...and then he does it again....
4
85 replies to this topic
#62
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Posted 04 March 2016 - 11:11 PM
So, since PGI likes doing ham fisted approaches to fixing balance issues, I thought of something:
PGI just nerfed all the IS Energy Range quirks to 10% (which gives quirked IS mechs the same range as a cERLL while ignoring the existence of a TC)
Since IS ERLL weight 1 ton more each, take up 1 more slot each, and do 20% less damage per laser....
Lets balance it by giving the Clan standard cERLL build a TC2, which matches up the tonnage and crit slots of the IS brethren.
Which puts the cERLL at 740+5% range = 777m optimal
Instead of using a % based energy range quirk on IS mechs, lets just give them all a flat value:
cERLL w/ TC2 777m - 675m unquirked iERLL = 102m
Replace all 10% energy range quirks with 105m energy range quirks. This would also require change the isSL and isSPL to 90m optimal again.
This simple change also brings ML, LL, MPL, and LPL into a closer parity as well.
PGI just nerfed all the IS Energy Range quirks to 10% (which gives quirked IS mechs the same range as a cERLL while ignoring the existence of a TC)
Since IS ERLL weight 1 ton more each, take up 1 more slot each, and do 20% less damage per laser....
Lets balance it by giving the Clan standard cERLL build a TC2, which matches up the tonnage and crit slots of the IS brethren.
Which puts the cERLL at 740+5% range = 777m optimal
Instead of using a % based energy range quirk on IS mechs, lets just give them all a flat value:
cERLL w/ TC2 777m - 675m unquirked iERLL = 102m
Replace all 10% energy range quirks with 105m energy range quirks. This would also require change the isSL and isSPL to 90m optimal again.
This simple change also brings ML, LL, MPL, and LPL into a closer parity as well.
Edited by Adamski, 05 March 2016 - 02:51 AM.
#63
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 04 March 2016 - 11:59 PM
MechregSurn, on 04 March 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:
...and then he does it again....
I'm still waiting..... if your going to call someone out at least give me a reason why your calling someone out on something instead of just saying "your lying" it's not appreciated. Again I gave MY opinion but I guess you don't appear to know the meaning of the word
#64
Posted 05 March 2016 - 01:02 AM
Do you honestly think anyone believes you play better in IS mechs, but happen to play Wolf as you faction?
It is clear PGI either doesn't play this game or never plays as inner sphere. Otherwise trolls who constantly push to destroy the game wouldn't get any traction.
When one side is just better at every aspect of the game...that isn't a game.
It is clear PGI either doesn't play this game or never plays as inner sphere. Otherwise trolls who constantly push to destroy the game wouldn't get any traction.
When one side is just better at every aspect of the game...that isn't a game.
#65
Posted 05 March 2016 - 01:23 AM
Oh, and let me clue you in...
I spent 10years developing and administrating MechWarrior. I wrote the first automated planetary league in the early 90's, administered it and improved it for a decade, built maps that were of the same quality as original content in MW4. I understand balance and creating a fun gaming environment. So, spare me your faux outrage for being called to the carpet.
You state that you play IS mechs, so you must have noticed the decline in output for all IS mechs. Yet, you post here to keep your favorite toys better without a care that it is at the expense of this entire community.
I spent 10years developing and administrating MechWarrior. I wrote the first automated planetary league in the early 90's, administered it and improved it for a decade, built maps that were of the same quality as original content in MW4. I understand balance and creating a fun gaming environment. So, spare me your faux outrage for being called to the carpet.
You state that you play IS mechs, so you must have noticed the decline in output for all IS mechs. Yet, you post here to keep your favorite toys better without a care that it is at the expense of this entire community.
#66
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Posted 05 March 2016 - 04:21 AM
In the Battletech setting, having Clan tech be better in every way made sense, and it worked, because when you've got a tabletop game, nobody gripes about how many units you have on their side so long as both sides are balanced in value.
However, in MWO, I guess someone said that having a 5-on-12 match is badwrongfun, so yeah, It's pretty much a given that you've got to dial the clantech way the hell back to par for as long as this game isn't Single Player.
