55 replies to this topic

[Fr0z7y]

i managed to take a small break for a while (8 months) and to my surprise when i came back, the graphics and maps have been greatly redone, well done pgi.

now when it comes to CW, i'm very glad it's still in "Beta" or at least hope so, due to the main issues with clans vs inner sphere. i recall PGI making statements that they want to stay as close to canon as possible with this game. considering that, let's look at the numbers of clanners vs inner sphere mech lances/stars.

clanners, being born from dirty vats they rarely clean, have a sense of arrogance due to their superior technology and spartan life styles, as such, they have groups called "star" of mechs which consists of 5 mechs or 4 mechs and a squad of power armor.

inner sphrere runs with 4 mechs to a lance rarely do you see 5 mechs per lance, but that does tend to happen from time to time in special occasions, as such, a 12 man team of 3 lances of 4 mechs is appropriate.

also note that batchalls happen before a world would be invaded, usually the most bold of commanders would "batchall" a lesser tonnage to gain the most honor, including ground troops, armor (tanks and tracked vehicles), and power armor in sizes ranging from full armies to as little as a handful of stars depending on the amount of resistance on the world they are up against.

due to this batchall process, they lost terra to the inner sphere, due to gorilla tactics, clan smoke jaguar was defeated against davion mixed forces.

further more, tonnage was always taken into consideration when facing inner sphere mechs, meaning 260 tons of inner sphere was equivalent to roughly that of 180ish tons of clanner technology, give or take 40 tons based on the actual equipment and pilot skill or other various ground pounders brought to bear in said fight.

currently, an equal 12v12 clan vs is with same drop weights of 260 tons each is tipping the scales directly in favor of clan technology, no matter what you say, this is true 100% of the time.

a rebalancing of the clan vs is matches is a necessity at this point, even with quirks. most clan mechs are also priced so that there are excessive differences between purchasing inner sphere chassis vs buying clan technology.

i am not arguing that there is a "pay2win" aspect to this game, you guys can deal with that if you wish, i myself could easily purchase the clan kits and "go to the dark side" if you will, but i do not own a single clan mech or piece of equipment, nor will i until there is sufficient storyline and canon to allow for an inner sphere pilot to acquire a salvaged clan mech or clan equipment to put onto his inner sphere chassis.

what i am arguing is that PGI made it abundantly clear they were attempting to make this game canon. as such, the points i have listed regarding the differences in clan tech vs the differences in inner sphere tech, the sizes in lances and stars, the batchalls against forces, and the differences between tonnages that clanners would put themselves into to make it a fair fight, are the reasons i have made this post.

i have also forgotten to mention zellbrigen, which here is the link to follow on sarna.net to see what it is, and why it is so important for it to be in this game if it is to be canon.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zellbrigen

if you look under "Interpretation", as well as "references", it will show you where all of this is found and which clans would be using it rigidly, and which clans would use it sparingly.

[Ihasa]

That was just their opinion at the time.

Besides it's the players that are dictating the terms and the canonicity of CW, not the other way around. Does Jade Falcon want to wipe out Steiner? Recruit like crazy for your faction and hire some merc units. Want to create new attack lanes for any specific faction? Switch to the appropriate faction and do so. Clan Civil War anybody (ie Phase 1)?

Lore and canon no longer have anything to do with it, and there's not much PGI can do to restore it either. Not that they'd want to, as gameplay comes way before Lore and Canon. And that's been their practice since about the Clans Wave 1 release, no matter what they say. It's nice to inject Lore here and there for immersion, backstory or reference while we the players create our own tales.

Edited by Ihasa, 16 February 2016 - 10:46 PM.

[Fr0z7y]

Ihasa, on 16 February 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

That was just their opinion at the time.

Besides it's the players that are dictating the terms and the canonicity of CW, not the other way around. Does Jade Falcon want to wipe out Steiner? Recruit like crazy for your faction and hire some merc units. Want to create new attack lanes for any specific faction? Switch to the appropriate faction and do so. Clan Civil War anybody (ie Phase 1)?

