28 replies to this topic

[NeoCodex]

Not a new player here, but I think this thread belongs here anyway.

So. I'm looking at my Jenner IIC collection in the hangar, with dreadful fear. I'm so close to T2 now, and yet these suckers keep looking at me telling me "you've spent money on us, you said you wanted to pilot the SRM monster with jumpjets so go on" but I'm affraid to pilot these things. Or any light for that matter, lately.

I just can't do nearly as good with them as everyone else seems to. They die fast, they don't have any range or damage, but when one comes at me they're always at full armor which seems to be made of dozens tiny UAVs and just outright murder me. And whenever you need them on your team, they're always split capping in conquest or taking enemy base, while you fight outnumbered and lose.

I really have a grudge with this class. And it current high point alpha laser meta they don't seem to have a place for me. But I need to master the JIIC, and continue climbing the Tier. It's a minigame of progress for me, just ignore it, but it's important for me not to lose or do bad while mastering that's the only thing.

Before you ask what I ussualy pilot it's long range sniper or harasser mechs, most common loadouts are LPL and gauss rifles, or extreme range LL builds. Mastered most of the mechs in the game, including lights, but still, it's just...

When Arctic Cheater came out everyone was all over it, but all I ever saw was the Ebon Jaguar. Sure, AC was a pretty solid light and my favorite build being 2 ERL on top (ye I know, lol) but it worked and I loved it. Still prefered Shadowcat with 3ERL or 2ERPPC personally, tough everyone says AC is milion times better. I don't see it. I don't like the lights. I don't seem to have this magic ability of ignoring 80% of the damage being thrown at you like most of them do.

Now, I prepared the top 3 JIIC builds suggested by Gman but I just can't find the courage to pilot them and tank my tier, because the last time I tried the enemy JIIC with about the same build just instantly murdered me while I did nothing that game. Haven't played them suckers ever since.

But I used to love SRM splat build on the Adder, but that thing was small and compact, you could easily hide with that small profile and wasn't really considered a threat so with smart positioning it worked for me (really played him more like an ambusher from the shadows), but the Jenner just seems too bulky and with the speed it has it makes me think I'm invincible but I'm really not, it just dies. I'm pretty sure I could still do better with an Adder, so what I am doing wrong? Don't get me started with the medium or small laser builds. That thing is so much cheese. I can never do decent scores with those builds, but the enemy lights? They're all like super saiyan all over the place, so I don't know how do you guys do it.. I must have missed something.

Edited by NeoCodex, 12 February 2016 - 02:33 AM.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

The adder you used it the way its meant to be used which was why you were successful with it. Artic Cheetehs when they came out had super magic hitboxes, but now they are I'd say inferior to the FS9. The Jenner IIC is possibly the light I fear most at the moment with its mass rack of SRM4's, The trick with them is to keep them out of the fight initially, doing some simple scouting, but when the brawl has commenced, then you can send them in once the enemy mechs are hot and they will be devastating.
Just like in a comp match which you have a brawl deck with, you dont send the lights in first, they come in after and rip people apart. Every time you fire an alpha, change direction, be unpredictable.
Perhaps your mouse sensitivity is wrong for you to be doing quick brawls in lights. SRM's and lights is very much snap shooting.
Go into training grounds and practice dancing all over and hitting legs on the mechs. So that you can get your eye in with SRM's then find a friend to fight you in a private lobby, nothing better than 1v1's to get you sharp.

Remember, when your weapons are reloading, you dont need to look at the enemy as your not firing. So show him where your mech is healthiest. If its your right side, run clockwise around him, if its your left, run anti-clockwise.

Edited by Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, 12 February 2016 - 02:52 AM.

