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Why Are Modules So Expensive?


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#21 Johnny Gorbachev

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 03:51 PM

View PostMrJeffers, on 05 February 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:


Then by that logic tiers of equipment in other games are not really content because the primary advantages of them are higher health/higher damage/higher range relative to their lower tier counterparts.


There aren't many games that actually use tiers of equipment, except MWO. WT doesn't have tiers of weapons, just planes. Idk what games you are refering too because I haven't really seen them. Idk if WoT uses them, I don't play that game, and WoT isn't an excuse for MWO to go down this route. The only real F2p games that I have seen have major weapon tiers are games that revolve around PvE. Warthunder doesn't have "Increase DPS" upgrades, the most you will find is an accuracy buff.

League has runes which can be seen to reflect your statement, but at least they aren't absurdly expensive and not intentionally designed to increased grind justified as content. 2x runepage is generally enough for most competitive soloque players up to about diamond, after that you might need abit more (which is abit more grind, but nothing compared to MWO).

#22 Monkey Lover

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 03:59 PM

Ya I do have a lot of modules I have worked for over the last few years but I all so have lots of mechs and I don't hunt down modules because they're really not worth it.

Really if they were any cheaper I wouldn't have anything to spend cbills on ha-ha.

#23 Johnny Gorbachev

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:04 PM

View PostMonkey Lover, on 05 February 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

Ya I do have a lot of modules I have worked for over the last few years but I all so have lots of mechs and I don't hunt down modules because they're really not worth it.

Really if they were any cheaper I wouldn't have anything to spend cbills on ha-ha.


You can play on my account and farm me some ccbills. Hey I just created more "content" for you, and since the game isn't pay2win im sure you won't mind my garbage unmaxed mechs <3.

#24 Dan Nashe

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:15 PM

MWO is the game that convinced me f2p games are too expensive. $500 won't get you a full game. Heck, that's one ship in star citizen and they sold like 1000 of them in hours.

But I'm off topic. Prior to CW you could start a new account and join a top tier 12 man in weeks. 30 mill for the mech and 2 variants (call it 150 a game, 200 games, 5 a day for 40 days), 3 modules 12 mill add 60 games/12 days.

Now to get a tier one DECK you need 4 times that plus more modules. So I can feel the complaint.

I own 49 mechs and 6 modules. Modules are an annoying grindy tax.

I understand the feeling but think it's wrong.

Also, Pay $70 in MWO get 2 hero mechs, 6 regular chassis, like 3 mo premium time, and grind on heros. You can join a top end competitive team in a month, and make enough c bills to adjust to the meta without ever spending another dime, and playing an hour a night, 5 nights a week.

TL;DR I dislike F2p pricing and literally think module costs are the worst part of this game because they double mech costs if you can't or won't swap modules. BUT I think MWO is the best F2p game, easiest to be competitive in of its type. (What is in its genre? World of blank? Star citizen?). It's way easier to get the mech you want than, say, building a top tier deck in Hearthstone.

P.S. is MWO perfect? Heck no. But I don't know of any comparable game that does it better.

Edited by DanNashe, 05 February 2016 - 04:17 PM.


#25 Monkey Lover

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:15 PM

View PostJohnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:


You can play on my account and farm me some ccbills. Hey I just created more &quot;content&quot; for you, and since the game isn't pay2win im sure you won't mind my garbage unmaxed mechs &lt;3.


I would help out my unit members to if PGI allowed me. I would donate modules and mechs to new members.

#26 jaxjace

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:17 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 05 February 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Unless this is your F2P game, you know Grind 2 Play is the name of almost ALL F2P.

Also, Modules? Give you 10% max to range, 12% max to cooldown, both factors which are small enough to be nearly unnoticed in Tier 4-5 where a new player is located...more so since those tiers are largely populated by other new players who likely haven't procured modules yet, either.

Also, I am in Tier 2 and moving steadily to tier 1, and have weapon modules on very few mechs. Unless you are playign Comp Level their impact is highly overrated.


Cough uninformed bishop is uninformed, Modules make a heck of a difference in ALL levels of play, do you know what it means to fire an ac20 12-15 percent faster? it means the enemy in front of you dies before you do, GG.