Lore and canon no longer have anything to do with it, and there's not much PGI can do to restore it either. Not that they'd want to, as gameplay comes way before Lore and Canon. And that's been their practice since about the Clans Wave 1 release, no matter what they say. It's nice to inject Lore here and there for immersion, backstory or reference while we the players create our own tales.

so then the gameplay is broken completely in favor of clan technology. point blank, using exactly what you said here, it would mean that all clan technology is better than inner sphere and that you have equal number of tonnage would mean a far superior weapons load out, mobility, armor, engines, etc etc etc.

by your very admission, it means it is now a pay to win and no longer mechwarrior, just some offshoot of a game that was very much so balanced.

by your own admission, your weapons are far superior to inner sphere, and i should quit talking about how broken this is because i can't afford clan technology (which is not the case) so im a loser and should go sit in the losers corner while you beat up the little inner sphere kids and take their candy and or lunch money.

by your own admission, pgi will not change the mechanics because they want to make money not fix the mechanics of the game for balancing, making clans have a superior unfair advantage for competitions.

by your own admission, pgi will never change this because they want to make money off of clan tech and make the "scrubs" use inner sphere technology.


pgi has several ways they can, and should, fix these mechanics.

- loss of cbills lp when firing on a mech that is already engaged with another clan mech based on your faction, this is a simple programming measure that they already have implemented when you fire on another mech and they die, giving you bonus cbills for attacking them, which many people use to gain money by dragging their lasers across as many mechs as they can to get extra cbills.

- restricted to using less tonnage for cw.

- restricted to 12 vs 10 for cw in regards to clanners vs inner sphere. 2 groups of 5 vs 3 groups of 4.

- rewarded for not breaking zellbriggen.

- rewarded for having lower tonnage than your max allowed tonnage per drop, such as for every 10 tons lower than the max allotted amount, gain extra lp upon winning.

- based on your current faction loyalties, zellbriggen would either apply to you or would not apply to you.

- based on the planet your faction is attacking or defending against which enemy, zellbriggen would apply based on your current faction loyalties.


these may not be SIMPLE lines of code, but in programming it is not much more than (if variable = true; then variable = true) type coding instances.

considering what you have said, if you are upset because you have paid a bunch of money to play a game that is very GAME BREAKING to allow you to just push around inner sphere, then this is not mech warrior at all, this is no longer mech warrior, it's basically by your standards, pay to beat up the little guy.

by PGI's own admission, and stance on this subject, this is going by canon as much as possible, and these things will be implemented hopefully before CW is polished and completed, such as the CW BETA 1 and 2 things you can have listed under your faction affiliation is currently in effect.

otherwise, by YOUR admission, this is no longer mechwarrior, just a game that is trying to be mechwarrior while making money at doing it, and we have all been duped into it.

[VorpalAnvil]

Is some spheroid planet missing their village idiot?

Edited by VorpalAnvil, 17 February 2016 - 03:07 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Most of that stuff applies to table top rules but wouldn't work in a videogame

[Jenovah]

sounds like after an 8 month break he's getting pug stomped by clans using teamwork and is mad. The whole "Clan OP" theory is old, and distasteful. Using teamwork, whether clan or IS, the only time we don't win is when we get matched against someone who has equal or better teamwork. When its equal it comes down to positioning, or more importantly- range. Can I as a clan mech close that range into my optimal engagement zone, or as IS can I keep clan at a range where its optimal for my IS mech and not the clan mech. Can I force a pilot to act undisciplined and overheat.

TL;DR- He doesn't even own clan mechs, so I give a 0/10 value to his thoughts on balance.

Edited by Jenovah, 17 February 2016 - 05:32 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

grasshopper,

You admit to being away for quite awhile but since you have been back if would appears you failed to even research your subject before presenting a question. Sad grasshopper. Then when you do receive a reply you attack the poster as if you were a low-rent lawyer.