Personally, I like the idea of tech mismatch and uneven team numbers, so long as multipliers/dividers are given according to whether the target was higher or lower tech level.
So a clanner killing an IS player wouldn't be counted as a kill, but maybe 1/2 a kill. Likewise, an IS player killing a clan mech should be worth double-points.
We'd have to prevent IS and Clans from playing on the same team, though.
However, in MWO, I guess someone said that having a 5-on-12 match is badwrongfun, so yeah, It's pretty much a given that you've got to dial the clantech way the hell back to par for as long as this game isn't Single Player.
Personally, I like the idea of tech mismatch and uneven team numbers, so long as multipliers/dividers are given according to whether the target was higher or lower tech level.
So a clanner killing an IS player wouldn't be counted as a kill, but maybe 1/2 a kill. Likewise, an IS player killing a clan mech should be worth double-points.
We'd have to prevent IS and Clans from playing on the same team, though.
#67
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Posted 05 March 2016 - 05:59 AM
MechregSurn, on 04 March 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:
...and then he does it again....
Proving he has a point, and you´re just a hysteric that hates to see his EZ-mode go ?
And yep...this is a BARBED QUESTION, neh ^^
#68
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Posted 05 March 2016 - 06:24 AM
PGI, and everyone else that's tried to balance Clan tech since its inception, have failed to do so. They were introduced by FASA as a role-playing element, but rules-wise, they broke the game and are STILL breaking the game. They're SUPPOSED to be super-powered mechs piloted by nearly inhuman, super-warriors. The only reason the IS was able to stand against them, again in a ROLE-PLAYING game, was hubris on the Clan side.
The Clans intentionally nerfed themselves so make the fights more "fair."
Obviously you can't do that in a PvP computer game, so you have to balance it differently or one group's going to constantly be on the short end (IS), or the other's going to feel like their supermechs are nerfed into pointlessness (Clans).
My thought was rather than try to do this goofy quirks vs better stock, was two-fold:
1) Give IS Mechs STRUCTURE quirks. IS mechs are hundreds of years old in some cases, and handed down generation to generation. Something like that has to be well-built and tough. This will take some work and tweaking, but make the time-to-kill the same: IS mechs are harder to kill, but lack the super-light, super-ranged, super weapons of the Clans.
Additionally, you could add WEAPON quirks to the actual weapons - different makes of Medium Laser could have different strengths and weaknesses. You could have an economy built in so that even new players, and even us old-timers, could have something to spend money on. For example, a Magna Mk II Large Laser could have a longer range and longer burn time, while an Exostar Large Laser has a quick burn but runs hotter. Maybe the Nightwind Large Laser has a quick burn and longer range along with no downside, but costs twice as much C-Bills. And so on.
2) Overall, balance Clan range vs IS damage: lore-wise [don't you roll your eyes at me] Clans thought close-in brawling was distasteful and un-warriorlike, so they tended to avoid it. IS Mechs, in some cases [Hatchetman!] designed around getting right up in people's faces.
Embrace this.
Balance Clan weapon ranges vs IS damage. So Clan weapons are lighter and have a longer range - have them do slightly less damage, but the damage they do is more consistent over range. IS weapons, to balance this out, do more damage point-blank (or out to medium range), but then rapidly fall off.
An IS ER Large Laser would do 9 points of damage, but at 500m begins to rapidly drop down until it's little more than a flashlight at its max range. A Clan Large Laser would only do 7 points of damage, but would do that consistently out to 700m before slowly dropping off to its max range.
What you'd get is a more flavorful game of IS mechs trying to close that gap and Clan mechs trying to remaneuver to keep them at an advantageous range. Nowadays, Clan mechs just wade in with loads of SRMs and IS mechs have to play keepaway and poke (with the exception of LPL and MPL builds) - the exact opposite of lore.
The Clans intentionally nerfed themselves so make the fights more "fair."
Obviously you can't do that in a PvP computer game, so you have to balance it differently or one group's going to constantly be on the short end (IS), or the other's going to feel like their supermechs are nerfed into pointlessness (Clans).
