been breaking Mechwarrior since Mechwarrior 3.

It has to go.

The game will be infinitely better for it.

[Wintersdark]

Tyler Valentine, on 03 February 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

They are overrated because they are touted as the only viable weapon system. They're not. If you practice, all the other weapon systems can be viable.

How can I make this simpler for you?

BTW. Efficiency is king in your world but fun is king in my world... And i still seem to be moving up in ranks

Most of them can be viable.

But viable != optimal; nor is it necessarily even close.

An CLBX-20 is a viable weapons system, but it's terrible in comparison to a CUAC20.

[DeadEye COTP]

Personally I would like to see a proper heat scale added like we had in the old MW games, even similar to TT rules, and they would have to touch very little in terms of laser balance.

The biggest issue I see is being able to jam your heat up to 99% with zero penalty, and leads to boating ridiculous damage without a thought process involved. It's a 'peek and poke' game a majority of the time and it comes down to having the biggest engine you can fit and the most agile mech to win the poke battle.

Some people aren't fans of RNG systems, but I think it would do wonders for the game. Having a chance your mech will shut down after a certain amount of heat and not just while over 100%, chance of weapons being destroyed, ammo explosions and the like.

Even putting that aside, a penalty to agility like we had in TT so your movement speed is slowed would also be a good way to stop the silly gameplay we have currently. There are so many interesting ways to fix this issue that are in line with lore other than a simple 'ghost heat' system that really in the end does nothing except slightly hinder a new player who doesn't quite grasp the concept of it.

Edited by DeadEye COTP, 03 February 2016 - 05:51 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Proper heat scale won't ever happen due to how people utilize their weapons. IF we had reticle shake and a decrease in movement speed, agility, etc., we'd all be lumbering messes with the first trigger pull.

[Lightfoot]

Novakaine, on 03 February 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

Orion VA begs to disagree with the OP

Orion VA gets pretty massive set of structure quirks allowing it to sidestep a lot of weapon imbalances. 23 to the CT, that makes it Assault class structurally, but whatever. It's not an issue of this mech vs that mech or personal achievement, it's just purely about the lack of weaponry to challenge lasers.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 02 February 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Wait, I missed that. Analog turning? That works now? Seriously?

Void Angel, on 02 February 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

Will this game support analog turning? I'm going to go get a joystick again for Elite, so I might as well do double duty if I can.

Where have you been? Analog turning has been around since at least March 2013.

Edited by Mystere, 03 February 2016 - 09:55 PM.