178 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

jaxjace, on 05 February 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

Cough uninformed bishop is uninformed, Modules make a heck of a difference in ALL levels of play, do you know what it means to fire an ac20 12-15 percent faster? it means the enemy in front of you dies before you do, GG.

Oh look... Still wrong. At least you are consistent.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Yea 10 percent is just a number, it actually doesnt mean anything.

/s

[BigFatGator]

Weapon modules are pretty much optional. A slightly higher cooldown is a slight benefit but not a big deal. Range modules are slightly more effective on some weapons, but also not a huge deal.

OTOH, the Seismic is pretty frickin' mandatory. Radar dep. in 2nd place once you get the module slot superelitewhatever.

[LordNothing]

modules are kind of expensive. sort of like an is xl engine upgrade. eventually you end up with almost every module, but because you own a lot of mechs, it becomes impossible to equip them all with modules. ive gotten to the point where i dont even care, it takes too much effort to move modules around and i usually do without them most of the time. i will sometimes move them to new unmastered mechs if i think they need help. its probibly worth it to keep modules in your cw drop deck mechs, unless im using cw to level mechs (i do this a lot, you can carry lesser mechs with a hero/champion/optimal mech in the deck).

[SteelMantis]

Herr Vorragend, on 05 February 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

What exactly, OP, do you want?
A completely mastered, fully equipped and moduled mech from the start on? If you are that lazy and easy-to-please...where is the challenge?

I'm not the OP but that's what I want for new players. One completely mastered, fully equipped and moduled mech. Once they have that they are at no real disadvantage.

How long does it take a F2P player to get that currently? I've played 185 hours since I came back for the Steam release and put at least that much time into the game back in 2012 (or 13,14 I can't remember). I still would not have a fully upgraded mech 350+ hours in if I didn't decide I liked the game (despite it's flaws) and spent some money on it.

I don't really object to the C-bill cost of modules though since enough to fill all the module slots on a single mech shouldn't run over 20 million C-bills, which a new play should be able to come up with in the first 50 hours, and can be moved from mech to mech.

It's the GXP paywall that I don't like. Once consumable upgrades are added to weapon and mech mods we are talking about 90-100,000 GXP to get all possible upgrades for one mech.

[thehiddenedge]

My complaint is that modules are just named so generically. If I'm gonna pay 6 million for Radar Derp, you better throw some lore in there somewhere. I'm talking brand names people. Go on Sarna, find an electronics company, put in name. It's not that hard PGI.

ah, remember back in beta how this game was supposed to be enveloped in the lore, with our daily news stories and such?
I come back and things have just gone downhill. Definitely not "A Battletech Game"

[5LeafClover]

F2P - means you can play. for free.

Free to have all the best stuff handed to me on a silver plate instantly (F2HATBSHTMOASPI?) is something different. Suggest you go looking for game titles that fit this model instead.

Personally, I'm happy that MWO isn't one of them.

[Sagamore]

I still regret buying Capture Accelerator and Hill Climb.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Alright guys, thanks for the game. Unfortunately I'm not a whale to this game isn't for me. I might stop by once there isn't so much grind to stay competitive. 3000 avg players - 1, it was pretty fun though, but I'm not willing to spend a month just to max out 1 mech. Game definitely isn't for me. <3 Overwatch can't come any sooner with all these "free" games : (

I'm pretty convinced war thunder has less grind at this point.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 06 February 2016 - 01:43 AM.

[1Grimbane]

[Johnny Gorbachev]

1Grimbane, on 06 February 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

Whale spotted

[1Grimbane]

thar she blows off the port bow.. in the shoals of big money bay nestled right next to cash cove where i keep me big piles o' gems and all sorts o precious booty.. arrgghh me pirate blood runs yeller with all the gold i've amarsed in all me days of plunderin the spanish main

once again it's like 4 am where i'm at and lawdy do i need sleep

Edited by 1Grimbane, 06 February 2016 - 02:02 AM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

i agree modules are a bit to expensive, also having to buy 3 mechs to master 1 is a load of BS.

i remember when i first started playing first day of open beta. game felt bad, really bad. always was getting pasted to the wall had no idea about this skill tree thing, or why my trials sucked so bad.

blew $30 on an atlas K, and was immediately disappointing, sold it after a week, bought it again for cbills couple months later, sold it again, bought it again. but we wont talk about that.

so i would actually highly recommend getting a decent hero mech as sad as it sounds they are one of the best ways to grind cbills.

currently really good heros (in no particular order)

Misery with 3lpl and an AC20 (rock solid even in tier 1)

Ilya with 3 ultra 5's and 3ml (rock solid even in tier 1)

Golden boy with 5 lrm 5's, tag, 2mpl, bap and lots of ammo is great for milking cbills at lower tiers (and surprisingly effective against higher tier players that dont regard "lrms" as "real" weapons) just dont expect to turn the tides so much as farm cbills

i here hellsinger is a decent hero but i don't own it so i cant really comment

La Malinche can be a decent "puncher" mech with an ac20, 2ppcs and some backup ML or MPL

Top dog is a decent hero with a mix of ML and MPL

IV-four is a face wrecker with 2 ac10s and 2ml and can hold its own against tier 1 mechs.

