214 replies to this topic

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

Ill play an ACH. You play an assault or heavy. 10 private matches. If you can stop me getting within 90 meters more than one time in ten, ill buy you any pack of your choosing.

If i get a 100% success rate (get within 90m and get you to heatcap), you buy me a pack of my choosing.

and i get to play a streak 6 mad dog right? only need one shot and you will probably be legged.

even if you got within 90m i would just have to alpha once and you would be crippled and thus lose the match.

Edited by Mellifluer, 18 February 2016 - 07:23 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Mellifluer, on 18 February 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

and i get to play a streak 6 mad dog right? only need one shot and you will probably be legged.

Ah ok, valid point. No streaks, lol.

Streaks are also broken, mechs shouldn't have hard counters (which is why NBT bans clan streaks, because the are broken. Like flamers, which will also very likely be banned in all comp leagues in their current form)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 18 February 2016 - 07:23 AM.

[mogs01gt]

So another good reason to make Macro's a banable offense!

Edited by mogs01gt, 18 February 2016 - 07:25 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

mogs01gt, on 18 February 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

So another good reason to make Macro's a banable offense!

lol. Macros are next to impossible to detect, plus a lot of gaming hardware has them included at the hardware level. Making unenforceable rules is idiotic. What they need to do is make a macro not useful for this, by fixing the exploit.

[mogs01gt]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

lol. Macros are next to impossible to detect, plus a lot of gaming hardware has them included at the hardware level. Making unenforceable rules is idiotic. What they need to do is make a macro not useful for this, by fixing the exploit.

So you are saying they cant detect the exploit when its used?? I find that hard to believe.

[sycocys]

Unless people are going to start programming their macros to run a thousand or better commands with humanized timed differences they are very easy to detect.

[Widowmaker1981]

mogs01gt, on 18 February 2016 - 07:32 AM, said:

So you are saying they cant detect the exploit when its used?? I find that hard to believe.

The exploit can be used by simply chainfiring two groups, which they clearly cannot ban you for. A Macro simply allows you to concentrate on other things (like moving and firing other weapons at the heatlocked target)

[Deathlike]

Damia Savon, on 18 February 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

Yes because the game revolves around you comp players..... All bow down to the mighty comp player. Only their opinion matters and everything in the game should cater to their whims.

While it shouldn't entirely run around comp players, comp players do want crappy weapons to not suck, like MGs, LBX, and a host of other useless weapon systems and equipment.

Noone asked for PPCs to be total garbage... they simply wanted lasers to be a viable alternative option, instead of the dominant system of laservomit that we have today. Noone asked for PPCs to be "functional" solely with quirks (you can use it w/o quirks, but it'll limit for far more than lasers will).

You can try to insult people all you want, but misdirecting people while you don't pay attention to what the reality of balance of the game is not our problem... it's your ignorance of the problem.

Edited by Deathlike, 18 February 2016 - 07:56 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Mellifluer, on 18 February 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

i for one welcome our new flamer overlords if what you say is true.
your saying it changed the meta wholesale? forced you to bring different builds and consider different tactics?
what a shocker.
It takes skill and out thinking your opponent to even get within 90m that by definition is not broken.
a broken weapon is a weapon that lets YOU win when YOU have been outsmarted by the opponent, when your enemy OUTPLAYS YOU but YOUR weapons still let you win.

What you say is that good side of current flamer mechanics. Apart from that "forces to" fragment. Forcing anything is not good for variety, obviously. And flamers have potential to competely dominate brawling. A brawler with 1-2 flamers will destroy any other brawler. Hell, even a long range build with sidearm flamers will destroy a brawler without flamers. Generally, if you're not toting gauss/ac5/(lbx/ac)10, or your backward speed is significantly higher than the enemy's forward speed, the only counter to flamers are... flamers. We kinda replicate the ECM problem. It's just too much of an edge for having a thingie that weights 1 ton (or half if clan). With half the current heat generated and without the exploit, flamers would still be useful.

We'll see how Russ's adjustment will influence things when they'll get introduced. Meanwhile, I'm going back to flaming

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 18 February 2016 - 08:08 AM.

[Phra]

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

Yeah that is why literally every competitive team in this game runs close range brawler lights. It's because it's impossible to close distance and if you do it's only because your enemy team is bad.

Get real dude, it's incredibly easy for competent light pilots to get under 100m especially in the middle of a firefight.

There is a "slight" difference between 165/220/270m(+10%) SOFTCAP brawling builds and a 90m HARDCAP one. If your unit is experiencing problems with flamers in competitive drops, well, they are not very competitive to begin with.

Not even mentioning the fact that if the enemy brawling mechs go flamers, they effectively lose out on dps compared to your brawling mechs, making it all that much easier to get cleaned up

Let's deal with the problem once it becomes one, not before.

[Screech]

Probably too busy working on "fixing" MGs next to be concerned with any Flamer issues. If he turn back to address any problems he is worried he will be turned into a pillar of salt. That is the way progress works these days.