[epikt]

In my opinion the most important skill in a light mech, especially a brawler, is situational awareness. You need to know where the enemies are, how many of them are looking at you ; you also know where your teammates are and what they are doing, don't stay too far away ; of course, you need to know the maps A basic training though I forced myself is to, for every move I make, I must have an escape route ready, just in case. It forces me to plan ahead, not to rush without being able to retreat.
Don't let LRM boats persuade you to keep them locks, that is NOT your job. And "scouting" does not mean you have to wander 1km away from your team.
Also, always pick unfair fights, focus on weak mechs and/or which are already engaged. Especially, never engage in a light vs light duel, even if you win it will leave you really beat up.
Oh, and legs are yummy. Yummy, yummy legs.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

If you're trying to SRM boat Jenner-IICs, welcome to semi-hardmode of lights. You're big, you're squishy (no struct quirks nor armor quirks to keep your fragile CT/STs up), and if you want to have any reasonable amount of ammo and heat dissipation, you're going to be slower than a laserboat Jenner.

As people have said above, you engage when your opponents are hot and the fight is joined. If you, as a brawling light, get noticed and tagged as the enemy's primary target, you are DEAD. No ifs, no buts. The key is to jump in when your heavies and assaults have committed, and you need to very quickly get behind their front lines and nuke the crap out of whoever happens to be distracted.

Lights, particularly anklebiters and SRM bombers, need to have a very specific mindset compared to other mech classes. You are there to deal damage. TONS of it. In a very, VERY short time, at very, very short range. Pick their most valuable target, and destroy it with extreme prejudice; do or die. You're literally in a human-guided torpedo. Get in, get the kill, and get out. Or die trying. No chickening out.

One thing that doesn't help the Jenner survive is the fact that the arms are absolutely tiny and block nearly nothing. Compared to the Adder and Kitfox, the Jenner doesn't have much to block ST shots with, and this is probably why you notice that you're dying fast and/or losing a lot of firepower very quickly. I found that SRM bomber lights tend to work extremely well in urban combat, where mechs travel slower and you have plenty of cover. Failing that, you could always play like a SRM bomber Adder and play escort to some heavies and assaults.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Epikt, but nothing is more satisfying than winning the light vs light duel

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Forget your tier. Go have fun. It's a F***ING GAME!

[Rogue Jedi]

NeoCodex, on 12 February 2016 - 02:27 AM, said:

Not a new player here, but I think this thread belongs here anyway.

So. I'm looking at my Jenner IIC collection in the hangar, with dreadful fear. I'm so close to T2 now, and yet these suckers keep looking at me telling me "you've spent money on us, you said you wanted to pilot the SRM monster with jumpjets so go on" but I'm affraid to pilot these things. Or any light for that matter, lately.

I am a light pilot, I spend close to half my time in-game piloting lights, and can win 1 on 1 light vs almost anything else not specifically designed to kill lights, if I can get behind a slow heavy or assault it seldom lasts more than 10 seconds. but in terms of match score and damage I tend to be more effective in mediums or fast heavies.

I will let you in on a few secrets, which I suspect most serious Light pilots know already.

A Light can make a major contribution to a match without high damage numbers, if I take down a heavy or assault early in the match with 100 damage I have pulled my weight, if I discover the enemy formation or find a Lance off on its own, tell the team and they use that information I have just been instrumental in our victory but none of that gets me much in the way of rewards.

occasionally when scouting an enemy player who is a great shot sees me and ends my game with 0 damage, that does not happen often but it does happen, maybe once every 2 months on average

if getting to tier 2 is important to you then get to tier 2, get the screenshot proving you are a tier 2 player then take out the Jenner IICs and be prepared because there is a chance they will drop you back to tier 3 then again there is a chance you will keep going up, but if you are scared to have fun because that means you will take longer to reach tier 2 then evaluate why you play and decide if it is to have fun or to be in tier 2.
ether answer is fine, just think about it and decide.

now for a few hints to help you excel in the Jenner IIC
avoid crossing open ground,
move from cover to cover,
attack isolated or distracted prey,
your primary prey are the big slow Mechs
if the enemy are grouped up stay out of sight until one side or the other push, then swing around behind/beside the enemy and start ripping the enemies rear armor and internal structure to shreds
do not overheat
do not be predictable,
do not stop moving,
do not be afraid to take risks,
do not be afraid to disregard any of the above, they are guidelines not rules,

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 12 February 2016 - 11:13 AM.