All will admit that PGI forum search ability is below par, likely crafted by Steiner merchant who took the c-bills while giving the work to someone who would be fired shortly afterwards.

google to your heart's content but add to the end the follow syntax site:mwomercs.com

PGI did say something along the lines of that contained the word lore but that was more to base the settings, planetary ownership. And if PGI had stuck to lore on actual battle setup it would not have worked in a PC PVP environment. Right now the biggest factor, as previously noted, is random pug/normal queue mentality vs teamwork, combination of co-op pugs and/or units who are communication more effectively and have a battleplan. Said units also generally have a better synergy of mech setups vs a pug team using a wide variety of mechs, from trial mechs to just purchased and barely customized mechs, etc.

In January the Clans were restricted to only 1 or 2 worlds for awhile. Why? Most of the larger merc units were running IS contracts, most with FRR. Prior to that they were with CW and CJF and farther down south, Earth surrounded.

And most mechs originally purchased for cash eventually becomes available for c-bill purchase, with the exception of Hero mechs, which are comparable to their stock brethren, and some which are actually worse than the c-bill purchasable mechs.

As for being beta, it is moving to beta 3. It is, as it has been put, a minimum viable product, a work in progress.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 17 February 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[Sandpit]

Kin3ticX, on 17 February 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

Most of that stuff applies to table top rules but wouldn't work in a videogame

As a TT purist I have to agree, there are just rules that will not translate. TT rules were based on a turn based strategy game, not a first person shooter.

With that said though, there are ways to translate the rules in spirit if not by rule. There are a lot of things that PGI says "can't do" due to "technical limitations" that baffle me.

[Kin3ticX]

Sandpit, on 17 February 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

As a TT purist I have to agree, there are just rules that will not translate. TT rules were based on a turn based strategy game, not a first person shooter.

With that said though, there are ways to translate the rules in spirit if not by rule. There are a lot of things that PGI says "can't do" due to "technical limitations" that baffle me.

exactly

12v10 aint happening and the star/lance structure from lore isnt something everyone operates by, but its is represented in the game

Zellbriggen and BV was meant to handicap clan mechs against more basetech mechs. A stock stormcrow prime has twice the BV of a stock Shadowhawk.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 17 February 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

As a TT purist I have to agree, there are just rules that will not translate. TT rules were based on a turn based strategy game, not a first person shooter.

With that said though, there are ways to translate the rules in spirit if not by rule. There are a lot of things that PGI says "can't do" due to "technical limitations" that baffle me.

I agree. Plenty of things they said couldn't be done that were implemented

[Davegt27]

OP I just got another idea

"Batchall" game mode

The Mechanic for the 4 V 4 has been in the works for a while as a scouting mission

What about a "batchall" 4 V 4 for units or teams no pugs this would be before a planetary drop

Thoughts

[Fr0z7y]

double armor for one, certain limitations were implemented on clan weaponry for two, also other tech was scaled to allow for the point and click vs rng of rolling dice.

these things i understand. for reference, many of the clan mechs are available to use on trial, while i may not own the mechs themselves, watching in spectator mode, checking the weapons in loadout vs is weapons, knowing that a 95 ton mech running at roughly 70kph with an xl engine that can have an entire side torso destroyed is a bit op with no drawbacks other than losing the side torso and arm, having jump jets on a 100 ton mech moving at roughly 60kph with more weapons than an atlas could carry doing more damage per weapon (except acs) which also weigh less, etc etc etc.

not a grasshopper young padawan.

if you wish to say i am qq'ing because it's broken fine. attacking i am not. if you think im attacking, it must mean you are being defensive about your prized clanner possessions and do not want your "edge" to be given up to give any leeway to the inner sphere scum and wish to keep all that excess tech as valuable in the future as it is now so you can continue with your roflstomp in clan mechs.

i was on a cw team that knew what they were doing, and literally, the only way we ever beat clans was by usually defending, or pulling something seriously insane that barely worked against some clanners that weren't prepared for it. we had to focus fire legs, then shoot them in the back, the sheer number of tricks we pulled were never 100% effective, if 50% effective, and they did not work more than once if they worked at all.

