97 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

10 double heatsink + endo + FF armor will give the mass if you keep everything else the same.

[Arikiel]

OJ191, on 13 July 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Nice! We have ourselves a winner! Going over the numbers this build is the way to go. It's what I would pilot for a missile boat.

[Ogryn]

http://www.sarna.net.../Artemis_IV_FCS

Not wanting to be a party pooper, but one thing to be aware of is that Artemis requires that if one launcher has it, ALL launchers of the same type must have it.

Don't know what interpretation it's going to have in MWO, but worth pointing out. Also, CASE protects a single torso location, and only that torso. Blown CASE also still blows out the torso, and you'll lose the attached arm.

My personal build? Endo steel, Med Pulse, Artemis IV, LRM15 and a buttload of ammo. Drop extra HS for upgrade to double.

[bpphantom]

SkyDragon, on 13 July 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

Interesting... does this have to do with Rate of Fire and lock on speed timing?

Edit: I just noticed you wrote the 20's without, in MW4 it was possible to have dual 20's with Artemis... For that game it seemed like a good choice for lance mates.

True. I'm going from the TT game were luck made kings but math made it possible when doing custom pods or builds.

[OJ191]

Ogryn, on 13 July 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net.../Artemis_IV_FCS

Not wanting to be a party pooper, but one thing to be aware of is that Artemis requires that if one launcher has it, ALL launchers of the same type must have it.

Don't know what interpretation it's going to have in MWO, but worth pointing out. Also, CASE protects a single torso location, and only that torso. Blown CASE also still blows out the torso, and you'll lose the attached arm.

My personal build? Endo steel, Med Pulse, Artemis IV, LRM15 and a buttload of ammo. Drop extra HS for upgrade to double.

I don't know how artemis works

If you need 4 artemis for 4 launchers, then drop the engine down 1 level and you have the room for it.

[Arikiel]

Ogryn, on 13 July 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Not wanting to be a party pooper, but one thing to be aware of is that Artemis requires that if one launcher has it, ALL launchers of the same type must have it.

Opps! You're right. That's what I get for going off decades old memory rather then looking things up. For some reason I was thinking you needed one FCS per hit location.

[Millygoat]

If i recall from my tabletop days, you could drop the speed down to 3/5/3 and up the lrms, and of course do more if you went the XL or double heat sinks route to save some weight. The big question as others have mentioned is what you want to do about your secondaries. 4 Mediums is a pretty good amount of firepower, but 4 tons is 4 tons if you want to get more missiles to extend your fire support role.

I've actually always been more a fan of dropping the lrm's to 10 racks and upping the lasers to larges to add more of a medium/long range killing potential to the mech.

[OJ191]

Ogryn, on 13 July 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net.../Artemis_IV_FCS

Not wanting to be a party pooper, but one thing to be aware of is that Artemis requires that if one launcher has it, ALL launchers of the same type must have it.

Don't know what interpretation it's going to have in MWO, but worth pointing out. Also, CASE protects a single torso location, and only that torso. Blown CASE also still blows out the torso, and you'll lose the attached arm.

My personal build? Endo steel, Med Pulse, Artemis IV, LRM15 and a buttload of ammo. Drop extra HS for upgrade to double.

How's this then? You get some more armour than the previous build but one engine size down. And 4 Artemis systems one for each launcher.

Edited by OJ191, 13 July 2012 - 09:13 AM.

[Arikiel]

The reduced speed is probably a bad idea. If you're running a missile boat you want to be able to avoid combat and get into position quickly. I'd say you need at least a speed of 4/6 or you'll get caught out and overrun too easily. That's the thing about Battletech though. It's all give and take and finding the balance. You can't ever have it all.

[MajorLeeHung]

After reading many posts to this topic I just wanna point out if the OP is talking about a Cata for MWO there are no XL Engines or Pulse anything... YET.