Firebrand is a good dual gauss/dual ac20 mech but takes patience and practice to get good with, i might recommend 2 ac5s, and dual ppcs with 4ml backup as well. It easily can hold its own in a tier 1 match with a good pilot.

Jester can be a mean brawler with 6mpl and a standard engine, or a decent "laser vomit" with 3LL, 3ml. also don't discount those 2 AMS hard points especially in group play.

Loup De Gurre can be a very mean brawler as well with srms when played right, or a half decent LRM boat to farm cbills.

Sparky is decent, ive seen it played very well with laser vomit if that's your thing.

for the moment X-5 is the premier 3 ERLL sniper hands down. with an xl280 it does 121.9kph (mastered) and has 35% energy range. but note PGI has said they intend to reign in IS energy range quirks so this may change in the near future.

Yen-Low is a high skill, high reward mech that to this day is a solid choice but it takes lots of practice to learn how to protect that RA and land accurate ac20 shots in a tiny window.

The Arrow is rock solid with 3LPL and i often see it in matches.

Huggins (post nerf) is still a mean little ******* and can easily break 500-600 damage when played right, again tho it takes practice to learn how to play to its advantages.

Oxide is slightly better then huggins IMO and it plays mostly the same way.

TDK is like yen low, takes alot of skill and alot of practice but i think it easily takes the cake for top light hero with blistering speed and agility its a monster that most assaults dont want to have to deal with when caught alone.

PB gets special mention for ECM but really its pretty craptastic other then that.


just getting your first mastered mech is a real PITA especially with trials (some aren't so bad tho) but honestly experience in game has allowed me to see that its mostly the pilot. and i often take a whole CW deck of heros to maximize my profit, and often do very well breaking 500-600k cbills with a decent group (never drop in CW without buddies and lots of them).

on that note, join a unit, learn from older players and just try to have fun. dont concentrate on trying to always have "THE" metamech/holyunicornofmecca as they often change and come and go. never buy a mech just for quirks but generally favor hardpoints and their location as a general rule for a good/bad mech.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

It is extremely unlikely I will ever spend money in the current state of the game. I'm not going to spend money to ease the grind, I'll only spend money if there is no grind. I'm a league whale, and the reason that is, when I buy a champion, thats what I get, I got everything from that champion nothing more nothing less.


In this game,if you buy a Jagermech, you don't really have its full potential until you buy another 2. Then you have to buy the engines, modules, grind the exp, ferro/heatsinks/thatotherarmorwhateveritscalled Sure we can grind it out, but do I really enjoy this game that much that I'm willing to tolerate such a non- consumer friendly economy? Not really. I'm not going to buy a character to make the grind last 2 months instead of 4. I want that character, and I don't want to be dragged to pay for other garbage just because Piranhas are hunting for more Whales.

Pirahna is killing their own game, MWO was released and it didn't even hit the top free games for a day on steam. I guess I can see why. This game is utterly ruined by the grind, it is actually worse than warthunder and heartstone in plenty of ways IMO (flameshield).

Until that changes, I might consider buying some mechbays, but as long as it takes me about 20-30 hours of being clubbed with my unmodded mech to unlock another single unmodded mech, I can't see the fun in a game that has no actual progression system.

Deny it all you want, the grind in this game is absurd. It breaks my heart to see a battletech game go this route, : (.

And you know what the sad thing is, the playerbase knows that it is practically impossible to grind most of the mechs with CCBILL, thats why they always provide such deep discussions on what mech is best for a new player to get, because they know that new player isn't going to get another one for a really, really long time. Yet some players still have the nerve to defend the absurd grind in this game, white knighting is one thing, but this is just insane.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 06 February 2016 - 04:13 AM.

[thehiddenedge]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

In this game,if you buy a Jagermech, you don't really have its full potential until you buy another 2. Then you have to buy the engines, modules, grind the exp, ferro/heatsinks/thatotherarmorwhateveritscalled Sure we can grind it out, but do I really enjoy this game that much that I'm willing to tolerate such a non- consumer friendly economy? Not really. I'm not going to buy a character to make the grind last 2 months instead of 4. I want that character, and I don't want to be dragged to pay for other garbage just because Piranhas are hunting for more Whales.

