140 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

MischiefSC, on 16 February 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

The Raven 4x is the bad boy there.

That thing is a stone cold killer of a sniper at 35 tons. With those range quirks and fast fire and short burn time it's the best light sniper in the game by a long stretch.

Better nerf it. It is at least a Tier 4 mech now.

[Kei Nogareru]

What?! They missed a couple mechs out of a couple hundred?! Those b******s.! Curse you PGI!

Jman5, on 16 February 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Another thing I have noticed is that several of the mechs have energy + specific laser range quirks giving it higher than 10%. I'm not sure if that was intentional or not, but here it is:

• Stalker 4N: 5% LL 10% Energy
  
• Stalker 5S: 5% LPL 10% energy
  
• Battlemaster 3S: 5% MPL 10% energy
  
• Battlemaster 1G: 10% ML, 10% energy
  
• Banshee 3S: 10% ML, 5% energy
  
• thunderbolt 9SE: 10% LPL, 10% energy
  
• Thunderbolt 5S: 10% LL, 10% energy
  
• Thunderbolt 5SS: 15% MPL, 10% energy
  
• Trebuchet 5J: 20% std laser range
  
• Loup de guerre: 10% MPL, 5% energy
  
• Golden Boy: 20% MPL, 10% energy
  
• Enforcer 4R: 10% LL, 10% energy

This is intentional. Russ said some mechs would retain weapon specific quirks to help maintain their flavor and viability with the weapons they are supposed to use.

[Dimento Graven]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 February 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

The rest of the population seems to disagree with you, so meh.

The rest of the population isn't drawn to it for the primary reason stated.

Quote

Bolded the hyperbole.

So you're at least acknowledging the technological edge, which indicates you agree, Clans are not balanced with IS, and again, that feeds into deterring people from bothering with CW.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 16 February 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

The rest of the population isn't drawn to it for the primary reason stated.

If that's what you need to tell yourself.

Dimento Graven, on 16 February 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

So you're at least acknowledging the technological edge

Yes and no, with quirks, if you thought the Clans had an edge prior to this patch you were just not paying attention. Even now the IS still has plenty of great mechs that are able to compete and be better than Clan mechs (Wubshee and Wubmaster are very much still alive). With base statistics however they do have an edge.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 February 2016 - 02:54 PM.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Dimento Graven, on 16 February 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

Don't give flying F bomb about the solo queue, let it stay as it is. The public queues were supposed to be the "stop gap" game while CW was being developed.

You're wrong here buddy, CW = free mechbays so you can have a more diverse mech selection in Quick Play.

I enjoy CW to a certain extent, but I bet a lot of people view CW as the only means to obtain mech bays and expand the collection.

[Dimento Graven]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 February 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

...

Yes and no, with quirks, if you thought the Clans had an edge prior to this patch you were just not paying attention. With base statistics however they do have an edge.

The fact was that a very few IS 'mechs had laser ranges greater than what the Clans could achieve. It required the total of the quirk to be 25% or above if I remember right before the IS had an actual insurmountable range advantage, and EVEN THEN, the IS still didn't get:

Survivable XL torso loss.
Lighter XL engines.
Smaller XL engines.
Smaller/lighter weapons
Other weapons with LONGER ranges.
Free CASE
Smaller DHS's
TC's with crit/speed/range quirks
etc.
etc.
etc.
etc.

No, I paid attention, I just do my best to pay attention to THE WHOLE picture, and try to understand how certain things have an affect on the whole system.

LegendaryArticuno, on 16 February 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

You're wrong here buddy, CW = free mechbays so you can have a more diverse mech selection in Quick Play.

I enjoy CW to a certain extent, but I bet a lot of people view CW as the only means to obtain mech bays and expand the collection.

You're wrong on the original intent of CW.

Now, the playerbase's view point and understanding of that intent may have warped over the years, but it doesn't change the original facts (or the fact that free 'mech bays diversifies your drop deck in CW too, y'know).

[Revis Volek]

Dimento Graven, on 16 February 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

The rest of the population isn't drawn to it for the primary reason stated.

So you're at least acknowledging the technological edge, which indicates you agree, Clans are not balanced with IS, and again, that feeds into deterring people from bothering with CW.

I dont think you know what hyperbole means....

[Dimento Graven]

Revis Volek, on 16 February 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

I dont think you know what hyperbole means....

I actually do, in his statement he indicated that the word 'overwhelming' was an exaggeration.

He did NOT indicate that in fact there was no Clan technological edge.

Syntax, context, and direct definitions of words, man. It's part of what I do on a daily basis.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 16 February 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

No, I paid attention, I just do my best to pay attention to THE WHOLE picture, and try to understand how certain things have an affect on the whole system.

Then you missed how much certain IS mechs were buffed on top of the Clan nerfs that hit during the rebalance.
Were IS a whole worse than Clans, it is possible, but the top performers of both side prior to this patch were weighted towards the IS.

