704 replies to this topic

[ilKhan_OrHan]

Nobody believed me when I said the Unseen mechs still have a good chance to be released. I was right about them and we have them in-game now.

http://mwomercs.com/...48#entry4367948

I say Blood Asp/Mad Cat Mk II are on the way. Precise ETA impossible to predict but most likely will be a while (several months if not years).

[CK16]

Personally I think your a little high on the Blood Asp horse a bit. You are thinking it would super God tier...Sure it had alot of high mounts however....so does the Jager and other mechs. It had to much above the cockpit going for it I feel. Yes the Mk.II does as well, however if you removed the missle ears, the thing would be simular to an Ebon Jag. Not saying the Blood Asp is bad, but it isn't miles ahead of the Madcat Mk.II, both have good strengths and weaknesses. The Madcat Mk.II had a much better chance of coming before the Blood Asp for many mentioned reasons. It is one thing to stretch or eliminate a system like the Hellbringer's anti Infantry Pods, it is another that a Prime varriant of a mech uses totally new weapons, that are different design and purpose. Replacing the Heavy lasers with ER ones for it to work is alost creating a fake mech, far more then ever before. Blood Asp would Ave to wait for new tech and weapons Mk.II would not. Plus the whole Omni vs Battlemech thing, each offer a different play style both deserve to be added, WHEN the time is right.

[Imperius]

ilKhan_OrHan, on 20 February 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Nobody believed me when I said the Unseen mechs still have a good chance to be released. I was right about them and we have them in-game now.

http://mwomercs.com/...48#entry4367948

I say Blood Asp/Mad Cat Mk II are on the way. Precise ETA impossible to predict but most likely will be a while (several months if not years).

I doubt years we have pretty much scraped what was left of the invasion Clan Mech wise. I'm sure the MK II is coming this year... I'm confident the next mech to be announced

[CK16]

Eh I would say a more optimistic guess would be end of Q1 to spring 2017.

[Archangel.84]

Imperius, on 20 February 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Who's alt is this?

Paranoid much? Damn, dude. Not everybody likes the abomination unto Kerensky, that's all.

Blood Asp... after timeline jump.

ETA: and there's plenty of other Clan Mechs available without going to the '60s.

Edited by Archangel.84, 20 February 2016 - 10:12 AM.

[Imperius]

CK16, on 20 February 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Eh I would say a more optimistic guess would be end of Q1 to spring 2017.

Thank god I'm a realist 2016

[ilKhan_OrHan]

Imperius, on 20 February 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

Please quit trying to spread that false assumption.

Spoiler

TIMELINE DOESN'T MATTER JUST TECH!

This doesn't disprove my theory, rather it reinforces it using Kodiak as your example. Kodiak has at least one variant in the timeline. Mad Cat Mk II would be the first mech in MWO history to have NO variants in the timeline to be introduced which would open the door to other mechs being introduced. That may be too against TL canon for some folks at PGI.

CK16, on 20 February 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

Personally I think your a little high on the Blood Asp horse a bit. You are thinking it would super God tier...Sure it had alot of high mounts however....so does the Jager and other mechs. It had to much above the cockpit going for it I feel. Yes the Mk.II does as well, however if you removed the missle ears, the thing would be simular to an Ebon Jag. Not saying the Blood Asp is bad, but it isn't miles ahead of the Madcat Mk.II, both have good strengths and weaknesses. The Madcat Mk.II had a much better chance of coming before the Blood Asp for many mentioned reasons. It is one thing to stretch or eliminate a system like the Hellbringer's anti Infantry Pods, it is another that a Prime varriant of a mech uses totally new weapons, that are different design and purpose. Replacing the Heavy lasers with ER ones for it to work is alost creating a fake mech, far more then ever before. Blood Asp would Ave to wait for new tech and weapons Mk.II would not. Plus the whole Omni vs Battlemech thing, each offer a different play style both deserve to be added, WHEN the time is right.

I never argued that Blood Asp has weapons out of timeline, I said it looks like both are a ways out regardless of weapon tech. If I had a choice of ST hardpoints being above or below the cockpit, I take above the cockpit every time. The poking advantages outweigh whatever geometry changes occur because of high mounted torso hardpoints. Mad Cat Mk II is UP without the missile racks IMO. Not enough hardpoints for solid Assault level DPS IMO sans missle hardpoints.

Omni vs Battlemech comes down to whether the mech was designed well in original lore to be effective in MWO more than mech style. Some IIC mechs like the Hunchback have proven to work very well in the meta because of strong hardpoints and hardpoint locations.

Hopefully we can have both in the near future and clan can continue to have all the best mechs in the game.

