271 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

It's not that Flamers aren't generating heat necessarily... but they don't grow enough heat to do anything substantial until way past that point the target is overheating. Of course, it depends on how many Flamers you use.

The argument besides the bug is "it generates too little heat early on - significantly disproportionate to the target getting it".

[Eider]

Love flamers atm.. LOVE EM. why? because they prove something we all knew all along. Most players DONT THINK. Apply directly to the forehead and watch them overheat themselves. Whats that? They could just chain fire small dps? Sure.. but most only have high alpha high heat weapons. GG.

[pwnface]

Eider, on 17 February 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

Love flamers atm.. LOVE EM. why? because they prove something we all knew all along. Most players DONT THINK. Apply directly to the forehead and watch them overheat themselves. Whats that? They could just chain fire small dps? Sure.. but most only have high alpha high heat weapons. GG.

What exactly do you think you will accomplish by chainfiring lasers at a light mech who is roasting you?

An ACH with 2x Flamers and 5xCSPL can keep you at 90% and out DPS you by a large margin if you are chainfiring single lasers at him.

[Eider]

So far my fav mech is my Illya 3 flamer/3 ac 5 build.. does that make me evil?

pwnface, on 17 February 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

What exactly do you think you will accomplish by chainfiring lasers at a light mech who is roasting you?

An ACH with 2x Flamers and 5xCSPL can keep you at 90% and out DPS you by a large margin if you are chainfiring single lasers at him.

Having been overheating people since this came out. Easy, you lose a LOT of dps with flamers, heck some matches i was doing about 90 damage total by end game.

Of course i felt it was a fair trade off to basicly stun lock laser vomit boats.

Edited by Eider, 17 February 2016 - 02:04 PM.

[Sereglach]

pwnface, on 17 February 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

What exactly do you think you will accomplish by chainfiring lasers at a light mech who is roasting you?

An ACH with 2x Flamers and 5xCSPL can keep you at 90% and out DPS you by a large margin if you are chainfiring single lasers at him.

. . . AND . . . if they're using the exploit they'll be able to fire lasers at you without imposing any heat from those Flamers. They'll keep you stunlocked for a long time while they hammer you with laser fire. When heat finally starts to kick in for the ACH, they'll be able to escape before you can cool off enough to do anything significant. Then they'll turn around and jump you again, once they've cooled off. Process repeats.

[TexAce]

Haven't seen a single flamer today. Totally overhyped.

Looks balanced to me.

[pwnface]

Eider, on 17 February 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

Having been overheating people since this came out. Easy, you lose a LOT of dps with flamers, heck some matches i was doing about 90 damage total by end game.

I think you are missing the part where flamers are heat neutral weapons when pulsed. You lose very little DPS if you are actually exploiting the bug described in the original post.

[Wildstreak]

Still waiting to see mixed Flamer/Ballistic builds.
A few Flamers and some AC5s/UAC5s that really produce barely to no heat.

Edited by Wildstreak, 17 February 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[Bilbo]

Wildstreak, on 17 February 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

Still waiting to see mixed Flamer/Ballistic builds.
A few Flamers and some AC5s/UAC5s that really produce barely to no heat.

Eider, on 17 February 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

So far my fav mech is my Illya 3 flamer/3 ac 5 build.. does that make me evil?


Having been overheating people since this came out. Easy, you lose a LOT of dps with flamers, heck some matches i was doing about 90 damage total by end game.

Of course i felt it was a fair trade off to basicly stun lock laser vomit boats.

[Shevy]

First the fluff would be the flamer consumes the excess heat from the reactor but has to shut off the heatsinks to generate the plasma that the flamer uses

How about we just make flamers consume ALL a mechs possible heat dissipation when firing a single flamer but generate zero heat itself
this would mean movement , JJ and other heat consuming items including weapon fire excluding the flamer induce heat to the mech starting at the start of flamer use not 4.75 seconds later

stacking flamers then would scale across the number of flamers fitted as there is only so much plasma the reactor can create so boating would be a pointless waste of tonnage

if further balancing is needed then add a small amount of H/s to the flamer or flamers

so skilled piloting and flamer use makes them useful but running around flaming everywhere effectively will cause engine heat to overheat the flaming carrying mech

FYI 2 flamers on the firestarter is quite a lot of fun and that is without macro or chainfire while carrying 2 mpl an 4 spl with correct flamer use and heat management is effective so id rather not see massive nerfs to its effectiveness with one or 2 flamers that have a range of 90- 110 with quirks

[Scout Derek]

pwnface, on 17 February 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Artemis currently speeds up lock time on Streaks since Streaks use the same target lock as LRMs. However, Artemis does not add tonnage or slots to Streaks the way that it does for LRMs.