What Character? Like that old dude with the beard? Or that prince with the sword thing?

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

It is extremely unlikely I will ever spend money in the current state of the game. I'm not going to spend money to ease the grind, I'll only spend money if there is no grind. I'm a league whale, and the reason that is, when I buy a champion, thats what I get, I got everything from that champion nothing more nothing less.


In this game,if you buy a Jagermech, you don't really have its full potential until you buy another 2. Then you have to buy the engines, modules, grind the exp, ferro/heatsinks/thatotherarmorwhateveritscalled Sure we can grind it out, but do I really enjoy this game that much that I'm willing to tolerate such a non- consumer friendly economy? Not really. I'm not going to buy a character to make the grind last 2 months instead of 4. I want that character, and I don't want to be dragged to pay for other garbage just because Piranhas are hunting for more Whales.

Pirahna is killing their own game, MWO was released and it didn't even hit the top free games for a day on steam. I guess I can see why. This game is utterly ruined by the grind, it is actually worse than warthunder and heartstone in plenty of ways IMO (flameshield).

Until that changes, I might consider buying some mechbays, but as long as it takes me about 20-30 hours of being clubbed with my unmodded mech to unlock another single unmodded mech, I can't see the fun in a game that has no actual progression system.

Deny it all you want, the grind in this game is absurd. It breaks my heart to see a battletech game go this route, : (.

And you know what the sad thing is, the playerbase knows that it is practically impossible to grind most of the mechs with CCBILL, thats why they always provide such deep discussions on what mech is best for a new player to get, because they know that new player isn't going to get another one for a really, really long time. Yet some players still have the nerve to defend the absurd grind in this game, white knighting is one thing, but this is just insane.

well first off i think its wrong to compare MWO to league so directly, its much more like CS with mechs (even tho PGI is obsessed with lane based choke point centric maps )

but what you have fun with is what you have fun with.

i know it took me easily 200+ hours of in match game time to even get half decent at this game. the learning curve is very high and like i said before, the pilot is the biggest factor in a mech, ya some mechs are clearly better then others and ya it helps to have a mastered mech fully moduled out but ive had some of my best matches in mechs that dont even have all basic skills unlocked.

the point i was trying to make was that you dont have to go and buy a $50 timber wolf pack to get a mech that will flood you with cbills, by far huggins and oxide are the best heros for the money in terms of ROI.

and is it so different then league? in terms of owning alot of mechs? i mean ya you get a hero and all that comes with it once you buy it in league, but isnt the real advantage of being a league whale that you can bring THE hero to the match that best helps your team? cuz its the same here in that regard, i have 70+ mechs atm but that really just means i can tune my CW decks for whatever my team needs me to bring, same in group que i can bring THE mech that my team needs most.

Edited by Mellifluer, 06 February 2016 - 04:51 AM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Mellifluer, on 06 February 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

the point i was trying to make was that you dont have to go and buy a $50 timber wolf pack to get a mech that will flood you with cbills, by far huggins and oxide are the best heros for the money in terms of ROI.

Even with a good ROI, its still not... a very good return, its just good compared to what you had before, because its +30%, but +30% of garbage is just garbage.3. So with a 30% ccbill boost, now you are locked to playing that hero mech whenever you want to grind CCBILLS, and it means you are punished for not using it by having a reduced ccbill gain. Sounds extremely counter-intuitive for a game that has over 100 mechs, but that is beside the point. The grind is still going to be terrible even if you follow these ideal strats, owning most of the mechs without paying is impossible unless you make it your full time job.

Mellifluer, on 06 February 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

and is it so different then league? in terms of owning alot of mechs? i mean ya you get a hero and all that comes with it once you buy it in league, but isnt the real advantage of being a league whale that you can bring THE hero to the match that best helps your team? cuz its the same here in that regard, i have 70+ mechs atm but that really just means i can tune my CW decks for whatever my team needs me to bring, same in group que i can bring THE mech that my team needs most.

I'm just comparing the grind.

League has 11 450ip characters,450 ip can be farmed in about an hour/hourhalf not including boosts, with boosts the game just becomes amazingly fast and easy to farm everything if you are a hardcore grinder. Once you buy all of these and a few runes (about 6k ip), you are set to play endgame content (ranked) and you arent discriminated against since the main limitation is options.

The cheapest good mech is probably the firestarter or some other low tier mech, 7.5 mill to get 3 of them, another 2.5mill to armor/heatsink them, 1-2 mill for weapons, maybe 6 mill for engines. 18 mill for your first set of modules. If you are a good player on a trial mech, you are going to farm about 600k per hour, so that would take about 36/.6= 60 god damn hours for your first CW viable complete mech, assuming you also have to farm exp on some of your less optimal firestarter variants.

