83 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

himself, on 16 February 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Good job, you wrote an essay on something that flew completely over your head and the best part, is that I will never bother to read it.

It was an analogy, bud. At no point did I say it could kill something in one shot, I was merely trying to put into perspective how silly ammo limitations are when you kick everyone's *** and get 500+ damage per game after you've exhausted your ammo.

Ummm your talking about a Dakka Wolf as well, or a Splat Cat, or a Splat Dog, or a Splat Crow, or a Streak Dog, or a Streak Crow, or Maybe a King Crab, or any LRM Boat?


I am confused, I thought this was about the Oxides?

[Jables McBarty]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 16 February 2016 - 12:11 AM, said:

This. All the way this.

I didn't mind MUCH that it ended up a little bit OP after the requirkening, it happenes. BUT tossing in arbitrary buff to already very good, paywalled mech is fishy at best. Especially when all other Jenners are still 2nd class lights at best. Oxide was already the toughest light (good hitboxes AFTER LAST HITBOX UPDATE) and durability quirks none other light mech have (it's the only jenny that have ANY durability quirks, mind you). Now it's gonna be also the most agile 35-tonner (yup, best accel/decel/turnrate quirks, look it up). OXIDE quirk list is already at least twice as long as any other jenner's, now those quirks are gonna be higher.

I already see more oxides in play than all other Jenners and Jenners IIC combined. More than any other heros too. ACH wolfpacks in group play from recently are oxide wolfpacks now.

I would take the person who made today's oxide buff happen and force it to play vindicators for a month. That would teach that one a thing or two about balance.

Regarding the structure buffs: Anybody who has piloted a fast light without JJ can attest--you lose a shitton of leg health just by falling off miniscule edges. The leg structure buffs help compensate for the fact that you'll be shaving HP every time you try to walk down a hill with a tweaked XL250+. As for the torso structure--the Oxide is the only JR7 with an effective range limit. Unless you're trolling with LRMs, you need to get within 270 meters. All other variants can slap on MLs and poke from outside 400, or a LL/ERLL and get further away. Not in the Oxide. The structure quirks help it to be a viable variant in comparison to its counterparts.

Regarding mobility: I admit to partiality. Maybe because I've many times switched from my -F or -D into my -O, forgot about the inferior handling, and promptly got caught out of position and insta-killed....but I'm looking forward to it having better mobility. Should it have the BEST mobility of any JR7? Probably not...

Regarding swarms of Oxides: Every time I run my IS Jenners, I notice I tend to be paired with one or two IICs. In Tier 3 at least, the IICs seem to be more popular.

Wattila, on 16 February 2016 - 04:03 AM, said:

While Oxide it close to where lights should be in terms of power level, it's silly that it is pretty much the only Jenner variant you see these days, I recall seeing exactly one JR7-F recently (or my eyesight is failing me and the JR7-D is super popular all of a sudden). There's no reason for the MC variant to be head and shoulders above the rest.

I have all four IS Jenners in my stable (correction--I sold the -K cause it's ****). I play the Oxide because it's the most fun, seconded by the -D. For me it's less the quirks/winrate--I just don't find lasers to be very exciting. Maybe other JR7 pilots feel the same.

Thunderbird Anthares, on 16 February 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:

its kind of frustrating to play an Assault and getting swarmed by 4 SRM Oxides/Jenners and 2 locusts and get cored out and murdered in 15 seconds... and there is literally nothing you can do about it

no light should be able to do that, and no light should be able to do that while at the same time one-shotting our lights that are desperately trying to cover me

Are you then of the school of thought that lights should only be scouts? Good luck getting balanced tonnage in games then. And if you're not...still your argument ignores the fact that a light that gets stuck or caught out of position or who blunders into the enemy team is toast, even with a whopping 12 extra structure points. Run an Oxide and turn the wrong way whilst in front of a Dakkawolf and see how long you last.