OP its a grind wall, build a ladder
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b419dc78fb682cc
and get over it.

View PostJohnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Game is already nearly impossible to f2p competitively unless you have been playing for ages. Each mech already takes about 12-20 mill to max out with armor/double heatsinks/weapons etc followed by 2x of its variants to skill tree it. Now there are modules for 3mill? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to just make them free and encourage players to spend more on mechbays and mechs? What does MWO have to gain from increasing the seal gap?

Lower cost for upgrades = more mechs bought = more mechbays bought = monies.

Grind= more powergap between low end and high end players= seals hate this game= seals leave this game

"OH but its not pay 2 win, Its pay 2 not grind"= wrong

"pay to not get clubbed, then pay to not get clubbed until I have a maxed out mech which would take about weeks of grinding, or months if you want a faction war deck"= right

Not going to say pay 2 win, actually no, I am going to say it. This game is as pay2win as heartstone. Don't have doctor boom? Unless you are vsing a skittle, you aren't going to win. We know this game lives off whales, calliing it pay2win is outright offensive to them, but it is the reality until it plateaus past the 4-8 maxed out mech set for faction war,

Compared to war thunder atleast if you have a maxed out tier 2 plane, you have a maxed out tier 2 plane. It takes a long time to get to tier4/5 but you can always fall back on tier 2 to have an even playing field. It doesn't exist for new players in MWO since it takes weeks to max out a single mech. Any veteran who disagrees the skill tree doesn't make a difference especially in close range brawls are just white knighting this game.

The only reason I am still playing this game is because I'm a mechwarrior fanboy, but I'm going to abstain from supporting it until the F2P crowd can actually play it more viably without disadvantages such keeping up with mechs who have +25%wep cooldowns +20%max heat efficiency etcetcetc.

Once I can actually see being F2p being viable without spending months to build a deck, I'll gladly throw money at the game and spam mechs and bays because that way, I know I don't have to grind another month just to upgrade my armor/weps/modules/skills/etc.

I doubt anyone here can say they have every mech unless they spent ridiculous amounts of money, so there will always be incentive to spend money in this game as long as there are mechs being released.

Say no to grind, not in mechwarrior atleast.


OP you arent wrong at all, its Pay2HaveBestChancesPossibleWithoutGrindingandLoweringYourKDR, however the warthunder analogy works well here, say you take a brand new tiger tank, yes it can kill a mastered tiger, even beat everyone in score, but its not playing to the BEST of its abilities, howver like in warthunder you can buy your way to mastery, but that doesnt make you instantly good.

Edited by jaxjace, 05 February 2016 - 04:23 PM.


#27 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:22 PM

View PostJohnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:


You can play on my account and farm me some ccbills. Hey I just created more "content" for you, and since the game isn't pay2win im sure you won't mind my garbage unmaxed mechs <3.


*cue old grandpapy voice*

Back in my day we had to grind out our cbills using unupgraded stock mechs, had groups mixed in with the solo queue, made 50% less cbills per match, and didn't have any cadet bonus, tutorial fund, or information to get us started up! We were so grateful when we finally got player made trial mechs that we didn't even mind that we only had a single option per weight class.

You kids these days and your 20 million cbill training bonuses and your fancy choice of 16 different trial mechs at any given time. You get much higher wages than we did and now you want to be fully loaded out in even less matches!

*goes back to nappin' in his Atlas*

Spoiler


#28 Wintersdark

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:01 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 05 February 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Unless this is your F2P game, you know Grind 2 Play is the name of almost ALL F2P.

Also, Modules? Give you 10% max to range, 12% max to cooldown, both factors which are small enough to be nearly unnoticed in Tier 4-5 where a new player is located...more so since those tiers are largely populated by other new players who likely haven't procured modules yet, either.

Also, I am in Tier 2 and moving steadily to tier 1, and have weapon modules on very few mechs. Unless you are playign Comp Level their impact is highly overrated.

Yup. They make a difference at the bleeding edge, but for 99.999% of players, you don't win or lose due to modules. They just don't matter that much.