Traditionally, Streaks aren't supposed to be affected by Artemis whatsoever.

This is a known BUG. Has been since I started playing this game in beta.

Um... then why hasn't anyone piped up about it?

Is the bug really that bad, or rather, working as intended even if not?

The way I see it, this argument you made about artemis being a bug isn't really strong, as I've barely seen any talk about it.
So is it really a bug then? or rather something beneficial to players while still being in it's boundaries?

[Eider]

Wildstreak, on 17 February 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

Still waiting to see mixed Flamer/Ballistic builds.
A few Flamers and some AC5s/UAC5s that really produce barely to no heat.

already done this, illya 3 ac5 and 3 flamers.

oh and to answer how you lose dps thats very easy. You are replacing energy points with a 90m weapon that does .1 a sec.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Wildstreak, on 17 February 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

Still waiting to see mixed Flamer/Ballistic builds.
A few Flamers and some AC5s/UAC5s that really produce barely to no heat.

Done already too. Lbx10, 2xsrm4, 2 flamers xl300 Cent D. New brawl overlord. 104km/h and anyone I got close to is out of fight automatically, can only run away or die*. Managed 950 damage today in it, and it has like 18 points of alpha.

EDIT:
*Unless has more flamers than me

If not fixed fast, flamers will totally redefine brawling in this game. Down to "more flamers win" brawling. From UP to OP in one patch.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 17 February 2016 - 03:50 PM.

[Bilbo]

Scout Derek, on 17 February 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Um... then why hasn't anyone piped up about it?

Is the bug really that bad, or rather, working as intended even if not?

The way I see it, this argument you made about artemis being a bug isn't really strong, as I've barely seen any talk about it.
So is it really a bug then? or rather something beneficial to players while still being in it's boundaries?

It's been a "feature" since Artemis was introduced. I assume because of shared code. Whether they will ever fix it or not is anyone's guess.

[Eider]

My 6 flamer 3 smpl hunchie looks nice. I warn people now in combat by painting orange/red on my flamer mechs lol.

[oldradagast]

Sereglach, on 17 February 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

. . . AND . . . if they're using the exploit they'll be able to fire lasers at you without imposing any heat from those Flamers. They'll keep you stunlocked for a long time while they hammer you with laser fire. When heat finally starts to kick in for the ACH, they'll be able to escape before you can cool off enough to do anything significant. Then they'll turn around and jump you again, once they've cooled off. Process repeats.

Working as intended. Maybe in a year or two, PGI will look at this, about when they fix PPC's, etc.

[Deathlike]

Scout Derek, on 17 February 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Um... then why hasn't anyone piped up about it?

Is the bug really that bad, or rather, working as intended even if not?

The way I see it, this argument you made about artemis being a bug isn't really strong, as I've barely seen any talk about it.
So is it really a bug then? or rather something beneficial to players while still being in it's boundaries?

There are no intents to fix it AFAIK, and for the most part... it's like the LBX code.... it became Lostech.

[wanderer]

What's hilarious is Paul's made this incredibly complex flamer system...

...and of course, the second flamers are meaningful it's obvious the system is broken. I mean, it was broken before, but now the flamelock is real and thus being broken is actually dangerous to other players.

I'd be tempted to email some PDF's of the TT rules with the relevant parts marked to show how easy it would have been to do this right, but that'd take away from Tetris time.

[Deathlike]

wanderer, on 17 February 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

What's hilarious is Paul's made this incredibly complex flamer system...

...and of course, the second flamers are meaningful it's obvious the system is broken. I mean, it was broken before, but now the flamelock is real and thus being broken is actually dangerous to other players.

I'd be tempted to email some PDF's of the TT rules with the relevant parts marked to show how easy it would have been to do this right, but that'd take away from Tetris time.

'L' shaped piece said:

Tetris shape is OP. Please nerf.

[Eider]

More laser vomit boats please, i laugh when they shutdown.