271 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

ZERO heat flamers is a BUG.

[Mystere]

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

ZERO heat flamers is a BUG.

From what I have been reading here, it's actually a feature long forgotten if not ignored.

[Eider]

Flamers are hard to discuss without laughing at the moment. No they arent stunlock, what they do however is make players have to change tactics. Something most are VERY bad at. Example, i was overheating a bk in mining the other night. Ignored me at first and killed a player. By the time he turned his attention to me he must have been close to the overheat limit. Threw a full alpha at me, at least 2 large 4 meds and promptly shutdown. Restarted did the same thing and blew up. At no point did they suddenlly change to a chain fire or throw lasers out one at a time. That is the typical player, laser vomit gallore. There have been players that flamers hardly effect. Ballistic users, or cool running mechs, i would also suggest a cool shot. But typically if you are fighting 90m you are doing it wrong.

[Mystere]

Eider, on 18 February 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Flamers are hard to discuss without laughing at the moment. No they arent stunlock, what they do however is make players have to change tactics. Something most are VERY bad at. Example, i was overheating a bk in mining the other night. Ignored me at first and killed a player. By the time he turned his attention to me he must have been close to the overheat limit. Threw a full alpha at me, at least 2 large 4 meds and promptly shutdown. Restarted did the same thing and blew up. At no point did they suddenlly change to a chain fire or throw lasers out one at a time. That is the typical player, laser vomit gallore. There have been players that flamers hardly effect. Ballistic users, or cool running mechs, i would also suggest a cool shot. But typically if you are fighting 90m you are doing it wrong.

From the looks of it, many players are not set up to quickly change from group to chain fire, much less when under pressure.

[Eider]

Mystere, on 18 February 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

From the looks of it, many players are not set up to quickly change from group to chain fire, much less when under pressure.

Oh i agree, tho its a habbit i had before the flamer change. Always have a chain fire alternative as i myself love alphas and have been in situations where i needed to not always be throwing them out there. That is the cross of the matter really. While i love flamers im fairly sure they will be changed to appeal to the more casuals. It comes down to what it always has.. dont ignore the lights.

[pwnface]

Mystere, on 18 February 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

From what I have been reading here, it's actually a feature long forgotten if not ignored.

Just cause a bug hasn't been relevant for the past 2-4 years doesn't mean it hasn't been a bug the entire time.
Increasing the amount of heat a flamer does makes this bug much more important to fix.

[Mystere]

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

Just cause a bug hasn't been relevant for the past 2-4 years doesn't mean it hasn't been a bug the entire time.
Increasing the amount of heat a flamer does makes this bug much more important to fix.

My point is that it actually being a "bug" is in dispute.

Edited by Mystere, 18 February 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[pwnface]

Chain firing lasers reduces your damage output drastically. Regardless of whether you overheat yourself or not, you aren't going to be able to fight back effectively against a light mech by chain firing lasers at them.

[pwnface]

Mystere, on 18 February 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

It being a "bug" is in dispute.

You can dispute it all you want. Doesn't change the fact that it is a bug.

Let me help you with what a bug is:
A software bug is an error, flaw, failure or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways. Most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design, or in frameworks and operating systems used by such programs, and a few are caused by compilers producing incorrect code.

If flamers were intended to be used as zero heat weapons they would have been designed to generate zero heat.
The fact that you can use flamers in a way to generate no heat circumvents the obvious design choice of flamers generating heat on the user.
It isn't INTENDED for flamers to be used as a zero heat weapon. The fact that you can do so is a BUG.

[wanderer]

As the Tweet shows, yeah zero-heat was indeed a bug.

It's just that since flamers were garbage, fixing it was so low on the list as to basically not be on it. Now that they have a game-changing effect...

[pwnface]

wanderer, on 18 February 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

As the Tweet shows, yeah zero-heat was indeed a bug.

It's just that since flamers were garbage, fixing it was so low on the list as to basically not be on it. Now that they have a game-changing effect...

I only had to shove it down Russ' throat to get him to admit it.

I mean I get trying to stand by your work product, but sometimes you just need to admit something is wrong/broken.

[wanderer]

I wouldn't be surprised if he had to get confirmation from Paul that yes, they didn't mean to do that.

[Mystere]

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

You can dispute it all you want. Doesn't change the fact that it is a bug.

