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#41
Posted 17 February 2016 - 10:01 AM
1. All Quirks removed from all mechs
2. Clan get 10 Pilots while IS get 12 (2 Stars vs. 3 Lances) in CW
That should balance the Clan weapons, speed and durability with the Quantity of IS mechs
#42
Posted 17 February 2016 - 10:30 AM
I would say tonnage could balance some of the issues, but unless IS mechs have strengths compared to clan mechs, tonnage is just going to buff the clan damage scores. Some of their teams are now looking for players to score 3,000 or 4,000 in CW matches. Tonnage only matters if it opens up new strategies due to tactical advantages.
Edited by MechregSurn, 17 February 2016 - 10:31 AM.
#44
Posted 26 February 2016 - 03:56 PM
habu86, on 10 February 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:
Except you compare same sizes which is a special sort of crime on itself. Clans got three options against IS med lasers:
1)Roflstomp IS with their cERM because cERM IS 1-ton slightly-less-powerful IS LL that also stacks in 6-packs.
2)Overpower and outrange IS with medpulses that hit like truck and got sensible duration.
3)Get closer (Is an option with mobility advantage) and beat IS in heat war with massed small lasers.
habu86, on 10 February 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:
So, IS need quirked mech just to get range simply MATCHED to clan. For rather inferior system in the first place. With Clans having better damage per beam AND per second (yes, 9/1.25 = 7.2, 11/1.5=7.3). Then, clans got better BASE range and that means that they'll get more bang from any extra stretch.
Also, clans got another ridiculous option of going a bit closer to make use of LPLs to trade with IS ERLs. And 45% more bang with actually superior burns start to hurt. A LOT.
habu86, on 10 February 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:
Just because IS ballistics are single shot doesn't mean they don't deviate. They do and that's why many won't bother with AC/20 at all while others will go at SL optimal before shooting one. Not to mention that IS ballistics are EXTREMELY lag-sensitive. I had quite some deaths shouting 2 AC/20 shells in short sequence for no damage simply because game will refuse to register these. Intentionally glitchy hitboxes doesn't help the matter.
Not to mention that Warhawk currently wields some really sick quirks, including IDDQD for your arms and considerable LT structure with fast yaw or, again, IDDQD without fast yaw. RT yields same bonus structure and extra missile/utility quirks.
habu86, on 10 February 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:
Except already mentioned Warhawk gets quirks for his arms, resulting in more velocity AND heat gen. TCs allow you to get up to 35% more velocity as well. Coupled with loads of other bonuses, too.
Or you want to talk about Adder with both considerable heat discount and extra PPC speed? With his flamer now not being a piece of locked equipment?
Non-ER PPCs got nasty flavor of 90m minimal range. Most mechs with bonuses for it permanently forced to go with XL engine, which makes them quite a glass. Yes, you may get some funny thunderbolts with speed of 35kmph shooting up to 10 charges in sequence, but in case of prolonged fire you could use these lasers as well.
Oh, and IS ERPPC is straight inferior to cERPPC. +1slot/ton for -2.5 point damage and -2.5 splash.
Edited by Confirmed Cheater, 27 February 2016 - 07:22 AM.
#45
Posted 26 February 2016 - 04:39 PM
habu86, on 10 February 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:
Yes, it makes up in missile spread which makes LRM 20 absolutely useless for everything but punching through AMS systems, it makes up in delivery pattern which disallows you to use LRM in confined spaces, it makes up in minimal range of 180 metres (Making full boating the most stupid option to go). In the mentime, little cutey fox may missile vomit at point blank and range with sufficient ammo despite being 30tonner. Why? Because his LRM10 doesn't weight 5 tons to start with! Oh, did I mentioned he got tighter spread both for LRMs and SRMs?
habu86, on 10 February 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:
Yes, that would be a tragedy… if it wasn't for the fact that these slow lights are now quirked harder than any IS ever been while Cheater posessing 7.5 tons after armor and too good to throw away ECM. All with respectable speed of 130kmph.