[pbiggz]

ilKhan_OrHan, on 20 February 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

This doesn't disprove my theory, rather it reinforces it using Kodiak as your example. Kodiak has at least one variant in the timeline. Mad Cat Mk II would be the first mech in MWO history to have NO variants in the timeline to be introduced which would open the door to other mechs being introduced. That may be too against TL canon for some folks at PGI.
I never argued that Blood Asp has weapons out of timeline, I said it looks like both are a ways out regardless of weapon tech. If I had a choice of ST hardpoints being above or below the cockpit, I take above the cockpit every time. The poking advantages outweigh whatever geometry changes occur because of high mounted torso hardpoints. Mad Cat Mk II is UP without the missile racks IMO. Not enough hardpoints for solid Assault level DPS IMO sans missle hardpoints.

Omni vs Battlemech comes down to whether the mech was designed well in original lore to be effective in MWO more than mech style. Some IIC mechs like the Hunchback have proven to work very well in the meta because of strong hardpoints and hardpoint locations.

Hopefully we can have both in the near future and clan can continue to have all the best mechs in the game.

Russ is crystal clear, the limiter is tech, not timeline. "tech tech tech", is that not clear enough? He could add the hellstar if he wanted, or enough people asked, but the chassis release year doesn't mean anything in MWO, since chassis are an abstract concept, even in battletech.

The MK II is almost certainly coming out this year. The blood asp, which I'd love to see, might not be, because we wont be getting new weapons for a while yet I expect, at least not until after the engine upgrade.

In any case, the only people who care about timeline canon and get butthurt when a new mech comes in thats even slightly outside of it are here on the forums, not at PGI. Some people were convinced we wouldn't even get a mauler until next year, because the daboku, the mauler's prototype variant that was critically flawed, was not the same mech technically, and the mauler itself didn't have enough variants with current tech. PGI then fudged the maulers, and nobody bats an eye.

The debate about the mk II on the other hand, has really been more of a witchhunt against imperius and anyone who agrees with him, because he's not all that diplomatic about his opinions, and he hurt somebody's itty bitty feelings, therefore people came out of the woodwork, some who barely even post, just to shoot him down at any chance they could.

Edited by pbiggz, 20 February 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[CK16]

Just for the sake of Blood Asp vs Madcat Mk.II, granted this is obased of the Mw4 Mk.II and MekTek Blood Asp but it is a rather interesting comparison



The Madcat Mk.II looks like hard points very similar to that of the Ebon Jag while the Blood Asp has very low slung arms like that of the Timber Wolf.

[ilKhan_OrHan]

CK16, on 20 February 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Just for the sake of Blood Asp vs Madcat Mk.II, granted this is obased of the Mw4 Mk.II and MekTek Blood Asp but it is a rather interesting comparison

Spoiler

The Madcat Mk.II looks like hard points very similar to that of the Ebon Jag while the Blood Asp has very low slung arms like that of the Timber Wolf.

You neglected to mention Blood Asp is an omni-mech which the B variant has a 4E LT omnipod which fits nicely in the meta. Similar to the Timberwolf A 3E LT omnipod but better. You didn't note the missile hardpoints on either mech as well.

pbiggz, on 20 February 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Russ is crystal clear, the limiter is tech, not timeline. "tech tech tech", is that not clear enough? He could add the hellstar if he wanted, or enough people asked, but the chassis release year doesn't mean anything in MWO, since chassis are an abstract concept, even in battletech.

The MK II is almost certainly coming out this year. The blood asp, which I'd love to see, might not be, because we wont be getting new weapons for a while yet I expect, at least not until after the engine upgrade.

In any case, the only people who care about timeline canon and get butthurt when a new mech comes in thats even slightly outside of it are here on the forums, not at PGI. Some people were convinced we wouldn't even get a mauler until next year, because the daboku, the mauler's prototype variant that was critically flawed, was not the same mech technically, and the mauler itself didn't have enough variants with current tech. PGI then fudged the maulers, and nobody bats an eye.

The debate about the mk II on the other hand, has really been more of a witchhunt against imperius and anyone who agrees with him, because he's not all that diplomatic about his opinions, and he hurt somebody's itty bitty feelings, therefore people came out of the woodwork, some who barely even post, just to shoot him down at any chance they could.

I'm not going to talk to someone using ad hominem attacks, I already disproved everything you are using as evidence to support your position.

/thread

[Wintersdark]

ilKhan_OrHan, on 20 February 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

I'm not going to talk to someone using ad hominem attacks, I already disproved everything you are using as evidence to support your position.

/thread

Well, no. Russ was very clear on twitter that if the mech uses current MWO tech, it's in the running. Period. 3-5 usable (that is, current MWO tech) variants being a strong plus - though PGI has shown it's willing to use a variant with oddball stuff that's not in MWO (Hellbringer) or mechs with insufficient variants (they'll make their own variant to fill a set). He doesn't care about the timeline, only about the tech. What people may think of that isn't really important. PGI's feelings on the matter are quite clear.