[Dimento Graven]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 February 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Then you missed how much certain IS mechs were buffed on top of the Clan nerfs that hit during the rebalance.
Were IS a whole worse than Clans, it is possible, but the top performers of both side prior to this patch were weighted towards the IS.

Again, I understand it perfectly and while on a specific "this 'mech" verses "that 'mech" basis you end up with SOME IS 'mechs beating SOME Clan 'mechs, the overall "balance scale was STILL strongly in the Clan camp.

It's just that we have some closet "Lore-facists" on the Clans side and ANY time ANY IS 'mech gets ANY thing better than ANY OTHER Clan 'mech the tantrums start getting thrown...

[ShinobiHunter]

Cool the jets boys, Russ says they're working on it. They probably just overlooked those few mechs.

[Y E O N N E]

Didn't catch all the energy range quirks?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 16 February 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Again, I understand it perfectly and while on a specific "this 'mech" verses "that 'mech" basis you end up with SOME IS 'mechs beating ALL Clan equivalent 'mechs, the overall "balance scale was STILL slightly in the Clan camp.

FTFY, and if players are playing best against best, like should be the case if CW were actually competitive (which it's not), IS should've won. Now with this patch that might not be the case but we will see, plenty of strong mechs on the IS side still.

[Dimento Graven]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 February 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

FTFY, and if players are playing best against best, like should be the case if CW were actually competitive (which it's not), IS should've won. Now with this patch that might not be the case but we will see, plenty of strong mechs on the IS side still.

Now who's venturing into hyperbole...

Seriously the ONLY thing that these IS 'mechs had going for them was that ERLL's/LL's could out distance Clan ranges. They couldn't load an XL and survive a ST loss, which means they compromised speed or armor (probably a bit of both) to load up a standard. I can't think of any Clan 'mech that couldn't load up a LARGER alpha than these IS's, and the MOMENT the Clan got the IS 'mech in its own primary range, that ONE weapon system's range advantage was rendered moot.

And while the IS may still have a few 'strong contenders' there's very few that can even come close the Clan class equivalent ALPHA POWER+SPEED+SURVIVABILITY trifecta the Clans typically enjoy over the IS.

But whatever, back to this circular argument,

Clans: The IS should HAVE NO ABILITY that matches OR exceeds the Clans, THIS IS WHAT BALANCE IS.
IS: No that's not what BALANCE is.
Clans: You just suck at this game.
IS: No, you're playing easy mode.
etc.
etc.
etc.

I'm kind of getting bored of it all at this point...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 16 February 2016 - 03:22 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 16 February 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

Seriously the ONLY thing that these IS 'mechs had going for them was that ERLL's/LL's could out distance Clan ranges.

This is why I mention you don't see everything, if you think that was the only advantage, then you probably weren't playing IS mechs right.

[Dimento Graven]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 February 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

This is why I mention you don't see everything, if you think that was the only advantage, then you probably weren't playing IS mechs right.

Oh yes, IS could pew-pew their alphas a little quicker and a little cooler than Clans could, blah blah blah...

Clans typically sport larger alphas, blah blah blah...

Survivable XL st loss, blah blah blah...

Again, boring circular argument because you're not looking at what all the individual parts add up to, you're focused on the fact that the IS had ANYTHING that exceeded an ability of ANY Clan 'mech, so suddenly "IS COMPLETELY OP, PGI PLEZE NERF"...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 16 February 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

]Again, boring circular argument because you're not looking at what all the individual parts add up to, you're focused on the fact that the IS had ANYTHING that exceeded an ability of ANY Clan 'mech, so suddenly "IS COMPLETELY OP, PGI PLEZE NERF"...

First, I'm pretty sure you are projecting, because you just hand-waved a bunch of arguments like they mean nothing, when they do actually add up.

Second, where did I ever say IS completely OP? I'd much rather they balance the IS without relying on quirks so we didn't have issues like this again, but if that's what you think of anyone that feels certain quirks may have been too much, then whatever.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 February 2016 - 03:42 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

LegendaryArticuno, on 16 February 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

You're wrong here buddy, CW = free mechbays so you can have a more diverse mech selection in Quick Play.

I enjoy CW to a certain extent, but I bet a lot of people view CW as the only means to obtain mech bays and expand the collection.

Why? I earned enough free MC from giveaways last year to buy 10 mechbays. And I didn't max out grab bags in any event. If that is your reason you are doing it wrong.

[Hal Greaves]

i wanna see a Dimento vrs Johnny Z grudge match, personally

[FupDup]

Hal Greaves, on 16 February 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

i wanna see a Dimento vrs Johnny Z grudge match, personally

I'd rather have it be a 4-way including Gyrok and Hillslam (the latter of which is the Inner Sphere version of Gyrok).