After all, even the Cooldown module isn't all gravy: Sure, your weapons cycle faster, but then they generate heat quicker too - it lets you burst a little more, but doesn't actually increase your overall DPS output.

#29 Johnny Gorbachev

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:06 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 05 February 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

Yup. They make a difference at the bleeding edge, but for 99.999% of players, you don't win or lose due to modules. They just don't matter that much.

After all, even the Cooldown module isn't all gravy: Sure, your weapons cycle faster, but then they generate heat quicker too - it lets you burst a little more, but doesn't actually increase your overall DPS output.


Luckily you can compensate by having elite mechs which also reduce your heat gain, so they actually do increase your dps out put. Not to mention range + cd makes it even worse. You can't argue in anyway that it paying money prevents you from getting clubbed.

#30 Wintersdark

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:10 PM

View PostDakota1000, on 05 February 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:


*cue old grandpapy voice*

Back in my day we had to grind out our cbills using unupgraded stock mechs, had groups mixed in with the solo queue, made 50% less cbills per match, and didn't have any cadet bonus, tutorial fund, or information to get us started up! We were so grateful when we finally got player made trial mechs that we didn't even mind that we only had a single option per weight class.

You kids these days and your 20 million cbill training bonuses and your fancy choice of 16 different trial mechs at any given time. You get much higher wages than we did and now you want to be fully loaded out in even less matches!

*goes back to nappin' in his Atlas*

Spoiler


What's awesome here is that, if anything, your understating things.

When I started, at the very start of open beta, I was thrown into matches against 8 man (8v8, yo) premades of veteran players. Most players at the time, see, had been playing for ages in closed beta, and open beta was just starting to there weren't a lot of pubbies yet. Trial mechs? All stock mechs. Buy your own mech? That's great! I bought my first mech, a Commando, and then discovered all all about the magic of Rearm and Repair. What's that? Oh, yeah, when the 8man veteran team on voice comms utterly destroyed me, I had to pay to fix my mech - which often cost me more than I earned. So I'd have to run trial mechs (with SHS stock builds) again to try to bank enough money to get my Commando repaired (or buy something that sucked less).

Drop into a match, and you'd see 3 other new players in the same boat, who bought Centurions... and didn't bother repairing them. They'd have no side torsos, no arms, just a pair of CT medium lasers. Well, you know they're not gonna carry the match, and thus you're going to die again, and end up losing even more money.

Good times, good times.

View PostJohnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:


Luckily you can compensate by having elite mechs which also reduce your heat gain, so they actually do increase your dps out put. Not to mention range + cd makes it even worse. You can't argue in anyway that it paying money prevents you from getting clubbed.



Note the T2. I've got 120 some mechs, and I use them all regularly. Maybe 8 have modules. The rest? I don't bother. Because they just don't matter that much.

I just bring modules to Community Warfare.

#31 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:12 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 05 February 2016 - 05:10 PM, said:

What's awesome here is that, if anything, your understating things.

When I started, at the very start of open beta, I was thrown into matches against 8 man (8v8, yo) premades of veteran players. Most players at the time, see, had been playing for ages in closed beta, and open beta was just starting to there weren't a lot of pubbies yet. Trial mechs? All stock mechs. Buy your own mech? That's great! I bought my first mech, a Commando, and then discovered all all about the magic of Rearm and Repair. What's that? Oh, yeah, when the 8man veteran team on voice comms utterly destroyed me, I had to pay to fix my mech - which often cost me more than I earned. So I'd have to run trial mechs (with SHS stock builds) again to try to bank enough money to get my Commando repaired (or buy something that sucked less).

Drop into a match, and you'd see 3 other new players in the same boat, who bought Centurions... and didn't bother repairing them. They'd have no side torsos, no arms, just a pair of CT medium lasers. Well, you know they're not gonna carry the match, and thus you're going to die again, and end up losing even more money.

Good times, good times.




Note the T2. I've got 120 some mechs, and I use them all regularly. Maybe 8 have modules. The rest? I don't bother. Because they just don't matter that much.

I just bring modules to Community Warfare.


Remember the good old 8 man Atlas death squads to farm your team that went half AFK due to the amount of farmers back then that would join a match then DC....

I had a dual PPC Hunchback and a Commando back then. Good times...