My thought was rather than try to do this goofy quirks vs better stock, was two-fold:
1) Give IS Mechs STRUCTURE quirks. IS mechs are hundreds of years old in some cases, and handed down generation to generation. Something like that has to be well-built and tough. This will take some work and tweaking, but make the time-to-kill the same: IS mechs are harder to kill, but lack the super-light, super-ranged, super weapons of the Clans.
Additionally, you could add WEAPON quirks to the actual weapons - different makes of Medium Laser could have different strengths and weaknesses. You could have an economy built in so that even new players, and even us old-timers, could have something to spend money on. For example, a Magna Mk II Large Laser could have a longer range and longer burn time, while an Exostar Large Laser has a quick burn but runs hotter. Maybe the Nightwind Large Laser has a quick burn and longer range along with no downside, but costs twice as much C-Bills. And so on.
2) Overall, balance Clan range vs IS damage: lore-wise [don't you roll your eyes at me] Clans thought close-in brawling was distasteful and un-warriorlike, so they tended to avoid it. IS Mechs, in some cases [Hatchetman!] designed around getting right up in people's faces.
Embrace this.
Balance Clan weapon ranges vs IS damage. So Clan weapons are lighter and have a longer range - have them do slightly less damage, but the damage they do is more consistent over range. IS weapons, to balance this out, do more damage point-blank (or out to medium range), but then rapidly fall off.
An IS ER Large Laser would do 9 points of damage, but at 500m begins to rapidly drop down until it's little more than a flashlight at its max range. A Clan Large Laser would only do 7 points of damage, but would do that consistently out to 700m before slowly dropping off to its max range.
What you'd get is a more flavorful game of IS mechs trying to close that gap and Clan mechs trying to remaneuver to keep them at an advantageous range. Nowadays, Clan mechs just wade in with loads of SRMs and IS mechs have to play keepaway and poke (with the exception of LPL and MPL builds) - the exact opposite of lore.
#69
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- The Vicious
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Posted 05 March 2016 - 07:36 AM
MechregSurn, on 05 March 2016 - 01:02 AM, said:
Do you honestly think anyone believes you play better in IS mechs, but happen to play Wolf as you faction?
It is clear PGI either doesn't play this game or never plays as inner sphere. Otherwise trolls who constantly push to destroy the game wouldn't get any traction.
When one side is just better at every aspect of the game...that isn't a game.
It is clear PGI either doesn't play this game or never plays as inner sphere. Otherwise trolls who constantly push to destroy the game wouldn't get any traction.
When one side is just better at every aspect of the game...that isn't a game.
We must be playing different games then. Or are you trying to play both tech bases exactly the same way? Because if you are, therein lies your problems. IS is cooler running, higher heat cap, better PPD than Clan. Clan has a range advantage, can potentially boat more weapons, but lower heat cap and hotter weapons nullifies that, and spread damage much more than IS does.
If you can't see that those factors alone (won't get into quirks that heavily favor IS) dictate different playstyles, then you can't be helped through your blinders.
#70
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Posted 06 March 2016 - 09:17 AM
Disregard MechregSurn, met him yesterday night in CW .
Not a good pilot, that one , despite his history with mechs .
Not a good pilot, that one , despite his history with mechs .
#71
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Posted 06 March 2016 - 10:16 AM
ice trey, on 05 March 2016 - 04:21 AM, said:
So a clanner killing an IS player wouldn't be counted as a kill, but maybe 1/2 a kill. Likewise, an IS player killing a clan mech should be worth double-points.
Regardless of score screens, that still results in one player taking out numerous other players.
The whole idea of having a different number of 'Mechs on the two factions facing each other is nice, but which side, do you think, is going to be more popular if one side gives you the super 'Mech to take on multiple players and get out on top, while the other has to rely on a numerical advantage?
At best, Clan tech superiority could be countered by giving a tonnage advantage to the IS. Which, however, makes mixed teams nearly impossible. I, thus, believe that the "equal but different" approach is basically the only solution left.
#72
Posted 06 March 2016 - 01:54 PM
http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry5063180 #ClanPeopleProblems
.. oh I pitty the clan players having to decide which superior weapon is most superior.