[CK16]

Eh, I thought about the missile racks, Those seem to play a little different then direct LOS weapons such as lasers and ballistic's I get your point but just showing EVEN with the B Omnipod the arms still are very low sung and you can't raise them so you are missing some fire power. The Madcat Mk.II could barely peak over Alpha and return to safety.

[CK16]

Just as well direct from TRO 3067...




NOTES:
-Book is dated 3067, mentioned production for the Madcat Mk.II had been underway for over 1/2 a decade (3061/2)
-Uses older cached weapons tech (The oldest available it states)

What does that tell you about the Madcat MK.II? It is even more possible then other chassis from this era and isn't as far out as the 3066, that is just when it was reported to start being sold, doesn't mean it was not in use by few Clans that received them through trials or gifted from Diamond Shark, OR Diamond Shark themselves using the mech. (AKA MW4 reference of the IS totally not aware of the design until they salvaged one.) I don't think it would take 5 years to assemble a single Battlemech, and even the research and dev was only 15 months before the production started (cut down significantly based off using Timberwolf design). This is very much a viable design for the game currently, and Russ has stated over and over again Timeline even for chassis means little and the Madcat Mk.II is viable along with such a Nova Cat and other Chassis that use ONLY current tech and weapons in 3 to 5 variants. And yes the Madcat MK.II dose have variants that could be strong enough argument for to use (refer to first post on thread here please).

[CK16]

Bump updated front page with another concept. and variants to models.

Spoiler

Odanan, on 14 March 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

CK16's Mad Cat MKII repaint template!

Edited by CK16, 18 March 2016 - 02:22 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

CK16, on 14 February 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

Mad Cat Mk.II:

90 Ton Inner Sphere Assault BattleMech (using Clan tech)

FTFY

You realize, I assume, the TRO is pointing out that Diamond Shark used the oldest versions of Clan tech available as a means to highlight why the Clans never used the mech unless they captured some. The TRO goes out of its way to say that the mech specifically appealed to Nova Cat and Wolf-in-Exile, who had left the Clans and joined the Inner Sphere, and their allied Inner Sphere houses, which were the only factions other than Diamond Shark itself ever to possess them.

While the MkII will probably be in the game at some point, we don't know what the state of the game will be when it finally drops, or which side of the war it will drop on. PGI hasn't yet come out to say how they'll handle mechs aligned with the Inner Sphere that use Clan tech.

The Nova Cat and Arctic Wolf from 3059 are the earliest mechs to present this problem, and many mechs released after that - especially those ones released by Nova Cat or Wolf-in-Exile (or ones like the MkII produced by the Clans for IS consumption) - don't follow the neat tech/faction separation we have in MWO so far. Starting in that year, we also have the problem of Inner Sphere Omni-mechs (you can thank the defection of Nova Cat for that), and Clan/Inner Sphere refits.

I don't know that we'll see the MkII until PGI can solve the tech/faction problem. With us sitting in 3053, not much of anything happens between 3053 and 3058 in terms of conflict, though a LOT happens in the realm of tech and faction allegiance changes. We should fully expect PGI to have to jump the timeline of the game to 3059 within the next year or two. It wouldn't surprise me if CW phase for puts us right in the middle of Operation Bulldog. Regardless, there isn't much time left on PGI's part to continue ignoring the Elephant in the room. If they truly wish to have 5 more years left in the life of the game, they're going to have to address 3059, and the problems the MkII and mechs like it present to the overall game.

[CK16]

ScarecrowES, on 18 March 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

FTFY

You realize, I assume, the TRO is pointing out that Diamond Shark used the oldest versions of Clan tech available as a means to highlight why the Clans never used the mech unless they captured some. The TRO goes out of its way to say that the mech specifically appealed to Nova Cat and Wolf-in-Exile, who had left the Clans and joined the Inner Sphere, and their allied Inner Sphere houses, which were the only factions other than Diamond Shark itself ever to possess them.

While the MkII will probably be in the game at some point, we don't know what the state of the game will be when it finally drops, or which side of the war it will drop on. PGI hasn't yet come out to say how they'll handle mechs aligned with the Inner Sphere that use Clan tech.

The Nova Cat and Arctic Wolf from 3059 are the earliest mechs to present this problem, and many mechs released after that - especially those ones released by Nova Cat or Wolf-in-Exile (or ones like the MkII produced by the Clans for IS consumption) - don't follow the neat tech/faction separation we have in MWO so far. Starting in that year, we also have the problem of Inner Sphere Omni-mechs (you can thank the defection of Nova Cat for that), and Clan/Inner Sphere refits.