I play predominantly lights and assaults. Yes, it sucks if you get cored by lights. But you have three options besides nerfing lights: 1) Be situationally aware, put your back against a wall, and call for help (sometimes you'll get lucky and a 4xSSRM2 Oxide light-hunter will come help you D: ); 2) add more rear armor; 3) slap some streaks on your assault--for a few sacrificed tons you'll manage to chase most lights away.

Or relish the challenge of piloting an assault.

Or give up and join the swarm.

[Ovion]

You people keep saying X is pay to win...
I'm not sure you actually know what that is.

[Ovion]

Jables McBarty, on 16 February 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

I play predominantly lights and assaults. Yes, it sucks if you get cored by lights. But you have three options besides nerfing lights: 1) Be situationally aware, put your back against a wall, and call for help (sometimes you'll get lucky and a 4xSSRM2 Oxide light-hunter will come help you D: ); 2) add more rear armor; 3) slap some streaks on your assault--for a few sacrificed tons you'll manage to chase most lights away.

Or relish the challenge of piloting an assault.

Or give up and join the swarm.

The won't do that though, because piloting a Light Mech is hard.
It takes practice and effort.
That's why the light queue percentage often hits single digits.
It's why people assume things like the Oxide were good.

[Darian DelFord]

Ovion, on 16 February 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

The won't do that though, because piloting a Light Mech is hard.
It takes practice and effort.
That's why the light queue percentage often hits single digits.
It's why people assume things like the Oxide were good.

This to me is the biggest thing. Lights, in MWO, are hard mode. It is a mech that you have to practice with extensively to be any good in. And not just lights as a whole but each individual chassis. They all play different. Its not like hoping into a Timberwolf un basiced and being able to alpha for 50 points and break 500 points your first match.

People do not put the time and energy into learning a light and more importantly taking those steps to being a great light pilot. Great light pilots are so few and far between that when they see us (For me Jenners) they think our mech is OP because we can break 500+ points per match. What they do not see is the literal tens of thousands of drops we have in those mechs. Nor the risks we take as a light mech.

They just think that bigger should be better and a mech 65 tons less than them should be disintegrated when they look at us.

Once again the question that NO light haters can seem to answer

If light mechs are so OP why is the queue consistently less than 10%?

[InspectorG]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 15 February 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

Any structure quirks on that foil?

[InspectorG]

Tripzter, on 15 February 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

If its the best mech in teh class it's pay to win.

I know, when is PGI gonna release the FireStarter and Arctic Cheeter for Cbills???

Paywall confirmed.





















/

[JediPanther]

himself, on 15 February 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

So if they only get 5 ammo and each ammo can kill a mech in one shot, it isn't OP because they run out of ammo?

I would like to know this mech that dies in one shot to the oxide. Even with full 43 alpha it takes three hits to kill a dire from behind. Perhaps if you used std instead of xl you would live longer. Find me in game for a private match and I'll show you all the weaknesses of the oxide and I'll even be nice and use the is oxide and not the clan version.

As for the match I carry 500 srms divided by the 20 srms required for one alpha and that gives me only twenty five alphas in total with no other weapons totally dependent on hit reg that all those srm actually hit the intended target and/or component. Any other mech with a single laser can do far more damage over the length of the match than an oxide which has to choose and pick targets to maximize its combat effectiveness before it runs out of ammo.

Using pictures since text is beyond you let me point out three things. 1. My mech has sustained heavy damage. 2. I have almost no ammo left and over 12 minutes left in the match. 3. I only have 152 srm ammo in total left out of 500 which means it took multiple shots to kill the enemy mechs. By your reckoning I should have killed all three with one alpha per mech. The math of 20 srm per alpha means I should have 440 srm ammo left. 500 srm total-60 srm (20 per alpha on a single mech)=440 srm left.

Edited by JediPanther, 16 February 2016 - 07:17 PM.