[Morggo]

Jenny Oxide is my girl, and when I first picked her up I had many of the same reservations (well, not the tier thing.. that part means little to me personally) ... the fear of taking the stick and getting stuck in.. I was so nervous that I found excuses NOT to take her out of the barn.

Just do it. As Rabbi said... and I get tier is important to you... but seriously and especially with lights... you're going to die. Often and a lot, and in big glorious fiery burst of slag. Especially at first. And no amount of prep is going to prepare you for this very different play style, only practice. If that is unacceptable I'd say you have two options.. 1) start an alt account just for your lights to keep them separate and insulate your Tier or 2) sell them and move on. No real middle ground here.

Mostly covered above but to summarize some of what I live by in Oxide (and all my lights really)

1. Cruise the back lines or flanks carefully the first few minutes, you are not looking to engage early else you become a target. Remember the enemy is looking to initiate contact and fight. Do not let that be you that takes the opening rounds.
2. This is mecha-chess. Always have your escape planned one step ahead/before you initiate your attack run. This takes map and situational awareness and is hard as you are always moving. No obvious escape route... then circle back around. Never be afraid to scrub an attack run (unless you've had a few drinks that have you feeling like gambling )
3. Random. Keep your movements random, avoid making multiple attack runs from the same point/line. They WILL pick up you pattern
4. Be a total arse. It's okay to pick on that poor mech with the bright red CT, or missing arms, etc. Those pre-digested meals are our bread and butter... we are the vultures here to clean up the mess our bigger brethren started.
5. If at all possible, plan your retreats on the diagonal where possible and into hard cover quick as possible. Avoid escape routes that show your backside, doesn't take much to splat us and that is a common Light mistake.
6. Oh, and as Epikt said... legs. Om nom nom.. nothing better than all you can eat legs.... once you leg that heavy or assault... there's no way they'll pivot on you.

Anyway, my advice is pretty much in line with the others above. Biggest tip though that I can give is.... Just saddle up, get out there and start running those IIC's.... give them a fair shake... but after a good period of attempts (and I'm not talking a night or two.... they do take time to learn) if you are just not clicking Lights may just not be for you. Absolutely no shame in that. I reckon few pilots are aces in all four weight classes.

Cheers and (hopefully) welcome to the Light Family!

[S 0 L E N Y A]

TheRAbbi, on 12 February 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

Forget your tier. Go have fun. It's a F***ING GAME!

This, so very much.
Plus
1) it is pretty damned hard to go down in tiers
2) tier 3 may as well be tier 2 or 1.
3) going up tiers gets you nothing

[epikt]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 12 February 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

Epikt, but nothing is more satisfying than winning the light vs light duel

Yeah, I know.
But I'm of the sneaky coward kind, I prefer to cut your leg from behind and leave my Direwolf friend finish the job, so I don't take any damage in the process and can keep on killing the baddies.

[mailin]

Surviving in a Jenner IIC really requires a LOT of situational awareness. One of the hallmarks of decent light drivers is knowing which mechs to attack and where to attack them. I'll be honest with you, when I see a Jenner IIC hitting the rear of my fatties I will rush in in my Spider 5D with 3 mplas and if he stays there, he will be legged by me. I will then leave him to let the fatties take their revenge.

DO NOT BE THAT GUY. Do not stick around long enough for help to arrive. Instead, get in, strike and get out. Do not engage enemy lights. That isn't your job in that build.

[The Mecha Streisand]

This game is a lot more fun (especially in light mechs) when you ignore that PSR tier and play your game.

Time for some MWO Genesis. In the beginning, there was nothing. And PGI saw this, and said, "Let there be Forest Colony!". And so it was. Blah blah blah, fast-forward to day fourteen or something, and PGI was all like, "Uh Screw it. Commandos. We're tired, and there's still all that netcode junk to fix."

At that point, lights were really scouts and harassers, and the snipey and brawly ones were yet to appear. (RVN-3L metaRaven came along in early 2014, at least a year and a half in, before which most Ravens had MLs and Streaks.) And the five Ds of Dodgeball were our false idol or something: Dodge, Dip, Duck, Dive, and Dodge.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a velocity-quirked PPC. So do that.