when faced against pugs, that's a no brainer, that's a different issue altogether.

since you are all stating TT rules is what i am talking about, that's not tt rules for anything other than balancing and lore, which albeit, if you are going to have clans, you might as well either put those balancing rules in there, or just nerf them so bad they wouldn't even be considered clan mechs, thus decreasing the value of the mechs themselves in the first place.

what i see is qqing about the fact that if these rules, even some of them, were implemented, you would be upset that you would have to follow them and not play dirty with superior tech, which in fact was never meant for it to be used the way you are currently allowed to use it.

while you say i am outright attacking, its merely you being defensive about it, rather than looking at me attacking anyone about anything, i am merely stating facts about a game that i have been long familiar with, including the fact it is broken as it is without very KEY balancing issues not being implemented.

so you have three options, break the clan mechs to make it balanced, or leave the game broken as it is based on the current balancing issues that i have stated like all of you are wanting, or you fix the balancing issues based on how specific balancing features were supposed to be implemented namely those of tonnage for clan vs is mechs due to the superior nature of the clan technology over that of the is mechs.

i think you all have made it clear you wish to leave the gave mechanics broken and not implement any balancing measures that the game had designed via what you consider "TT" rules so you can continue to beat up on the little is mechs.

[Sandpit]

Kin3ticX, on 17 February 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

exactly

12v10 aint happening and the star/lance structure from lore isnt something everyone operates by, but its is represented in the game

Zellbriggen and BV was meant to handicap clan mechs against more basetech mechs. A stock stormcrow prime has twice the BV of a stock Shadowhawk.

I took part in the 12v10 test, it was horrible. It just did not work.

I think quirks would ahve been a good place to start in order to come up with some abilities to represent more of the TT rules. Adding negative quirks instead of using them exclusively for buffs would have done more than just create the new overall "balancing" mechanic for weapons in general instead of a chassis separation mechanic helping give each chassis a more unique flavor.

The "balance" of mechs right now (totality in balance) is centered around 3 things and 3 things only.
hardpoint allocation
scaling of hitboxes
quirks

All weapons seemed to be balanced according to quirks on individual mechs as opposed to weapon performance itself. "Balance" is now how a weapon performs on a specific chassis as opposed to how it performs when represented against other weapon systems and that's a systematic flaw in the balance concept of MWO.

Until a those things are addressed you'll never get any more variety or performance differences than you have now with "balance" equating to "Which quirk do we adjust this month?"

[MechWarrior4023212]

They would have to massively increase Clan mechs to has a 12 v 10, and on doing that it would break quick matches.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

not a grasshopper young padawan

Wrong universe, grasshopper, and I am likely older unless you are heading into your 60's . And it is in the tone, the phrasing you have used. As for being defensive, iie. Do I have clan mechs, hai but I primarily own and pilot IS mechs. And CW does not allow for mixed tech.

By default Clan weapons have the range/damage over IS but run hotter and have longer burn times. PGI makes up for this with mech quirks, quirks that are constantly changing. Quirks modify the range, duration (burn time), cooldown, velocity, structural, etc. PGI had and is adding positive quirks to under-used Clan mechs and removing negative quirks. Recently PGI has also cut Clan ERML/smaller lasers max range while keeping optimal damage range.

There are areas where PGI could, imho, improve the feel of the game by providing it a fuller foundation. A better handled Heat Scale that actually does sometime. Currently the only negative HScale effect happens at only 100%+, either shutdown w/possible CT damage or override and have random damage (looks cockpits). But nothing happens between 0-99%, all of that myomer bundles operating at 100% effectiveness, regardless of heatscale.

An example is a light running multiple smaller lasers alpha'g several times before skedaddling away. With a better setup heat scale, those alphas would be fewer and far between, or chain firing the weapons due to the risk of be slowed down enough that it can not escape. The other side is a mech playing peek and shoot. With a better setup heatscale, if it fired the same alpha today it did before the change, the reverse will be a lot slower, leaving the mech exposed for a longer period of time.