Psst! I'm not the one disputing it is a bug:

Prosperity Park, on 16 February 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

I hope everyone understands there are 2 current Flamer problems. There's this bypass of the exponential system (which, if can be accomplished by a Macro means it is a "Feature" and not a bug), and also the problem with destroyed flamers causing instant shutdown of the firing Mech.

The exponential Flamer Heat has to go.

Roadkill, on 18 February 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

The only bug was the fact that destroyed flamers were still adding heat to flamer-equipped Mechs. I suspect that's what's been fixed, and ONLY that.

Having said that, posting a quote from Russ specifically confirming it is a bug would suffice, especially for benefit of those who avoid twitter like the plague.

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Let me help you with what a bug is:
A software bug is an error, flaw, failure or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways. Most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design, or in frameworks and operating systems used by such programs, and a few are caused by compilers producing incorrect code.

If flamers were intended to be used as zero heat weapons they would have been designed to generate zero heat.
The fact that you can use flamers in a way to generate no heat circumvents the obvious design choice of flamers generating heat on the user.
It isn't INTENDED for flamers to be used as a zero heat weapon. The fact that you can do so is a BUG.

Posting the definition of a bug to someone in charge of a multi-million dollar software system. Hilarious.

wanderer, on 18 February 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

As the Tweet shows, yeah zero-heat was indeed a bug.

It's just that since flamers were garbage, fixing it was so low on the list as to basically not be on it. Now that they have a game-changing effect...

Again, what tweet?

Edited by Mystere, 18 February 2016 - 03:07 PM.

[wanderer]

https://twitter.com/...bullock?lang=en

There's an entire chain on flamers, with the final result being:

Quote

Basically through macro or manual you will not be able to feather then indefinitely, web hot fix notes will have some more details.

Infinite flamer fire was a bug.

[Roadkill]

wanderer, on 18 February 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Infinite flamer fire was a bug.

The fact that it's being changed does not mean that it is/was a bug. It just means that they've decided to change it.

Using a word incorrectly and getting the result you want does not mean that you were using the word correctly. People use "exploit" wrong all the time, too, to basically mean anything that they don't like and want changed. Not a bug, not an exploit. Happy for you that it's being changed to your satisfaction.

I haven't had the chance to play since Tuesday, so I can't say whether or not this fix is necessary. Doesn't affect me, so I don't really care.

[SQW]

So while a flamer light is heating you up at 90m but actually doing minimal armor dmg, your nearby lance mates are punishing the said light for having the gall to come into touching range right? Right?

If a game punishes in-game death by locking you out for an hour, there'll be a lot more team work and far less solo rambos.

[Sereglach]

So, the hotfix takes the worst and most illogical route humanly possible out of this whole mess. I'm thoroughly disappointed in PGI. Like I said in the hot fix notes . . . I'm seriously starting to wonder if the Flamer code has become lostech like the LBX code. There's no other logical explanation for PGI doing this the way they're doing it.

Hell, it'd have made more sense to turn the Flamer into a beam duration based weapon with a 4.75 second cooldown then what we got out of it. What a joke.

They're not really fixed, but they have been dumped back into a shallow grave where it'll probably be another 3 years before something happens to them.

[PocketYoda]

Mystere, on 18 February 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

My point is that it actually being a "bug" is in dispute.

So if you took no heat at all when you chain fired lasers it wouldn't be a "bug" or "exploit"?

Because that is effectively what you're saying.

[Wildstreak]

SQW, on 18 February 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:

So while a flamer light is heating you up at 90m but actually doing minimal armor dmg, your nearby lance mates are punishing the said light for having the gall to come into touching range right? Right?

If a game punishes in-game death by locking you out for an hour, there'll be a lot more team work and far less solo rambos.

Known as chasing the squirrel since a good portion of Team 1 chases Team 2's Light with Flamers letting all Team 2's other Mechs romp all over Team 1.
Team 2's Light has done his job.

[Widowmaker1981]

Sereglach, on 18 February 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

They're not really fixed, but they have been dumped back into a shallow grave where it'll probably be another 3 years before something happens to them.

What? You can still mount 6 flamers on a Crow or Nova and spike someone to 90% in heat in ~1.5s, and do that 3 times without generating any significant heat on yourself, but now because they cannot permatroll someone they are useless again?