[LordKnightFandragon]

So flamers are a new stun lock weapon? OMFG....as if this game needed more ******** *** **** added to it.

Let me guess, stun lock flamers=the fix for PPFLD alphas?

[DrxAbstract]

If this is what they did to Flamers, I can't wait to see the next iteration of Machine Guns...

[KahnWongFuChung]

You people are dimwits I swear Russ does not even get on twitter this was proven on a LinkedIn post he made to another Developer more than likely who your talking to is Tina benoit or one of the PGI under hive.


P.S and I know most don't play MWO or understand it.

Edited by KahnWongFuChung, 18 February 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[Kodyn]

It still surprises me that people expect Russ to be more intelligent than he is. Have you any evidence to cause you to expect him to be?

Yeah...thought not.

[KahnWongFuChung]

It still surprises me that people expect Russ to be more intelligent than he is?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well he must be somewhat smart to have tricked every fool on twitter to believe it is him answering them LOLOLOL.

You all need to get off twitter and make him answer in the town halls that's the only time it really is Russ in person answering any questions.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Okay, this thread and those like it amuse me greatly.

- For the last 3 years or so, I have seen a stupid amount of threads, posts and people complain about how terrible and useless the Flamer is and how it needs to be fixed.
- After 3 years of whining and complaining, PGI *finally* makes some changes to the Flamer and posts those changes several days early...and the forums are *FILLED* people raging about how 'Flamers are still useless crap!'
- Within a day of the changes going live, the forums have now been replaced with 'Flamers OP PLZ NERF!' threads.

As was already mentioned by some folks, PGI gets blasted for ignoring the player base... and they get blasted for listening to it. You can't have it both ways!

Now, from my perspective, I don't see a huge problem with Flamers as they stand:
- They don't inflict damage.
- They don't increase heat by that much unless they're spammed (it seems that at least 4 are needed)
- They will, after about 5 seconds cause the user to accumulate a lot of heat
- The above can be mitigated by chain-firing (I am confused why people see this as a problem, as it plainly states in the game's tool-tips and such to use Chain Fire to mitigate heat buildup)
- No matter how much heat flamers inflict on the target, the target can NOT be shut down.

So, how to beat flamers? Again, the way I see it:
- Don't let a Flamer-equipped mech within 90 meters of you (you shouldn't be face-tanking anyway)
- If you find yourself being overheated by flamers, don't panic.
- Try to reposition yourself closer to your allies (call out what's happening and where; this mostly works if you're not panicking)
- If you cannot reposition yourself and/or find yourself needing to fight back, single-fire low-heat weapons in controlled blasts (as opposed to just shooting blindly).

Now, maybe my views on flamers as a general thing are a bit skewed, I have not run across that many flamer-vomit builds...a couple of flamer-wolfpacks of lights, overran me once and tried to stun-lock me but didn't. Ended up getting killed by other enemies while I was suitably distracted in trying to get those lights off of me.

...and then there's the fact that I tend to run builds that can have are rather heat-efficient (if the heat efficiency is less than 1.3, I consider it running a bit too warm; ideally I prefer something about 1.4 or better) in most cases...and in all but the most heat-efficient builds I have at least 1 Cool Shot module on-hand.

The way I see it, most of the folks complaining here run mechs that are too hot anyway (laser-vomits) and/or don't know how to chain-fire their weapons or make use of anything other than stupid-hot builds.

If just the *thought* of being overrun by a Firestarter or Arctic Cheetah with 2-8 Flamers puts the fear of god into people and causes them to rethink their builds, movement choices and reconsider how they act/interact with their teammates then I for one hope Flamers stay as they are.

[Surn]

Adding flamer macro to help the battle against the OP clan mechs.
Thanks for pointing out exactly what to do in such a sly way... In honor of this, I will name my flamer macro, Macro Rubio.

Edited by MechregSurn, 18 February 2016 - 09:49 AM.

[Ultimax]

Mellifluer, on 18 February 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

and i get to play a streak 6 mad dog right? only need one shot and you will probably be legged.

even if you got within 90m i would just have to alpha once and you would be crippled and thus lose the match.

LOL, you are doing it wrong.

Streak Maddogs and Streak Crows with 2 to 3 flamers - you can be the poster child for horrendously bad balance decisions.

[Lucian Nostra]

Mellifluer, on 18 February 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

and i get to play a streak 6 mad dog right? only need one shot and you will probably be legged.

even if you got within 90m i would just have to alpha once and you would be crippled and thus lose the match.

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Ah ok, valid point. No streaks, lol.

Streaks are also broken, mechs shouldn't have hard counters (which is why NBT bans clan streaks, because the are broken. Like flamers, which will also very likely be banned in all comp leagues in their current form)

Uhm it takes like 3-4 salvos of streaks on a ACH to take it out like that.. so he'd be able to do it to you no problem as flamers take all of.. 2 seconds to heat cap you and you'll get 1 salvo of streaks onto him before he's within 90m