Stripping arms from armor allows for dual cERLL. WIthout it, you may opt for 6 SPL, 6SL with good heat, rather ridiculous (but hilariously capable) ERML peek boy or 4SL, 2SRM4 ECM'd jumper.
Yes, IS got some tricks in the sleeve. Locust that spontaneously goes boom. Commando which got extremely responsive hitboxes. Firestarters which got alternative walking profile, thus making them easier to aim for despite being lights. Oh, and Oxide which is a hero mech
#46
Posted 02 March 2016 - 12:07 PM
Stop the whine already its old and overdone.
#47
Posted 02 March 2016 - 01:29 PM
MechregSurn, on 10 February 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:
So because you haven't figured out the team movement and tactics that allow sniping to be viable...sniping shouldn't be a thing?
Sorry, but there is one map, where 3 or so IS mechs have a erll advantage. It is literally the Only IS advantage in the game.
Taking that away just makes this game worthless because clan mechs will simply be better in all areas, eliminating all strategy considerations.
You are quite clearly wrong as the mass exodus to IS mechs in the Merc units (228, MercStar) demonstrates that IS is currently easy mode.
Even after the nerf they have not immediately switched contracts in a huff back to clan side. So which do you think is better?
That'd be IS. Still.
Learn to build mechs. learn to teach tactics and strategy in pug matchs or join a unit with good coms. Then see suddenly how your woes disappear.
#48
Posted 03 March 2016 - 09:52 PM
#49
Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:01 PM
#50
Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:19 PM
Alaric Hasek, on 10 February 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:
You do the exact same range crap with gauss / PPCs / ERLL don't give me that B.S.!
That map is suicide for attackers no matter which side of the mech bay they're on.
#51
Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:40 PM
MechregSurn, on 03 March 2016 - 10:01 PM, said:
Hi I doubt you rememebr me but we played sfc unity campaign dynaverse about ten years ago. However you're failing to realize that there are several key IS mech advantages. I will list them so you can remember.
1. Laser Duration. Even without quirks like the blackknight has, the insanely low laser duration makes sphere mechs ridiculously superior to clan mechs when shooting a moving target.
2. Massive structure quirks. Let alone all quirks being superior for sphere side, the enhanced structure of the vast majority of sphere mechs gives them massive survivability and longer staying power than the squish timber wolf.
3. Customization. Unable to swap engine or upgrades, clan mechs are seriously disadvantaged in terms of potential loadouts.
There I've given you plenty to work with to develop a viable strategy. Enjoy!
#52
Posted 03 March 2016 - 11:40 PM
Glad to see you again! Were you part of my Romulans? I somehow remember a Borg cube with your name on it?
Anyhow,
1. Laser duration is helpful but in terms of damage per second, clan mechs still win on a vast majority of chassis.
2. Structure quirks without equal weapons aren't an advantage when compared to speed and firepower. That is like saying an oil tanker is a better warship than a destroyer. If IS mechs had equal firepower and speed, it would be an advantage but as it stands...it is just a way for clan players to score more damage with their massive alphas.
3. Customization, clan weapons and hs take up less slots thus allowing for more weapons per chassis. IS xl engines are a disadvantage, and the Speed differential between IS mechs is a disadvantage for team movement. Further, very few IS mechs are as fast as clan mechs...so the speed differential doesn't have any positive aspects for mechs above lights and the IS lights are all inferior to the artic cheater.
#53
Posted 04 March 2016 - 10:26 AM
#54
Posted 04 March 2016 - 11:53 AM
Clan mechs could pour out the damage, IS mechs could effectively tank.
This even makes sense lore-wise as many of the IS mechs have been handed down for generations: to survive the brutal Succession Wars that long, they'd HAVE to be well-made. Meanwhile, the Clan mechs just roll off the assembly line fresh. The Clans aren't resource- and tech-starved, so there's less focus on "tanky" mechs and instead more a focus on more elegant, damage-focused mechs.
Edited by Dawnstealer, 04 March 2016 - 12:10 PM.