There are other areas but without a better foundation, everything else has to be band-aid. The one thing PGI can not really code in is human behavior. They can not force people to play as a group, even as they drop as a group. Nor would it appear that they are actively communication with the larger, roving merc units, units that tend to pick the same major faction (Clan vs IS), and generally the same minor faction, thus making a big dent in how the IS map looks, whether they are on the Clan or IS side.

There are no minor/major faction lobbies/centers/etc. There is a chat screen but no showing of personnel. There is a LFG screen but nothing is displayed until you put yourself into it. And PGI has not made the CW the primary focus of the game. And any serious work on the CW appears to be done semi-annually. PGI is a small company but CW does not directly bring in the funds. That rests on new mechs, trinkets, colors, premium time and such.

As for Clans and IS equipment, PGI has been moving to where each has their own flavor, where the techs are similar but not the same, tweaking things w/quirks. This appears to be the easiest road for PGI to take atm. /shrugs

[Ihasa]

Fr0z7y, on 17 February 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

so then the gameplay is broken completely in favor of clan technology. point blank, using exactly what you said here, it would mean that all clan technology is better than inner sphere and that you have equal number of tonnage would mean a far superior weapons load out, mobility, armor, engines, etc etc etc.

by your very admission, it means it is now a pay to win and no longer mechwarrior, just some offshoot of a game that was very much so balanced.

by your own admission, your weapons are far superior to inner sphere, and i should quit talking about how broken this is because i can't afford clan technology (which is not the case) so im a loser and should go sit in the losers corner while you beat up the little inner sphere kids and take their candy and or lunch money.

by your own admission, pgi will not change the mechanics because they want to make money not fix the mechanics of the game for balancing, making clans have a superior unfair advantage for competitions.

by your own admission, pgi will never change this because they want to make money off of clan tech and make the "scrubs" use inner sphere technology.


pgi has several ways they can, and should, fix these mechanics.

- loss of cbills lp when firing on a mech that is already engaged with another clan mech based on your faction, this is a simple programming measure that they already have implemented when you fire on another mech and they die, giving you bonus cbills for attacking them, which many people use to gain money by dragging their lasers across as many mechs as they can to get extra cbills.

- restricted to using less tonnage for cw.

- restricted to 12 vs 10 for cw in regards to clanners vs inner sphere. 2 groups of 5 vs 3 groups of 4.

- rewarded for not breaking zellbriggen.

- rewarded for having lower tonnage than your max allowed tonnage per drop, such as for every 10 tons lower than the max allotted amount, gain extra lp upon winning.

- based on your current faction loyalties, zellbriggen would either apply to you or would not apply to you.

- based on the planet your faction is attacking or defending against which enemy, zellbriggen would apply based on your current faction loyalties.


these may not be SIMPLE lines of code, but in programming it is not much more than (if variable = true; then variable = true) type coding instances.

considering what you have said, if you are upset because you have paid a bunch of money to play a game that is very GAME BREAKING to allow you to just push around inner sphere, then this is not mech warrior at all, this is no longer mech warrior, it's basically by your standards, pay to beat up the little guy.

by PGI's own admission, and stance on this subject, this is going by canon as much as possible, and these things will be implemented hopefully before CW is polished and completed, such as the CW BETA 1 and 2 things you can have listed under your faction affiliation is currently in effect.

otherwise, by YOUR admission, this is no longer mechwarrior, just a game that is trying to be mechwarrior while making money at doing it, and we have all been duped into it.

Holy jumping to far fetched conclusions and misreading between the lines batman!