[Ovion]

Darian DelFord, on 16 February 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

This to me is the biggest thing. Lights, in MWO, are hard mode. It is a mech that you have to practice with extensively to be any good in. And not just lights as a whole but each individual chassis. They all play different. Its not like hoping into a Timberwolf un basiced and being able to alpha for 50 points and break 500 points your first match.

People do not put the time and energy into learning a light and more importantly taking those steps to being a great light pilot. Great light pilots are so few and far between that when they see us (For me Jenners) they think our mech is OP because we can break 500+ points per match. What they do not see is the literal tens of thousands of drops we have in those mechs. Nor the risks we take as a light mech.

They just think that bigger should be better and a mech 65 tons less than them should be disintegrated when they look at us.

Once again the question that NO light haters can seem to answer

If light mechs are so OP why is the queue consistently less than 10%?

I can pull 500+ damage, 2+ kill games in my lights, I can even do it reasonably consistently these days.
I own every single light, fully half of all my matches are in lights, fully half my time playing is in the seat of something 35T or less.

The Oxide is one of the least effective hero mechs there.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Darian DelFord, on 16 February 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

Once again the question that NO light haters can seem to answer
If light mechs are so OP why is the queue consistently less than 10%?

The answer is simple. This is MWO, a Battletech Game. The light mechs represented in this game are more of a CoD playstyle, not representative of a slower paced thinking man shooter.
Meaning light mechs as represented in MWO break genre as badly as they break the capacities of the game engine. Essentially many light mechs (not all) are simply a concession by PGI to attract the Adderall audience.

[Ovion]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 16 February 2016 - 06:56 PM, said:

The answer is simple. This is MWO, a Battletech Game. The light mechs represented in this game are more of a CoD playstyle, not representative of a slower paced thinking man shooter.
Meaning light mechs as represented in MWO break genre as badly as they break the capacities of the game engine. Essentially many light mechs (not all) are simply a concession by PGI to attract the Adderall audience.

BS.
You can run fast, combat orientated light mech on TT, and it can be brutal.
I enjoy running light hovercraft with AC20's, Locusts, etc rushing 12+ hexes a turn, the speed making me completely untouchable.
It's different aspects of the game, doesn't make it less battletech.

Less than 10% of the queue are lights, because it's hard.
People like the idea of going fast, but not the reality that's it's difficult.

[Darian DelFord]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 16 February 2016 - 06:56 PM, said:

The answer is simple. This is MWO, a Battletech Game. The light mechs represented in this game are more of a CoD playstyle, not representative of a slower paced thinking man shooter.
Meaning light mechs as represented in MWO break genre as badly as they break the capacities of the game engine. Essentially many light mechs (not all) are simply a concession by PGI to attract the Adderall audience.

You will have to forge me here but if anything is CoD play style its Heavies and assaults which can one shot lesser mechs.

YOu have to make the game fun for all weight classes not just the heavies and assaults who think they know how to play.

[himself]

Darian DelFord, on 16 February 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

If light mechs are so OP why is the queue consistently less than 10%?

Because they're difficult to play?

[Ten Roos]

Well, I am going all OXide for a week since its sooo OP. My current K/D ratio with it is 1.3. Hmm My BJ-1DC is 2.25 and Dragon 5N 3.0. By my stats the Oxide needs a buff.

Spoken by a rank 4 newb... sorry, there is a point to this thread?

Edited by Ten Roos, 16 February 2016 - 09:39 PM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Meta shift to flamers, time for a boost in sales for lights. PGI is playing you guys hard. Luckily the whole "PGI is bad at balancing card" is being accepted quite easily, otherwise they would be broke.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Oh my f***ing goodness, I can't even...

Yo, pass the pumpkin spice, girl. Serious. GIRL.

Okay, so a couple pages back, someone is complaining (this has GOT to be a joke) that it's not alright that an assault mech gets jumped by SIX lights and is destroyed within 15-ish seconds. I DID read that correctly, right?