#55
Posted 04 March 2016 - 03:15 PM
The Clan gets drop decks for three and the IS get drop decks of four.
Clan gets superior mechs that they love and the IS loyalists get more vehicles which are slower, less powerful, shorter ranged and squishier with an XL.
Balanced!
#56
Posted 04 March 2016 - 03:24 PM
Gorgo7, on 04 March 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:
The Clan gets drop decks for three and the IS get drop decks of four.
Clan gets superior mechs that they love and the IS loyalists get more vehicles which are slower, less powerful, shorter ranged and squishier with an XL.
Balanced!
Ummmm...I think you're kidding, but I actually DO think that an element that allowed Clan players to drop under-weight, or with fewer mechs, and have that net them more C-Bills or even rewards (maybe a grab-bag feature?) for every 20 tons or 1 less mech they choose to drop with.
You can't really enforce role-playing the Clans in a game like this, but you CAN incentivise it.
#57
Posted 04 March 2016 - 03:45 PM
Dawnstealer, on 04 March 2016 - 03:24 PM, said:
You can't really enforce role-playing the Clans in a game like this, but you CAN incentivise it.
Oh, I'm not kidding. Incentivisation occurs when the clan do more damage and make more cash while the IS get a fair fight.
Only for CW of course. Pug land still would be a Clanners paradise.
Balance would have to revert to an earlier iteration of Clan weapons but that would be fine.
Tonnage could be tweaked of course and would be (of course).
I think that if this is not instituted at some point then PGI is in a boatload of trouble between the Clan that want to OP the IS and feel hurt if they are not, and the resentful IS who hate having to fight a superior Mech on equal tonnage footing.
Ramp up the Clan power and reduce their presence in CW. I think it could go along way to assuring that expensive Clan gear gets used (big money in CW, big prestige Clan gear, extra damage being done vs. IS for cash) Epeen for the clan given the superior mechs and the IS can battle merrily along with a tonnage/numerical superiority.
Hell! The Clans might fight themselves for awhile instead of giving it up and ONLY fighting the IS.
The Federated Suns have left to become Clan since the *unnerf* of Clan gear and the nerfing of IS range bonus.
Getting IS fights is tough in CW. Instead I must go after unbalanced Clans in my IS gear...or change to Clan gear which is very expensive and time consuming.
Adjust CW to meet my proposed critera and all are happy.
#58
Posted 04 March 2016 - 03:47 PM
Comp friendly units such as 228,SJR,MS etc are proof that regardless of what side you play a good team is going to have a much higher chance of success. Yes I would agree that the IS is currently easy mode with a number of still over quirked mechs that can tank or be much more heat efficient then it should be leading skilled players to easily drop about 3000+ damage games
I would encourage all of you who haven't to try CW from both sides before commenting, See the difference in tactics the teams use. Personally I think Tonnage is a broken mechanic to be using to balance mechs example a 50 ton hunchback and a 50 ton nova don't pilot the same way despite being the same tonnage. There have been comps that use a Battle value system which is proven and I do believe is a much better way of offering balance to the teams
Of course having 12 mans regularly drop against skittles doesn't help things either and I think the que should be abit smarter about putting groups against each other and pugs against pugs
Edited by Chocowolf, 04 March 2016 - 03:51 PM.
#59
Posted 04 March 2016 - 06:07 PM
It is crystal clear that clan mechs are now ultra easy mode and only a foolish child trying to protect their favorite toy will deny it.
#60
Posted 04 March 2016 - 07:52 PM
MechregSurn, on 04 March 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:
It is crystal clear that clan mechs are now ultra easy mode and only a foolish child trying to protect their favorite toy will deny it.
Lying? Please by all means do correct me here I'm curious to hear it. As I mentioned that is my Personal opinion about it.
It is obviously clear that you do not agree with my opinion but it is just that an opinion nothing more. For me I regularly Score higher on my IS Second account then I do my Clan mechs when I drop CW having more mechs being just flat better.
Edited by Chocowolf, 04 March 2016 - 07:59 PM.
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