Besides bigger is not always better. Having 2 LRM-20's is purely an epeen thing. "HEY GUIES! LOOK AT MY E-PENAIS"

Of all the mechs so far I plan to main the cata and the very last thing I will ever do is load 2 LRM-20's. It has a history of good fire power and a great electronics package with moderate maneuverability and being reasonably tough. I would say try it out before you go "glass cannoning" a pretty damn nice mech.

Again thats if the OP is refering to build a Cata for MWO

Edited by MajorLeeHung, 13 July 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[OJ191]

Arikiel, on 13 July 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

The reduced speed is probably a bad idea. If you're running a missile boat you want to be able to avoid combat and get into position quickly. I'd say you need at least a speed of 4/6 or you'll get caught out and overrun too easily. That's the thing about Battletech though. It's all give and take and finding the balance. You can't ever have it all.

You need the crit spaces from dropping the engine.

Plus even if you COULD manage just by dropping off armour, you would have really really low armour values (as in, a medium or maybe even a light could probably just about alpha strike you to death frontally or remove one of your arms in said alpha strike halving your fire support capability).

MajorLeeHung, on 13 July 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

After reading many posts to this topic I just wanna point out if the OP is talking about a Cata for MWO there are no XL Engines or Pulse anything... YET.

Besides bigger is not always better. Having 2 LRM-20's is purely an epeen thing. "HEY GUIES! LOOK AT MY E-PENAIS"

Of all the mechs so far I plan to main the cata and the very last thing I will ever do is load 2 LRM-20's. It has a history of good fire and a great electronics package with moderate maneuverability and being reasonably tough. I would say try it out before you go "glass cannoning" a pretty damn nice mech.

Again thats if the OP is refering to build a Cata for MWO

Yes there are XL engines and pulse lasers in timeline, and they have been confirmed by the devs for MWO.

Edited by OJ191, 13 July 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[Ogryn]

Right, spent 5 minutes in MekLab

4/6/4, standard engine. Because of scouts, and to be honest, I don't like XLs.
FF armor, endo steel chassis, 197/211 armor.
11 double heatsinks, 26 heat max/22 dispersed.
2x LRM 15+ Artemis, 4 tons ammo total.
3x Med Pulse lasers.

My preference on the build. Enough armor and mobility to get into position or get to a different one, and survive a scout or counterbattery fire. Enough ammo to sand the everloving SNOT out of targets. Triple Med Pulse gives enough snark to finish off cripples that close, or fight off a scout. I stuck with the stock 2 launchers version simply because I don't know if we can fit more launchers in there or not.

There is exactly ONE free crit slot in this build, and the cost comes out to around 6.5 million Cbills. BV2 of 1572.

Changes: Drop the FF armor, drop armor by one ton, add CASE. There simply isn't enough space in the chassis to fit 2x CASE. Putting all the ammo in one torso location, dropping .5 tons of armor and CASE works as well. All depends on your desire to risk.

Quick edit: Stock Catapult C1 costs 5.7 million cbills for 1399 BV.

Edited by Ogryn, 13 July 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[CancR]

2 words. Gauss Riffles.

[Mu]

CancR, on 13 July 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

2 words. Gauss Riffles.

That's assuming we get a Catapult with ballistic hardpoints. There's always the Cataphract though.

[Glythe]

Here's my 2x LRM/20 Setup:

Engine 4/6 (260) XL
Armor 13.5 tons Endo Steel

2X LRM/20 (with Artemis IV)
3x Medium Pulse Laser
4 Tons Ammunition
2x Case for said ammunition
12 DHS

Max Heat:26
Heat Dissipation: 24

No room for jump jets!

BV: 1517
Cost: 12,017,060 CB

Mu, on 13 July 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

That's assuming we get a Catapult with ballistic hardpoints. There's always the Cataphract though.

http://www.mechspecs...PLT-K2-Catapult

K2 has at least 4 energy mounts and 2 ballistic mounts. Now then the ballistic mounts might be in an area that already has a few other things so it can't mount a Gauss rifle.... but we don't know that yet.

Edited by Glythe, 13 July 2012 - 09:37 AM.