First, let not the Plushy Cat avatar to the left fool you to believe I, and the unit I'm in, are clan loyalist. Not at all, we're mercs that go where it's most advantageous for our unit to go, or where we're paid to go, or where we vote to go. And I wouldn't have it any other way either. I'm not some Lore, TT or former MW game title purist. In fact I never heard of Battletech or MechWarrior before this game. I came to it with none of that baggage and learned to play the game for the sake of enjoying to play the game from what it offers without restriction, without limitation, without preconceptions. And that's my enjoyment, that's my admission.

And nowhere do I admit at all to any of your skewed interpretations of what I exactly said. There is no inference, no subliminal messages or any other indication those "admissions" are what I believe, or in fact even wrote. Since your interpretations are so incorrect, so too are your statements. No I don't think it's pay to win, and would easily/readily debate so. Were clan mechs overpowered at release? Yes, I have no problem agreeing with that. PGI, with their lack of foresight, experience with their own game, glacial balance adjustment schedule, and pendulum sledge hammer balance attempts, probably didn't know, and have been struggling to play catch up ever since.

And the same with all your other statements. I don't admit any of that, I don't believe any of that, and with whatever changes PGI bring, will just adapt until I find those changes unfun, or beyond my adaptation ability.

So is this still really a mechwarrior game or some offshoot? Don't know. Don't care. It's a game where I'm looking forward to being part of something bigger than myself, being part of writing the game's own story, and being part of those that are going to shape that story.

So please take your ill conceived notions and get over yourself.

[Tywren]

Fr0z7y, on 17 February 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

these things i understand. for reference, many of the clan mechs are available to use on trial, while i may not own the mechs themselves, watching in spectator mode, checking the weapons in loadout vs is weapons, knowing that a 95 ton mech running at roughly 70kph with an xl engine that can have an entire side torso destroyed is a bit op with no drawbacks other than losing the side torso and arm,

There are drawbacks to loosing the side torso. Once a side is lost, the clan mech looses a significant amount of speed, as well as, having the torso twist/arm targeting become less responsive, which makes it harder to aim especially in CQC with high maneuverability opponents

Quote

having jump jets on a 100 ton mech moving at roughly 60kph with more weapons than an atlas could carry doing more damage per weapon (except acs) which also weigh less, etc etc etc.

Ok now lets talk about weapons; clan LRM in any number less than 15 are completely useless against a mech with AMS due to the long stream of missiles, as opposed to the tight cluster on IS LRMs; Clan lasers have longer burn times, forcing you to expose your mech to return fire for longer periods of time; Clan ACs fire a burst of munitions instead of the single high damage slug of their IS counterpart; Clan PPCs suffer from extremely high heat, that when coupled with the recent clan double heatsink nerf make them all but unusable.

The only weapons the Clans have that out preform their IS cousins are SRMs, LB-X, and Gauss.

Quote

if you wish to say i am qq'ing because it's broken fine. attacking i am not. if you think im attacking, it must mean you are being defensive about your prized clanner possessions and do not want your "edge" to be given up to give any leeway to the inner sphere scum and wish to keep all that excess tech as valuable in the future as it is now so you can continue with your roflstomp in clan mechs.

Just look at the map, and compare it to it's starting configuration; most clans are barely hanging on. Your perception doesn't align with the reality of the situation.

[Fr0z7y]

so then what you are saying is you don't know the mw universe, that's fine, thank you for clarifying.

for those that state what they do about the usage of clan weapons and such, that means they are broken.

so this is no longer mechwarrior or battletech, but a different game altogether.

quickplay vs cw is by far different, i am very aware of this.

what all of you are stating about weapons and mechanics of gameplay, that's in TT rules, although the nerfs they have given clan mechs is not in TT rules or the MW universe at all, what you are stating about a quickplay breakage in terms of having a clan mech among is mechs a bit of a stretch considering that both teams have clan mechs.

clan lrms fly faster than is lrms, is lrm 5's are shot down as fast as clan lrm 5's although clan lrms have the edge on is lrms.

clan double heatsinks work almost like they do in TT rules, they are only slightly more effective than is double heatsinks with the heat cap being 1.1 vs 1.5 and the dissipation being .15 vs .14 clan/is respectively but only taking up 2 to the is 3 slots
clan vs is on double heatsinks has always been like that, not much of an edge except in space

