82 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Are less effective than they were 1.5 years ago.


With 6 MGs, you get 4.8 DPS
Add 20%
5.76 DPS


MGs used to deal 1 DPS, all the time...then everything changed when the Clams attacked.
For some odd reason, MGs were nerfed out of the blue due to that "hitreg" fix.


^StJobes chart^

We are on day 605...with worthless machine guns. Even with a significant RoF buff, they only gain 2 extra shots, 1.6 extra damage, while they lost a full 2.



On the bright side, the Arrow didn't get a 5% MG RoF...dat 20th of a bullet faster is SO important.

[mogs01gt]

Well, machine guns were rarely used vs mechs in Lore. So why should they even exist in MWO?

Edited by mogs01gt, 12 February 2016 - 01:44 PM.

[Mcgral18]

mogs01gt, on 12 February 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Well, machine guns were rarely used vs mechs in Lore. So why should they even exist in MWO?

Why should a mech grade weapon be used against a mech?

What kind of silly question is that?

[mogs01gt]

Mcgral18, on 12 February 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

Why should a mech grade weapon be used against a mech?
What kind of silly question is that?

Machine guns were used on mechs for infantry. We have no infantry so machine guns shouldnt exist.

What do you mean by "mech grade weapon"?

[Mcgral18]

mogs01gt, on 12 February 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

Machine guns were used on mechs for infantry. We have no infantry so machine guns shouldnt exist.

What do you mean by "mech grade weapon"?

You know, half ton weapons designed to remove armour?

[Red1769]

*sigh* Machine Guns weren't just for against infantry, but also against light mechs and vehicles. They weren't harmless against mechs or anything like that, they still did 2 damage to them, the same amount as a small laser.

Obviously I'm for a buff to the poor thing...

Edited by Red1769, 12 February 2016 - 02:03 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

I always thought it was an intentional nerf to control the Ember. I remember when that thing was stupid scary for like, 2 months.

We can't have nice things.

[FupDup]

Every time somebody says that TT MGs couldn't hurt mechs, Kerensky kills an Urbanmech IIC.

[wanderer]

Quote

Well, machine guns were rarely used vs mechs in Lore. So why should they even exist in MWO?

They're actually frequently used as backup weapons- the three most common (by an immense margin) designs in the Inner Sphere are the Locust, Stinger, and Wasp.

Two-thirds of those are using machine guns. Trust me, they get plenty of use against smaller and softer targets, other 'Mechs included.

[Wintersdark]

mogs01gt, on 12 February 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Well, machine guns were rarely used vs mechs in Lore. So why should they even exist in MWO?

Don't be stupid.

"In Lore" - as in stock mech builds - Machine guns are present on LOT of different mechs. They weren't used in tabletop play often because the explosive ammo was detrimental, but TT has different ammo explosion rules and that right there is a TT balance issue, not a "lore" issue.

Keep in mind, "In Lore" machine guns do the same damage that freaking AC/2's do.

[Trauglodyte]

Disregarding Lore, why should Light mechs under 35 tons get butt ***** because MGs, and Flamers for that matter, are utter garbage in this game? For that matter, why are all projectile weapons, sans the UAC5 and AC20 on a couple of builds, complete garbage compared to lasers? Do the slobbering idiots of the world really need their hands held that much more?

[Tyler Valentine]

mogs01gt, on 12 February 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Well, machine guns were rarely used vs mechs in Lore. So why should they even exist in MWO?

Wintersdark, on 12 February 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Don't be stupid.

"In Lore" - as in stock mech builds - Machine guns are present on LOT of different mechs. They weren't used in tabletop play often because the explosive ammo was detrimental, but TT has different ammo explosion rules and that right there is a TT balance issue, not a "lore" issue.

Keep in mind, "In Lore" machine guns do the same damage that freaking AC/2's do.

I think mogs01gt is referring more to the novels than the TT version of the game. In most of the books machine guns were regarded as infantry weapons or not mentioned at all. William H Keith Jr. gets into a little more detail in his Saga of the Gray Death Legion books describing them as 20mm (not 30mm like the GAU-8 Avenger Mcgral), having a very difficult time penetrating the light head armor of a Wasp, and calling them "useless against heavies!".

I like having them in the game, just thought I would post for clarification.

[STEF_]

mogs01gt, on 12 February 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

Machine guns were used on mechs for infantry. We have no infantry so machine guns shouldnt exist.

What do you mean by "mech grade weapon"?

LOL NO!
Infantry (and Vtol, and armored car, and so on) SHOULD exist!


edit: and yes, look at mw2/mw3/mw4 for what mwo doesn't have.
MW2 is a more complete product than mwo.... 1995.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 12 February 2016 - 03:25 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Well, good thing they made Flamers a force to be reckoned with, right? Guys. GUYS.

Right?

[C E Dwyer]

Yes in table top they did 2 damage to mechs, and had all that lovely ammo that blew up, and only had one chance of a crit.

But as people keep saying this isn't table top, and the games not turn based, the MG makes an evil Crit machine, so why complain.

[1Grimbane]

PGI!!! BUFF MG'S!!!!!

[wanderer]

Let's not even mention that in non-tournament rules (TacOps) that the MG has two fire modes.

The 0-heat low RoF mode that does 2 damage per shot- and the "spin-up" mode that generates heat, chews up ammo at a much higher rate, but also significantly increases damage.

MWO MG's only have the low RoF mode, but distribute that damage like high-RoF mode. Part of the reason they're generally bad.

[Wintersdark]

Tyler Valentine, on 12 February 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

I think mogs01gt is referring more to the novels than the TT version of the game. In most of the books machine guns were regarded as infantry weapons or not mentioned at all. William H Keith Jr. gets into a little more detail in his Saga of the Gray Death Legion books describing them as 20mm (not 30mm like the GAU-8 Avenger Mcgral), having a very difficult time penetrating the light head armor of a Wasp, and calling them "useless against heavies!".

I like having them in the game, just thought I would post for clarification.

Yeah, but there's all kinds of stupid things in the books. A hell of a lot of REALLY stupid things that, if you wanted to start taking passages out of the novels as guidelines for how the game should work, things would go really sideways really fast.

The tabletop game is what all this is based on, and while mechanics don't transfer 1:1, machine guns where absolutely viable weapons against mechs. Same damage as AC/2. That's it right there.

Edited by Wintersdark, 12 February 2016 - 03:56 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Heat is a premium topic in this game.

A bank of 6 small Lasers currently generates ~38 heat in 10 seconds.
To make them heat neutral would require ~20 DHS (for discussion sake)

That's 23 tons of material.


How many tons of ammo and MGs can you mount for that?! How does 24 machine guns and 11 tons of ammo sound?


You can have 24 heat neutral Machineguns and 11 tons of ammo for the same weight as 6 heat-neutral small Lasers.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 12 February 2016 - 04:09 PM.

[Deathlike]

Prosperity Park, on 12 February 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

Heat is a premium topic in this game.

A bank of 6 small Lasers currently generates ~38 heat in 10 seconds.
To make them heat neutral would require ~20 DHS (for discussion sake)

That's 23 tons of material.


How many tons of ammo and MGs can you mount for that?! How does 24 machine guns and 11 tons of ammo sound?


You can have 24 heat neutral Machineguns and 11 tons of ammo for the same weight as 6 heat-neutral small Lasers.

Small Lasers does more damage when you need it, with less facetime.

You have to be more practical on how useful a weapon is based on how it is actually used, not based on numbers alone.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 February 2016 - 04:14 PM.