.. oh I pitty the clan players having to decide which superior weapon is most superior.
#73
Posted 06 March 2016 - 02:07 PM
Rad Hanzo, on 06 March 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:
Disregard MechregSurn, met him yesterday night in CW .
Not a good pilot, that one , despite his history with mechs .
Not a good pilot, that one , despite his history with mechs .
Yes, I am just horrendous... here is some context...
#74
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- 2,870 posts
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Posted 06 March 2016 - 03:07 PM
As I said ...
Your noobness shines through, this time even brighter .
Quote MechregSurn : "When each clan mech is as tough as our lances......."
With an extra of 300% cluelessness .
Fact is, you weren´t that precise in aiming as you easily could have been with those IS mechs and the guys dropping with you were also very spray and pray-prone.
Additionally you weren´t positioned as good as you could have been and you weren´t torsotwisting neither .
I´ll let you in on a secret though, just for you .
You see those 12 guys on the Clan side, yes ? I mean, I hope you do, even with your closing eyes from facts as witnessed from you recently and all that ...
They were all on TS, coordinating very well and having a dropdeck specifically for this map .
These 12 players had a DC, a plan, 4 mechs for the job and got bored like all hell while playing against you and the other 11 not very well coordinated players on the IS side.
And they were torsotwisting .... sometimes
Oh, and by the way : Avenger stole all your cookies from your dropships, as you can see from the scoreboard .
Oh you
That lack of cookies would get even the best man salty, I can understand that, but not the rest of your salt, that is, thank god, way beyond me .
Now please get back to driving your mechs and hopefully improving it while your at it .
You aren´t as good as you think you are, and still you go around trumpeting those mad 1337-haxxor skillz you "presumably" have into the world.
L2P, man, it´s not that hard, not really .
Your noobness shines through, this time even brighter .
Quote MechregSurn : "When each clan mech is as tough as our lances......."
With an extra of 300% cluelessness .
Fact is, you weren´t that precise in aiming as you easily could have been with those IS mechs and the guys dropping with you were also very spray and pray-prone.
Additionally you weren´t positioned as good as you could have been and you weren´t torsotwisting neither .
I´ll let you in on a secret though, just for you .
You see those 12 guys on the Clan side, yes ? I mean, I hope you do, even with your closing eyes from facts as witnessed from you recently and all that ...
They were all on TS, coordinating very well and having a dropdeck specifically for this map .
These 12 players had a DC, a plan, 4 mechs for the job and got bored like all hell while playing against you and the other 11 not very well coordinated players on the IS side.
And they were torsotwisting .... sometimes
Oh, and by the way : Avenger stole all your cookies from your dropships, as you can see from the scoreboard .
Oh you
That lack of cookies would get even the best man salty, I can understand that, but not the rest of your salt, that is, thank god, way beyond me .
Now please get back to driving your mechs and hopefully improving it while your at it .
You aren´t as good as you think you are, and still you go around trumpeting those mad 1337-haxxor skillz you "presumably" have into the world.
L2P, man, it´s not that hard, not really .
#75
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- The Nocturnal
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- Locationmy cockpit
Posted 06 March 2016 - 06:36 PM
Lol, I've just read this thread....
Well, for 2 weeks I've been Marik and Liao, and guys, believe me....it's been very easy mode.
Minimum dmg 2000, a couple of +3000dmg drops, 2200 average.
Really a lot of fun.
So, yes..... IS qquing about "clan OP" need huge amount of "L2P" pills.
I have arond 20-30 screenshots to prove this.
Feel free to ask
Well, for 2 weeks I've been Marik and Liao, and guys, believe me....it's been very easy mode.
Minimum dmg 2000, a couple of +3000dmg drops, 2200 average.
Really a lot of fun.
So, yes..... IS qquing about "clan OP" need huge amount of "L2P" pills.
I have arond 20-30 screenshots to prove this.
Feel free to ask
#76
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- Galaxy Commander III
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Posted 06 March 2016 - 10:16 PM
Ask.. But...Yes I also have plenty to support Stefka..
I just like to see his screenshoots..
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