Sometimes I get flashbacks.

#32 Wintersdark

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:14 PM

Seriously, dude, they just don't matter that much.

When I get new mechs (which I do all the time, I'm somewhat of a whale I'll admit), I don't even get their basic skills until I've got enough XP on all of them to at least get all my elite skills on every mech.

I don't equip modules at all on any of them.

Yet I had no problem climbing to T2, and am still climbing; I've got a solid 1.2 wlr overall in solo queue play, and a large portion of those are in mechs I'm levelling up (so they're lacking even basic skills).

But, that aside, those skills? It takes around 10 matches to get enough XP to get your basic skills in a mech (heat efficiency, yay!) That's nothing. It's trivial. Even if it takes twice as long, you only need 1750xp to get Cool Running and Heat Containment. Two matches without premium or good performance.

#33 Deathlike

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:23 PM

I can safely tell you that investing in the Cap Accelerator is worthless primarily due to it "not working as intended" on the mode it was made for... Conquest.

It was something to use back in Open Beta (there weren't that many options...) Target Decay was a must have once upon a time. Target Info Gathering is equivalent to BAP (minus the ECM countering), but technically better (can't remove it off the mech).

Just invest in Seismic Wallhack and Radar Derp, and you'll eventually stand a chance with everyone else (plus upgrading all the relevant consumables to their "ultimate form").

#34 Wintersdark

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:24 PM

View PostDakota1000, on 05 February 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:


Remember the good old 8 man Atlas death squads to farm your team that went half AFK due to the amount of farmers back then that would join a match then DC....

I had a dual PPC Hunchback and a Commando back then. Good times...

Sometimes I get flashbacks.

Yup. Having a random assortment of unrepaired and generally crappy mechs vs. 8 fully upgraded, practiced Atlases... It was an interesting environment to learn in. I actually went a full month before I got my first fully legit kill (not counting kills on afk players, or unrepaired zombie mechs, or "stolen" kills). But, once you did it? Once you started holding your own? It was quite rewarding :)

I don't miss R&R, though, not at all. New players today, with all the struggles there are, have no idea what it used to be like :)

#35 Nik Reaper

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:29 PM

View Postoldradagast, on 05 February 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:


Yes, but the implementation in MWO is terrible compared to other F2P games.

Let's take World of Warships for example. While almost every upgrade there is a direct improvement to your ship (there are a few that are debatable), they are not all the same, and they generally fit a mix of the ship's game role and its historical nature. One vessel may get better anti-aircraft guns and more hitpoints, another may get longer range torpedoes, etc. It's not just a flat "kill things 12.5% faster" bonus for all ships.The total lack of roles and interesting and fun decisions to be made in the MWO module system is painfully obvious.

Additionally, MWO module system strongly encourages one of the game's annoying and anti-lore problems - weapon boating. Players rapidly figure out that not only is boating a single main weapon type easier to use in-game, but the module system also rewards it since you have to buy and equip fewer modules per mech if you boat weapons.


To be honest , you mostly only have 2 weapon slots anyway so you ether focus on one weapon or on 2 at most... but I don't really understand much of the angst about these themes. What I mean is this, we all know that free to play is free to grind, that is how they make money, skip the grind and money only elements: champs, heroes and skins + the only one I have a kind of a problem mech bays that you will need and will likely pay some amount.
All games I know of have the bias towards veterans being better with more/better equipment, there are games that do not do this like CS and some other like games, but those are buy to play and heck even titanfall had a weapon progression system so what I don't get is why the outrage?
I would have to ask the OP how does a new player, like him self, know for a fact that the enemy had modules? did he record a fight and timed the 0.x seconds that the enemy mech fired more often than he did? Not to say that the min 17.5% faster fire rate is ignore-able (module + mastery) but in most cases not the main reason you died or didn't kill.
Should they be less expensive, heck I'd like if everything was less expensive or the earnings were higher , as it is grind, but I consider my self a low paying customer who could have spent a lot less, if not for some colors I wanted, and who grinded my way to everything I have for ~2.5 years of play , all I can say is: it's a commitment and if that makes you uncomfortable well, run while you can , or pay her to keep her happy X) .