If it was an assault, multiply those values by 3-4, and it would take about 180-240 hours of ingame time to farm a maxed assault.

And thats just 1, not to mention you then HAVE to buy mechbays because Piranha just wants to make life living hell for f2p players for somereason, maybe they think it might convert them into delicious whales. I guess I can see it working, I was tempted to buy a mechpack but I decided not to because of the horribly unethical pricing system in place. I hate league's prices, but this game just takes it to a whole new level.

[TWIAFU]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Game is already nearly impossible to f2p competitively unless you have been playing for ages. Each mech already takes about 12-20 mill to max out with armor/double heatsinks/weapons etc followed by 2x of its variants to skill tree it. Now there are modules for 3mill? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to just make them free and encourage players to spend more on mechbays and mechs? What does MWO have to gain from increasing the seal gap?

Lower cost for upgrades = more mechs bought = more mechbays bought = monies.

Grind= more powergap between low end and high end players= seals hate this game= seals leave this game

"OH but its not pay 2 win, Its pay 2 not grind"= wrong

"pay to not get clubbed, then pay to not get clubbed until I have a maxed out mech which would take about weeks of grinding, or months if you want a faction war deck"= right

Not going to say pay 2 win, actually no, I am going to say it. This game is as pay2win as heartstone. Don't have doctor boom? Unless you are vsing a skittle, you aren't going to win. We know this game lives off whales, calliing it pay2win is outright offensive to them, but it is the reality until it plateaus past the 4-8 maxed out mech set for faction war,

Compared to war thunder atleast if you have a maxed out tier 2 plane, you have a maxed out tier 2 plane. It takes a long time to get to tier4/5 but you can always fall back on tier 2 to have an even playing field. It doesn't exist for new players in MWO since it takes weeks to max out a single mech. Any veteran who disagrees the skill tree doesn't make a difference especially in close range brawls are just white knighting this game.

The only reason I am still playing this game is because I'm a mechwarrior fanboy, but I'm going to abstain from supporting it until the F2P crowd can actually play it more viably without disadvantages such keeping up with mechs who have +25%wep cooldowns +20%max heat efficiency etcetcetc.

Once I can actually see being F2p being viable without spending months to build a deck, I'll gladly throw money at the game and spam mechs and bays because that way, I know I don't have to grind another month just to upgrade my armor/weps/modules/skills/etc.

I doubt anyone here can say they have every mech unless they spent ridiculous amounts of money, so there will always be incentive to spend money in this game as long as there are mechs being released.

Say no to grind, not in mechwarrior atleast.

[5LeafClover]

You seem to genuinely want to get involved in big stompy robots and I have at least some sympathy with the points you're making. I'd suggest just giving MWO a shot for 2 months. It may not feel as bad as it first appears. Desipte the tough base level grind, PGI are good at doing sales, achievable challenges and generally giving away free stuff.

On the topic of the pay model (nominally F2P), it's actually very flexible and you can make of it what you want (within reason):

1. Free trial period - Pay nothing and play for as long as you want to try it out.
2. Free game - Genuine free to play, with a sadistic level of grind (not recommended, but possible)
3. Crappy iPhone games - For those that like to waste money without thinking, just buy what you want, when you want (also not recommended)
4. Subscription style, e.g. World of Warcraft - Pay your $10ish a month to buy premium time (Or $50/y if you make use of the right sales).
5. Collect as you go, e.g. Skylanders - Treat yourself to a (on sale) hero mech every once in a while. Immediately cuts the chassis grind by 1/3, plus gives you 30% cbills bonus to get the other 2.
6. Pay once, e.g Elite Dangerous - $80 for an IS mech pack of 4 chassis is not cheap, but it works as a 1 off purchase to a CW-able drop deck.

Personally, I use a mix of 4 & 5 for a (for me) affordable way of having fun. Exluding heroes or loyalty mechs, I have 40 that I either ground or won (should be 5 or 6 higher, but I sold them). This is despite being a casual player with big breaks of 3-6 months from the game. So at worst, it's been about 2 weeks per mech.

The issue is. you seem to have settled on needing a maxed out, Tier 1 comp, drop deck to have fun. And to get that with neither gold nor grind. I'd encourage you that that's not necessary to have fun. Loads of us are levelling sub par mechs, minus modules, all the time. There are also plenty of folk that have drifted up into Tier 1 that now want out as casual fun has been replaced by competitive stress.

My last tip is to play with friends in the group queue. Small groups of 4 or less have a huge tonnage advantage. It's much more fun that the grind just happens in the background without you noticing it.

Edited by 5LeafClover, 06 February 2016 - 05:44 AM.

[the punk who stole your thunder]

There are also events, tournaments and sales to ease the grind.