Dude, it could be six stock LCT-1Vs versus the assault-known-as-God-to-us-mortals, and that's gonna happen if the pilots in even TWO of those lights are worth spitting on.

Krom forbid there be a couple of Oxides in there, which ARE probably the best short-range lights in the game right now (especially against BIG targets).

So where's the joke here? What did I miss in the last three years, that we should all know this wasn't to be taken seriously? Y'all fill me in.

Cuz I. CAN'T. EVEN.

[stealthraccoon]

I'm still flabbergasted that people are considering the Oxide a good mech...

Damn thing needs to be point blank or you have to lead anything moving faster than a perky Urbanmech. It doesn't jump and only has 4 missile hardpoints (two of which are limited to fit in CT).

It's a suicide machine that occasionally turns in a good match when the pilot is both good and lucky.

[Xetelian]

Oxide has never been a real contender, with maximum XL engine (300) and 4 SRM4s you can only carry 3 tons of ammo which is not enough to last a full match for most people.

Drop that down to a XL275 and you can fit 450 missiles at ~130KPH

With the minor buffs to the missiles its not on the Huginn level with 30% cooldown and

HUGINN

OXIDE

Neither of these mechs are pay to win. You can easily make a comparable dps and alpha damage on a great deal of lights

JR7-D(S)

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Darian DelFord, on 16 February 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

You lost me when you said good hit boxes after last hit box fix. You also lost me when you said NO OTHER LIGHT MECHS GOT STRUCUTURE QUIRKS. Look again friend, the Jenner D F and K as well as the firestarters are the ONLY MECHS NOT TO GET STRUCTURE QUIRKS. Every other light mech got them but the Jenners and Firestarter. When you make complete and utter nonsense based off of mis use of information you just loose all credibility. ALL THE JENENRS GOT SCREWED AND NERFED on the last two hit box fixes. We are now walking side torso's. Get your facts straight it will NOT be the best Jenner in regards to accel and decel, it will be even with the Jenner D. You do not see more Oxides than IS and IIC Jenners combined.

Whoa.
1. Hitboxes - Mileage may vary between fix1 and fix2, but I don't believe you thing walkingCT The jenner was previously was better than now. Yeah, the ST goes puff first most of the time, but it's still ages longer than how the CT soaked all damage previously from all angles. You can twist all the time while moving with the oxide (easy when you get instant damage srm in opposition to stare-down lasers), and alter clockwise<>counterclockwise movement i dependence of which ST has more health left.
2. Structure - Whoa2
Yeah, I mixed that a lot. 1st - by lights I meant in fact "those lights that actually pose any threat", generally 30 and 35-tonners (sorry locust pilots). Forgot how many lights are there.

Also, maybe my English, but I did not said no other lights have durability quirks, just that oxides's ones are the best. Read again:
"and durability quirks none other light mech have (it's the only jenny that have ANY durability quirks, mind you)" - I even capslocked "ANY" in respect to the jenners, in opposition to other lights that have such quirks, only not that good.
But yeah, I checked the quirk list thoroughly and found myself wrong anyway. The huggin's +hp quirks are comparable (less on the legs, but more on STs), and 2 panthers (those 2 terribly undergunned panthers) have it on par (10K) and better (10P).

Still, my fault for forgetting how many light mechs are there nobody uses anyway.

3. I DID see more oxides than all other jennies combined. Especially in group play (the day I wrote that post I met one wolfpack of 3 oxides and another(?) of about 4 leading 1-2 other jennies and a bunch of other lights). Now IIC went for c-bills so maybe it won't be so any more, at least for a while

4. 35% accel/decel on Oxide vs 30% on D (with identical turn rate).

[Moomtazz]

Just give it a month or two while all this buzz generates a surge in Oxide sales. Then be outraged when a new Jenner variant is released for C-bills with the same 4 missle slots and maybe a jumpjet added in.

If you think thats absurd, they already did it with the Yen Lo Wang/Cent AH