P.s. :
I understand the beginning scramble to secure the bare minimum to compete at a high enough place , to get something that works and sharpen it to it's maximum so you know it's not the build that is lacking, as I have an alt account, and the GXP is the biggest barrier a new player will have.. but in the realty of it you get gxp by just playing and you will not progress to a tier where you need and must have everything to compete by the time you can afford them, more so if you focus on a specific build that works. Also people play CS.GO and other shooter games just for the fun of it, there is no progression, no higher point to it, other than mby ones position on a ladder scoreboard, witch we should have at some point, and acquiring one set of those is not that hard or long at all, but if you want more... well pay or grind... pretty standard if you ask me.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 05 February 2016 - 05:39 PM.


#36 C I L L I P U D D I

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:35 PM

You guys are getting trolled so hard right now. The guy is obviously not a new player. You can tell by some of his posts, stating "new players never stay and never will..." That sold him out real quick like. Classic Bitter Founder's Syndrome.

dude knows waaaay too many acronyms and has a pretty thorough understanding of mech mechanics that new players don't even know exists. Just quit arguing with him and ignore his obvious troll bait and ridiculous opinions.

Let bads be bads. Wolves don't care about the opinions of sheep.

Edited by C I L L I P U D D I, 05 February 2016 - 05:38 PM.


#37 Johnny Gorbachev

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:57 PM

View PostC I L L I P U D D I, on 05 February 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

You guys are getting trolled so hard right now. The guy is obviously not a new player. You can tell by some of his posts, stating "new players never stay and never will..." That sold him out real quick like. Classic Bitter Founder's Syndrome.

dude knows waaaay too many acronyms and has a pretty thorough understanding of mech mechanics that new players don't even know exists. Just quit arguing with him and ignore his obvious troll bait and ridiculous opinions.

Let bads be bads. Wolves don't care about the opinions of sheep.


This game isn't that complicated, google a build, build it and play, you will be better than 80% of the playerbase. Next step is grind the ccbill, or grind with your credit card. Shoot too much your mech overheats. Want it to overheat less? Get modules/elite. This game has extremely similar mechanics to mw4, the only thing that is different is that all weapons are just hitscan and that there is the typical f2p grind garbage that you find every day. Saying that this game's mechanics take years to understand is abit of a stretch.

http://steamcharts.com/app/342200

Steamchart numbers aren't too impressive, but I guess since most of them are whales, it shouldn't bother the devs until it bothers the players.

#38 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:58 PM

Don't you know by now we just wait around for trolls so we can come up with some posts and then take time to relive our worst memories from our remember the wonderful times back in beta

#39 C I L L I P U D D I

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:05 PM

Hey bud, don't like having to earn things in game, can't imgaine how much you must complain IRL about having a job or college. Grinding out Modules isn't hard. If you were "better than 80% of the player base" you would know this. You grab a cbill variant, git gud and BAM you got modules and engines in all your mechs.

Bought 3 BLR's (Battlemasters) during the sell last week(for cbiils). Sold the crap engines and crap weapons they had on them. Bought an engine and weapons for the variant I wanted to start with. Basic'd it. Bought engine and weapons for next with the cbills off the 1st, basic'd it. Rinse and repeat for 3rd variant. Spent another few hours mastering them. After all was said and done I was 15mil Cbills positive after buying the 3 mechs, engines, weapons and modules for all 3. Thats 6 weapon modules and 5 mech modules. Just took a whee bit of effort and time. Oh btw that was all in Tier 1 Group queue. Probably would've taken half the time in Tier3-5 group/solo queue.

#40 Herr Vorragend

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:18 PM

What exactly, OP, do you want?
A completely mastered, fully equipped and moduled mech from the start on? If you are that lazy and easy-to-please...where is the challenge? Do you really want to play an online f2p game?

I think you might be happier spending your time in other activities. But if you decide to continue playing MWO: You will be matched with other people in your skillclass. They will have similar equipment like you. And mastering a mech can be hard even in higher tiers.
If you don't like grind in general: Spend some money. Get a hero mech and premium time.

Edited by Herr Vorragend, 05 February 2016 - 06:19 PM.






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