10 dam 15 heat 4 cooldown range of 810-1620 is erppc and the same stats apply to clan er ppcs with the exception of being 1 ton lighter, and using 1 less slot.

as for the ballistic weapons, you have more options and all of them are lighter weight and some take up less slots if not all of them. for what you call a stream of shells, that equates to rocking the cockpit enough that the other pilot can not make decent shots at all, seriously, if i could rock cockpits like that in an is mech while using only one ballistic weapon i would.

clan er lasers are far superior to is lasers, even with the small drawback and longer firing rates, which i notice is between minimal of a fraction of a second to half a second.

for lasers in general, they are 1 point of heat over their is counter parts while having better range and damage of almost equal to the next laser up in is standards while having a very short increase in (burn time) meaning you either are exposed longer for that extra damage or you poke at the same damage but a superior range.

the clan er-large pulse laser for example, fires for 13 damage, 10 heat, 1200 max 600 optimal range for a burn time of 1.12.


let's focus on the next thing i think some of you are missing the point on, this game is centered around mechwarrior, which focuses not on your "meta mechs" but on diversity of weapon systems that work well together. very few mechs in the mechwarrior universe were all one weapon system, the nova for example is a run hot medium laser mech which it's drawbacks came from over heating and shut downs on alpha fire, so the pilots would use group fire for sets of lasers and chain fire on another group that had all of the lasers in it to allow for dissipation of the heat while giving it a very high damage output.
if you notice something has ballistic, missile, and energy hardpoints, usually you would use all of the hardpoints to properly balance damage output and manage heat better, which was the whole point behind mechwarrior to begin with.

every pilot in mechwarrior had different weapon systems on their mech to allow for a better range of damage depending on the distance they were to the other mechs, and some had almost dedicated boats depending on the situations their mechs were in and the role of those mechs in tandem with the other mechs in their lance/company.

so when you say that a clan erppc is not viable, it's the same heat/damage output as an is erppc, you are not supposed to boat erppcs, the awesome that uses 3 erppcs has a standard engine and filled to the brim with double heatsinks and still has serious heat issues.

you are not supposed to "boat" weapon systems, although the hardpoints allow for that, this is why you run into problems.

an experienced mechwarrior can use multiple weapon systems and manage heat very well, while using such module slots as a cool shot to mitigate heat in an up close and personal situation to gain a small edge.

so what are you saying to me, you would rather have boats or would you rather play balanced? because as it stands, clan mechs are still far superior to is mechs in every way. maybe you are using a cleaver for something you should be using a filet knife for then?

[Rushin Roulette]

Sandpit, on 17 February 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

I took part in the 12v10 test, it was horrible. It just did not work.

Actually, 10v12 is was surprisingly well balanced. We did quite a few tests and league setting tests with 10v12 or 5v6 and the games were very close. This was however before the first quirks were even implemented.

With the positive and negative quirks as they are? No chance. The Clan mechs are at a disadvantage. I guess 11 Cl v 12 IS would be viable at the current status quo since the 16.02.2016 patch (12v12 or 11 IS v 12 CL before that) ... but changing the team sizes each time anything in the game is changed makes it unnecessarily difficult for PGI (and we dont need even more complicated things for them to try and manage if they cant really manage the current balance in an intelligent way).

What needs to be done is for one person or well structured and coordinated group in PGI to think about what needs to be done to balance the game while thinking about multiple aspects and to actively TEST and try to break their own ideas before even thinking about announcing any changes (let alone even think about putting them on the live server)

[KinLuu]

Fr0z7y, on 17 February 2016 - 11:06 PM, said:

so this is no longer mechwarrior or battletech, but a different game altogether.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Now you got the point. This is not a Battletech simulator, this is a PvP arena shooter loosely based on the Battletech franchise. Always was, always will be. And thus, it has to be balanced like a PvP arena shooter and not like a tabletop game.