[B0oN]

Hmmmm, Jenners.... I <3 them, from the deepest pits of that hell I call my heart .
Very, very formidable weaponplatforms, BUT : they do not forgive any errors whatsoever due to their hitboxes .

And yes, I fully admit of being guilty of legging light mechs with 5xSRM4 ... because : LEG EVERYONE, EVER !

Oh, and to follow some othere guys in this thread :
Piss on your tier (worthless, totally worthless) AND HAVE SOME MECHFU-FUN AGAIN .

Now drive them little beasts, go on

[Tickdoff Tank]

To me, there is nothing more deeply satisfying than blowing a leg off a Jenner. It is an almost spiritual occasion for me. And I suck HARD at playing lights. I am a medium/heavy pilot. I tip my hat to all of you light pilots, you have big brass ones, and a lot of skill to pull off some of the crazy stuff I see you doing. But I am still shooting at your legs.

[mailin]

Tickdoff Tank, on 12 February 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

I tip my hat to all of you light pilots, you have big brass ones, and a lot of skill to pull off some of the crazy stuff I see you doing. But I am still shooting at your legs.

Tips hat, and right back at you with the leg comment.

[B0oN]

Legs !
Legs strewn about errywhere !
<3

Oh...lest I forget : don´t hop from a legged target to something more "threatening" ... legging a guy and leaving him sometimes transforms the mech and his pilots into SUPERSAYAJINS, which then proceed to happily hobble about and absolutely murder stuff ... as in :
"How dare you stealing my leg ... I SHALL STEAL YOUR LIFE NOW FOR SURE !"

[Kyynele]

I'd suggest picking up your ACH first, and load it up with the 6 SPLs and an ECM you should have in it. If you haven't got the double basics in it yet, you can try 5 SPLs in the mean time to have more manageable heat.

And why: the SPL ACH and Jenner IIC play pretty similarly, you have to get close, and when you do get close, you tear mechs apart. ACH with it's ECM is much more forgiving, if you at some point do the stupid, instead of the whole enemy team noticing your stupid, it may be just the 1 mech and you can get away. In non-top tier games, you often get to solo kill stray enemies without anyone in their team even noticing. When you get comfortable with that, you should do ok with the Jenner as well. The Jenner is much less forgiving, but hurts enemies even harder.

Good luck.

[Rhavin]

Finding the innersphere LRM boats on maps is so fun when you are in an SRM boat.

[epikt]

Rad Hanzo, on 13 February 2016 - 04:43 AM, said:

Oh...lest I forget : don´t hop from a legged target to something more "threatening" ...

Sometimes I find it useful to disengage just a bit after legging a mech. Sometimes the second leg is hard to hit, good players know how to protect it, and they have nothing to lose : an inconsiderate move can cost you an alpha strike in the face. It might be a good move to disengage and then safely place a good finishing blow.
For similar reasons when I duel I tend to chew both legs at the same time.
(but, well, it depends)

[Dan Nashe]

Also remember the game does not really reward winning or contributing to a win in a light: Lance formation probably means you're doing something wrong because lights don't fight in a line . . .

If you have 11 mechs on your team deathballing, while you cap 4 points, and then the 11 mechs all die, and winning or losing comes down to you 1 v 1ing a nova on a cap point, and you succeed and win, you may not even get credit towards the event, because if you don't deal near 200 damage, the game doesn't recognize that you've contributed. :-) Drawing 4 enemy mechs out of the main battle is worth 0 points. Having the ac20 miss you instead of hitting your heavies is worth 0 points. Killng a catapault LRM boat by coring out it's back is worth like 60 points.

Also, if you want to really make money/get a high match score, ignore lights. Let the heavies and mediums kill lights. Focus on doing damage to bigger things, you'll get a lot more money/points/match score. . . at least that's my experience.

And you have to constantly adjust your strategy. If their lights are harassing your missile boats, you have to protect the missile boats. If they have a 12 man deathball, you don't want more than 1 light capping objectives, the other 3 need to help fight. If they have 1 light capping, you don't want to send more than 2.

And definitely pick your battles. . . a lot. The hardest thing about a light is not being afraid to run away.