[OJ191]

Ogryn, on 13 July 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Right, spent 5 minutes in MekLab

4/6/4, standard engine. Because of scouts, and to be honest, I don't like XLs.
FF armor, endo steel chassis, 197/211 armor.
11 double heatsinks, 26 heat max/22 dispersed.
2x LRM 15+ Artemis, 4 tons ammo total.
3x Med Pulse lasers.

My preference on the build. Enough armor and mobility to get into position or get to a different one, and survive a scout or counterbattery fire. Enough ammo to sand the everloving SNOT out of targets. Triple Med Pulse gives enough snark to finish off cripples that close, or fight off a scout. I stuck with the stock 2 launchers version simply because I don't know if we can fit more launchers in there or not.

There is exactly ONE free crit slot in this build, and the cost comes out to around 6.5 million Cbills. BV2 of 1572.

Changes: Drop the FF armor, drop armor by one ton, add CASE. There simply isn't enough space in the chassis to fit 2x CASE. Putting all the ammo in one torso location, dropping .5 tons of armor and CASE works as well. All depends on your desire to risk.

Quick edit: Stock Catapult C1 costs 5.7 million cbills for 1399 BV.

Here you go.

[Ogryn]

Gah! Wow. Ran some more numbers... I'm wondering what kind of numbers we're going to see for repair bills.

Devs have confirmed that assaults will cost more to repair than scouts. Nothing DIRECTLY stating that Cbill cost of the mech will affect cost to repair after a match, and another interpertation of that line could be that weight classes affect repair cost. All those XL engine builds are EXPENSIVE, and if they go the route of % of mech Cbill cost as the repair cost.... ow. That will get expensive quick, and take a chunk out of your cash generation.

It doesn't invalidate a build, just pointing out that the cost of the bloody unit might turn around and bite us in the longer term metagame.

One other thing I noticed, stock C1 variant runs at 1399 BV, but the latest variant only hits 1517, and costs almost twice as much.

[OJ191]

Glythe, on 13 July 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

Here's my 2x LRM/20 Setup:

Engine 4/6 (260) XL
Armor 13.5 tons Endo Steel

2X LRM/20 (with Artemis IV)
3x Medium Pulse Laser
4 Tons Ammunition
2x Case for said ammunition
12 DHS

Max Heat:26
Heat Dissipation: 24

No room for jump jets!

BV: 1517
Cost: 12,017,060 CB




http://www.mechspecs...PLT-K2-Catapult

K2 has at least 4 energy mounts and 2 ballistic mounts. Now then the ballistic mounts might be in an area that already has a few other things so it can't mount a Gauss rifle.... but we don't know that yet.

I see 6 tons and 8 crits left over? To make no room for jump jets I have to up it to 8 tons of ammo with 13 heatsink and even then I can fit a 1mp jump jet (I believe that means it jumps 1 hex or 30 metres, albeit that would be crappy). With only 12 heatsinks I can fit on 2 jumpjets for 60m jump capacity.

Edited by OJ191, 13 July 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Donovan Jenks]

bpphantom, on 13 July 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

True and the newer models do that, there's at least one Catapult with dual LRM-20's. Something to look at depending on how it works is to use 2x LRM-15's w/Artemis. I vaguely recall some mathematical discussions over the TT game that indicated 15's w/Artemis were better than 20's without.

this is the main point here. In order to be most effective as a support mech you need to maintain optimal range the catabult has good maneuverability. Having 2 LRM-15s with Artemis is better then having 2 LRM-20s without. You are firing 10 more missiles but without the added guidance you are not guarenteeing that they will hit.

[OJ191]

Donovan Jenks, on 13 July 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

this is the main point here. In order to be most effective as a support mech you need to maintain optimal range the catabult has good maneuverability. Having 2 LRM-15s with Artemis is better then having 2 LRM-20s without. You are firing 10 more missiles but without the added guidance you are not guarenteeing that they will hit.

IMO optimal scenario would be LRM20's without artemis but with scouts using NARC, or LRM15 with artemis for random matches.

Edited by OJ191, 13 July 2012 - 09:57 AM.