I don't know that we'll see the MkII until PGI can solve the tech/faction problem. With us sitting in 3053, not much of anything happens between 3053 and 3058 in terms of conflict, though a LOT happens in the realm of tech and faction allegiance changes. We should fully expect PGI to have to jump the timeline of the game to 3059 within the next year or two. It wouldn't surprise me if CW phase for puts us right in the middle of Operation Bulldog. Regardless, there isn't much time left on PGI's part to continue ignoring the Elephant in the room. If they truly wish to have 5 more years left in the life of the game, they're going to have to address 3059, and the problems the MkII and mechs like it present to the overall game.

Not going to happen. I would please ask you stop this in this thread. It is not an IS mech IS mech means it is produced by an IS house. Clans did use the Mk.II MORE so then the Inner sphere as well. You are thinking to hard on this man.

[ScarecrowES]

CK16, on 18 March 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

Not going to happen. I would please ask you stop this in this thread. It is not an IS mech IS mech means it is produced by an IS house. Clans did use the Mk.II MORE so then the Inner sphere as well. You are thinking to hard on this man.

Actually, faction alignments are determined by what factions used a mech. TECH alignments are determined by the tech base of the mech (who produced it). Alignment is Inner Sphere by faction, Clan by tech, as shown clearly in the TRO. So sadly, you're wrong. Moreover, you keep posting the actual TRO page, which tells you very explicitly that the Clans didn't use it. So why must you continue insisting they did? I would please ask you to stop posting lies and misinformation caused by your lack of understanding of the source material.

If you're going to continue to advocate for a mech that PGI has said they're in no hurry to introduce, at least try to understand what the mech is and WHY it'd be such a challenge to introduce it in-game.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 18 March 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[MechB Kotare]

Mad cat MK II is a mere shadow of Timberwolf. Its no icon lol.

[CK16]

ScarecrowES, on 18 March 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

Actually, faction alignments are determined by what factions used a mech. TECH alignments are determined by the tech base of the mech (who produced it). Alignment is Inner Sphere by faction, Clan by tech, as shown clearly in the TRO. So sadly, you're wrong. Moreover, you keep posting the actual TRO page, which tells you very explicitly that the Clans didn't use it. So why must you continue insisting they did? I would please ask you to stop posting lies and misinformation caused by your lack of understanding of the source material.

If you're going to continue to advocate for a mech that PGI has said they're in no hurry to introduce, at least try to understand what the mech is and WHY it'd be such a challenge to introduce it in-game.

IF you think you are so right on this ask Russ...his answer I bet falls under Clan Nova Cat will be part of the clans.

I get what you are saying...but if we go with that should IS players be allowed to say that captured a Direwolf so they can use it? Or they were gifted one from the Clans? No this is silly.

It says in the TRO pages that Falcon AND Wolf still used them, they just didn't purchase them they won them through trials or trading. Not even having to salvage them.

How many threads have you gotten into and tried this to be shot down every time on this man? No one agree's with you on it, based on how we feel PGI would handle it. Its a simple done its a Clan battlemech. Run a poll with your examples people would still say its clan. I don't get why this is so hard for you to understand this concept. The Inner Sphere houses did not field tons of these things ONLY in what they say is almost just note worthy....Clan Diamond Shark and Clan Nova Cat both used them the most out of ALL factions. The 2nd place is probably the rest of the Clans and finally IS factions that were in good enough grace to purchase them. Diamond Shark did not sell them like candy to the Inner sphere houses or mercs...

The big reasons they don't want to implement is at this time as Russ said he feels they need to get more mechs from this time frame in first. Or his gut feeling is to...I agree it would be silly to just inject a new chassis in from 10 years out with out even a few stepping stones to 3060?

Edited by CK16, 18 March 2016 - 02:53 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

CK16, on 18 March 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

I get what you are saying...but if we go with that should IS players be allowed to say that captured a Direwolf so they can use it? Or they were gifted one from the Clans? No this is silly.

It says in the TRO pages that Falcon AND Wolf still used them, they just didn't purchase them they won them through trials or trading. Not even having to salvage them.

Actually, winning them through trials literally IS salvaging them. I win the trial, I take all your stuff.

So by your own reasoning, no, in MWO Jade Falcon, Wolf (reformed), and the other Clans couldn't use them any more than IS couldn't use captured Clan mechs. The rules in the game as it is are clear on that point. For the purposes of MWO, the only factions for which the MkII is a native fielded unit are all aligned with the Inner Sphere.

Now, personally, once we get to the 3059 timeline, I firmly believe that the tech situation will become too complicated to leave clean faction/tech lines, and PGI will probably have to open both tech bases to both factions, but we have no idea how this is going to work out.

And I'd LOVE to talk to Russ on the matter. It would be nice to know what PGI's plan is for Faction Warfare and later model mech and tech is. The future of the game depends on it. Alas, PGI doesn't pay attention to the forums, and I don't Tweet.